Posted on Jul 16, 2016
How would you accommodate a transgender subordinate in your unit?
85.4K
3.25K
603
694
694
0
Following RAND's study and the one by the Palm Center previous to that, it's clear that there are thousands of transgender people serving right now.
How should the military accommodate these individuals? Should they be allowed to follow the regs of the gender they identify with? Should facilities be assigned by gender, or the physical sex of the service member?
Constructive responses please.
How should the military accommodate these individuals? Should they be allowed to follow the regs of the gender they identify with? Should facilities be assigned by gender, or the physical sex of the service member?
Constructive responses please.
LGBTQ+
Discrimination
Policy
Grooming Standards
Transgender
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 153
367
367
0
It is not the role of the military to accommodate persons who choose to join our institution, it is the role of the individual Soldiers (Sailors, etc.) to conform to the customs and regulations that come with military service. When individuals want to be treated "special" is when they start to lose my support and sympathy.
Ruck up and do your duty, and we will get along smashingly.
Ruck up and do your duty, and we will get along smashingly.
(367)
(0)
1SG (Join to see)
Cpl Kathleen Phippard - Well to be more specific, rules on tattoos have evolved significantly over the many years I've been in, but all services have rules against extremist symbology. I believe they vary over areas of the body that are prohibited at entry to service, and sometimes it is different after you're in. The point of such rules is uniformity and professional appearance. Reasonable people can disagree on this, which is why there are provisions in the wear and appearance regulation, and steps to take for exceptions to policy.
(1)
(0)
SSG Roger Ayscue
SSG Bill McCoy - When the realization that if you are a homely man you will not be a beautiful woman hits home and the invitations to the tea parties don't come.
(2)
(0)
MSgt Karl Hawes
If you start with a bat and two balls and decide to trade them in for a catcher's mitt, you are still a male, no matter what position you want to play.
(5)
(0)
CPL Derrick Grady Sr.
Treat that soldier just like everybody else no different, that soldier have to get muddy and dirty just like all the rest. A soldier sexual orientation does not win them any favorite treatments not while they are serving in the Military and while wearing the uniform. Who really cares what a person Sexual Identity is as long as they can carry their weight and do the work/ job like all the rest of us have done.
(1)
(0)
227
227
0
THIS IS AN ODD QUESTION... "ACCOMMODATIONS"? I would say ABSOLUTELY NO SPECIAL ACCOMMODATIONS should be made at all. IF Trans-genders are capable of serving... And the Army is Hell Bent to have them... Then they put up with, do the job and live in the conditions that their normal comrades do. Born a MALE, wear all the women's clothes you want to but you fall under height/weight, BMI and Physical training standards of a MALE not a FEMALE. It is unfair to have a TG max a PT test because the female test is easier than the male test, when He was a he before he was a she. You want to be treated with the same respect as everyone, then EARN that respect by doing the job WITHOUT any Accommodations... OH, and By the way, get used to BORN FEMALE Soldiers not being comfortable with your penis in the female showers and latrines, NOT wanting to share a room with you and the Male Soldiers feeling the same way, BUT since the rights and wishes of the normal Soldiers does not matter...who gives a shit.
(227)
(0)
PO3 Ronald Davis
SSG Jacey R.
There are TWO SEXES PERIOD,, XX & XY ,, You can't change that,, it is a constant,, until you can change the genetic chromosomes that IS THE REALITY,, Sorry to burst you all's bubble but that's the facts,, so you'll always be a he if you were born that way n you'll always be a she,,
There are TWO SEXES PERIOD,, XX & XY ,, You can't change that,, it is a constant,, until you can change the genetic chromosomes that IS THE REALITY,, Sorry to burst you all's bubble but that's the facts,, so you'll always be a he if you were born that way n you'll always be a she,,
(7)
(0)
PO2 Robert Carrillo
I agree the military (as per Rush Limbaugh) said the military is not the place for social programs, as previously stated 2 sexes only where in the hell did gender come from, next we'll have to accommodate someone who thinks he's a dog, gender identity
(3)
(0)
SFC Lyle Green
Personally/logically, I am confused!? What is the purpose of these shem, memn, u/k or whatever their self-designated title is, being here to be questioned in the first place? As it appears to any opinion of logic, if the physic, attitude, opinion, self-thought of such a strong - conviction that make one choose to deny their original status of gender. More critical is the basic mental mindset of these to totally deny and furiously defend their “flip-flop” impossible to comprehend distortions of reality? I.e., in a combat confrontation ( after all, that’s what the primary reason the military exists to perform) facing a real live situation of life or death and the situation appears to the individual to be dire or hopeless to survive. If they previously made the drastic decision/choice to flip-flop deny their borne undeniable gender that they are, with that phycological, disorder of reasoning, what’s to keep them from suddenly betraying their loyalty to their perceived duty of a U. S. military unit and suddenly become one of the enemy?
(0)
(0)
80
79
1
In my opinion, I think the best way to handle the situation is to implement one standard for everyone regardless of age or gender. That would include both PT and wear and appearance.
(80)
(1)
SGT John Schmelzkopf
The DemaKommies had better win in 2024, or many will see the GreyBar Hotel, we are living in some crazy, interesting times. Law Enforcement and Military have been hit hard with Klown Leadership, Milli Vanilli is a Joke that cost many lives! ObamaDen Admin is Keystone Cops without the Comedy. We have allowed these Klowns to destroy at least 2 Generations with the crazy Masks in Schools, Criminal Activity with no Consequences for the Dirt Bag but Termination, even Prison for our LE's. Self Defence is a Crime, Theft and Mugging is a Right! Child Sexual Mutilation and Indoctrination is the Norm and most people are too cowardly to Protest or openly call it what it is. I have no Problem with a person being Gay in Military as long as they wear Uniform Properly and Show Military Decorum. This Transgender Clownery is ridicules and will destroy our Military, due to present leadership (I say that Jokingly), we are on a very close edge for WWIII. God help us if it happens, many will die as we reshape the Forces to a Fighting Force it once was!
(3)
(0)
SFC Daniel Stewart
That’s what there was in 1996 when I retired, Mr. Stevenson. Did it change on the books?
(0)
(0)
40
40
0
As much as the Army tries, they just don't cover everything. I am sure guidelines are coming, but nobody has to make any battle buddy uncomfortable.
While in Iraq I had a female gunner. Jones was the best damn machine gunner in our unit. Her eyesight was freakish and she could walk a burst in better than I ever could. I would take her over any male in our unit.
We would have patrols lasting 12 hours or more and we all had to piss at some point. Now us guys would just go in a water bottle and chunk it. Jones did not have that option. She had to squat in the middle of bad guy land. We had to keep her safe and give her some type of privacy at the same time.
What we would do is find a wall, the front Humvee would stop right up next to it and we would pull up within 3 feet of the back of the lead. The third Humvee would pull up to the side of the two Humvees, blocking the opening to the exposed side. Jones would unass the turret, run down the hood and jump down in the hole we made for her. She would then put her back on the push bar and squat. She would take care of business and be back in the turret in less than 2 minutes.
My point is. Everything is not in an AR manual. We take care of our people. No matter how they identify themselves it is our responsibility to find a solution that works for everybody. We don't have to wait for the Big Army to decide. We already have the guidance of the Army Values.
While in Iraq I had a female gunner. Jones was the best damn machine gunner in our unit. Her eyesight was freakish and she could walk a burst in better than I ever could. I would take her over any male in our unit.
We would have patrols lasting 12 hours or more and we all had to piss at some point. Now us guys would just go in a water bottle and chunk it. Jones did not have that option. She had to squat in the middle of bad guy land. We had to keep her safe and give her some type of privacy at the same time.
What we would do is find a wall, the front Humvee would stop right up next to it and we would pull up within 3 feet of the back of the lead. The third Humvee would pull up to the side of the two Humvees, blocking the opening to the exposed side. Jones would unass the turret, run down the hood and jump down in the hole we made for her. She would then put her back on the push bar and squat. She would take care of business and be back in the turret in less than 2 minutes.
My point is. Everything is not in an AR manual. We take care of our people. No matter how they identify themselves it is our responsibility to find a solution that works for everybody. We don't have to wait for the Big Army to decide. We already have the guidance of the Army Values.
(40)
(0)
Suspended Profile
Nope. There are ONLY two biological sexes. Stop enabling mentally ill people.
SPC(P) Brandon Jenkins
Then she abides the standards. I’m thinking the OP is how can we best hold soldiers’ hands instead of teaching highly valuable discipline
(0)
(0)
1SG Jason Almond
And that’s the answer, right there.
Key is EVERYONE wanted to make it work.
And you did.
Key is EVERYONE wanted to make it work.
And you did.
(0)
(0)
32
32
0
No accommodations. Do your job in the manner and standard expected and you will receive the same consideration as everyone else.
(32)
(0)
28
28
0
Accomodate? For one the military doesn't accomodate to anyone, work with people, yes, accomodate, no. As far as someone being transgender serving in the Armed forces, their status should be taken into consideration and acknowledged just as any other servicemember should. Find out their strengths and weaknesses and work accordingly just as you would anybody else. Teach them to adapt and overcome obsticles just as you would anyone of your other subordinates. Transgender people are just like anyone else who wears the uniform and should be treated accordingly as well as fairly.
(28)
(0)
Suspended Profile
There should be zero trans in the military. Stop enabling mentally ill people.
SFC Michael Barnett
No you have missed the mark. Those that are born as a male will follow the male standards. The same goes for those that were born female. There are only two standards and nothing more!
(0)
(0)
SPC Stiv ChenRobbins
SGT (Join to see) - I didn't even know they had kosher MREs, though I should have guessed it. I would have hit those in a minute.
(0)
(0)
SGT (Join to see)
I only saw them once, I think they had to be specially ordered. SFC Barnett would probably tell you there are only 2 religions, but I happen to know the military also provides Halal MREs as well. Its a new army indeed despite these Boomers attempts to keep it old and white forever!
(2)
(0)
16
16
0
Until a doctor (via a profile) says their treatment has crossed a threshold to change standards, a transgendered troop should be treated as their entry sex IMO. From that point I would change over as the profile suggested. Upon completion of treatment and movement to a sustaining treatment, I would suggest changing ERB/ORB and basing standards assessments off of the sex of record.
(16)
(0)
SFC Michael Barnett
Even then, they will still have the body structure they were born with. So no changing of the standards they were assigned when born!
(0)
(0)
SPC Jeremy Belanger
This is an interesting point. Scientific data indicates that by two years on hormones, most trans women have lost any most muscle mass usually associated with being born male. This is obviously a median and some may shift earlier or later. But this is an interesting nuisances point.
(1)
(0)
SPC Jeremy Belanger
SFC Michael Barnett for most trans women on hormones, this is not true after approximately 2 years.
(1)
(0)
PO2 Robert Carrillo
There are only 2 SEXES where in the hell did the 1000 genders come from and what is gender? Our idiots in the White House senate and congress and judges have no idea what a woman is, so what does that tell you, homosexuals are going to destroy our nation as it has other nations and kingdoms
(0)
(0)
14
14
0
SSG Patricia King
Lucky for me we are better than ISiS. It's not a question of accommodation but a question of proper treatment of service members based on science and medical fact as well as cultural awareness. Social justice, dignity and respect are not things to be earned, but rights afforded to all Americans.
(8)
(0)
PO3 Edward Riddle
SSG Patricia King - So is Mental Health for all Americans who think they are really the opposite sex.
(2)
(0)
13
13
0
SSG Bill McCoy
PV2 Larry Sellnow - Yes, that's also true, but at least we didn't have to suffer cross-dressers, trannys and the like.
(0)
(0)
Suspended Profile
There should be zero trans in the military. Stop enabling mentally ill people.
SGT Chuck Freiman
Anonymous, there are plenty of mentally ill people in the Army, with different mental illnesses, who are still "good troops". Stop demonizing them.
(0)
(0)
13
13
0
The answers provided don't quite give the range to adaquately answer this question. After the RAND study and DOD study what we will likely see is that hormones, real life experience and time will determine the pace at which professional transition happen. A person can not simply come out and expect to adhere to standards in their target gender. I have been out and serving for 18 months. I could not have adhered to female standards the day I came out. I was not ready nor was the army.
Applying WPATH standards will help to create guidelines but ultimately a person should be held to the standards of their target gender before gender confirming surgeries happen.
Applying WPATH standards will help to create guidelines but ultimately a person should be held to the standards of their target gender before gender confirming surgeries happen.
(13)
(0)
SGT (Join to see)
With the green suit on, we're all the same soldier, and make allowances for each other's comfort. If a male soldier is uncomfortable peeing in public, we all turn around and let him pee in private. If a soldier is injured, they receive care from the next available medic, male or female. Barracks are gender segregated by building or floor when possible, but this is not policy. Only a gender-shared room is guaranteed, so trans soldiers can be roomed alone or together without making extra accommodations. Some things we make allowances for and some things we don't. It shouldn't be any different for a trans soldier.
If there is only one bathroom what do we do? Put a sign on it for M and F and u don't go in if it isn't your letter, even if there's only one female in a unit of 50. If there were a trans soldier, we would put a T on the door too so they could have their privacy too. IMO, there should be a separate policy for T/M and T/F soldiers anytime there is a separate policy for M and F soldiers. Your PT standards should be curved by other T/F soldiers the way female pt standards are curved to other females. Problem solved.
The remaining problem is bathrooms in garrison (assuming a permanent solution is necessary). We don't build separate ADA bathrooms at the units usually, because it would be cost-prohibitive and rarely used, so we install ADA stalls instead. I think policy should be that there are 3 bathrooms - the standard M and F community bathrooms plus a one-person bathroom for everyone else. Make it ADA compatible and put a baby changing table in there and you got all the bases covered.
If there is only one bathroom what do we do? Put a sign on it for M and F and u don't go in if it isn't your letter, even if there's only one female in a unit of 50. If there were a trans soldier, we would put a T on the door too so they could have their privacy too. IMO, there should be a separate policy for T/M and T/F soldiers anytime there is a separate policy for M and F soldiers. Your PT standards should be curved by other T/F soldiers the way female pt standards are curved to other females. Problem solved.
The remaining problem is bathrooms in garrison (assuming a permanent solution is necessary). We don't build separate ADA bathrooms at the units usually, because it would be cost-prohibitive and rarely used, so we install ADA stalls instead. I think policy should be that there are 3 bathrooms - the standard M and F community bathrooms plus a one-person bathroom for everyone else. Make it ADA compatible and put a baby changing table in there and you got all the bases covered.
(0)
(0)
Suspended Profile
There should be zero trans in the military. Stop enabling mentally ill people.
SFC Michael Barnett
Even though someone goes thru the changing of ones private parts, this does not change the original body structure they were born with. No different standards, born male or female.
(1)
(0)
Read This Next
Continue with Facebook 
Continue with Google