Posted on Oct 16, 2016
How would you react to an E2 who "smart mouths" you in formation?
1.85M
16.7K
5.38K
1.5K
1.5K
0
Here's the background. You're a senior E5. Your troops are in formation and you're handing out work for the day. You hand out an assignment to a fresh E2 with less than a year in and only a few months at your command. They blatantly complain and tell you to choose someone else. You calmly tell them they will do this task and they tell you to shove it and give it to someone else. How do you react?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 3697
Really!?? What's the question here?
As Former E-1 Shithead that made E-6, then OSC'd up to 1Lt in Artillery, Armor and finally in attack helicopters I will say this . You follow all lawful orders of your superiors, thus is the military not some mamby pampy civilian job. Discipline is for a reason and not optional. I'm a little tired of hearing all this personnel management bullshit that's invaded and infected the military, leadership is what counts, earned respect of authority is everything, and so are shit assignments sometimes. The snowflakes need to get out and stay out !!!
As Former E-1 Shithead that made E-6, then OSC'd up to 1Lt in Artillery, Armor and finally in attack helicopters I will say this . You follow all lawful orders of your superiors, thus is the military not some mamby pampy civilian job. Discipline is for a reason and not optional. I'm a little tired of hearing all this personnel management bullshit that's invaded and infected the military, leadership is what counts, earned respect of authority is everything, and so are shit assignments sometimes. The snowflakes need to get out and stay out !!!
(0)
(0)
Back in my day he would have been picking his bloody face up off the floor. I'd need to research current regs but that type of disrespect and failure to follow a lawful directive would need to be at least and article 15.
(0)
(0)
Talk to him in private and see if something else is bothering him. If he continues to be defiant you immediately inform your superiors and Company Commander. Demote him to private E-1, and have the M.P.'s take him to jail.
(0)
(0)
SPC Don Wynn
NO! First and foremost you need to establish or re-establish your authority! This cannot be allowed to linger or get in the heads of the other troops in formation. If this were a combat unit, there is no way on God's green earth this could be tolerated for more than the time it took to begin a very loud and one sided, conversation on military regulations and chain of command authority. Followed by further actions in the presence of senior NCOs.
(0)
(0)
Understand I am a Coastie, so terms may differ. First establish control. "Belay that!" Dismiss the rest of the group, ordering the person in question to stand fast. Afterwards, some fan room counseling would be in order. Sometimes discipline can best be handled outside of official channels. Sometimes more official actions are required. On my last unit, I was Electronics LPO and had a problem child. The previous LPO had taken the official route, placing him on report on several occasions. When I reported aboard, I had discussed his situation with the Operations Officer, an O4 who was my direct superior. (Before someone says something yes, there was a more junior officer or rather junior officers assigned as Electronics Officer, but they rotated on a regular basis and stuff like that I went right to the Operations Officer.) After being briefed on the past issues, I said I would like to try and handle this on a more informal basis. We did have a few Fan Room sessions, many sessions of extra instruction, some special work details, etc, but in the end, the CG lost a problem child and gained a squared away sailor.
(0)
(0)
He should get his ass kicked in front of everyone so it's a lesson to all, however with the pussification of todays military most commands or branches wouldn't tolerate it. Glad I'm retired.
(0)
(0)
I never heard of anything like that happening in my day. But that was thirty years ago. Punishment would have been swift
(0)
(0)
When I was a Sgt I'd tell him to step out of the formation, come to the POA and wait. I'd dismiss the platoon, put him in a vehicle and drive to a nice remote place and change his attitude.
(0)
(0)
Is there any reason why folks would question your leadership? If you are a outstanding and upright NCO. Explain again that the detail was a order. And if he didn't want to follow the order. Take him over to the 1st sgt.
But are you in the a grunt unit or admin type unit. That might make a difference
But are you in the a grunt unit or admin type unit. That might make a difference
(0)
(0)
Punish the whole,platoon for his being disrespectful and disobeying a lawful order. The platoon will send the message to do as instructed.
(0)
(0)
As an Old School Marine, I would have the rest of the platoon dismissed to their respective duties while having the PFC stand fast. After the rest leave me and said Shit bird take a trip to the Wash rack because there is NO justifiable reason ANY E2/3 is going to disobey a direct lawful order. This is where blouses come off and said SHIT BIRD get the worst ass beating of his life. If said Shit bird does not see the error of his ways then Shit bird gets a full article 15... in my Marine Corps we don't have the same issues the Army does because MOST Shit birds are weeded out prior to graduation from boot camp. Not saying the Corps doesn't have Shit birds because we did and still do but they're completely differant.
Now if I were in today, the little ray of sunshine would be awarded a bronze star, meritoriously promoted to SFC E7, Given his/her safe space, Legos, play dough and his/her mommy would be brought up to chew me out!!! WHY, because obama completely destroyed our military from the foundation up! Maybe, just maybe President Trump can bring it back from self destruction. I have faith in Secretary of Defense General "Mad Dog" Mattis to make sure it does become UN-FUCKED!
Now if I were in today, the little ray of sunshine would be awarded a bronze star, meritoriously promoted to SFC E7, Given his/her safe space, Legos, play dough and his/her mommy would be brought up to chew me out!!! WHY, because obama completely destroyed our military from the foundation up! Maybe, just maybe President Trump can bring it back from self destruction. I have faith in Secretary of Defense General "Mad Dog" Mattis to make sure it does become UN-FUCKED!
(0)
(0)
Stare at them until they stop and then until they're obviously uncomfortable. Then tell them at this point it would take less time to process them out of your presence than to deal with their bullshit everytime you need them to do something. They should have volunteered to make something out of themselves not to ruin themselves, remind them of this and proceed to an article 15 if necessary.
(0)
(0)
I tell them that they will be performing that task, then remind them how the chain of command works. If that ends up being ineffective, paperwork is always an option.
(0)
(0)
I would have released the formation and had the troop and his compadres stand fast. I would have then marched them to the 1sg office and reported the situation. I wpoukd have asked that formal charges erought against all of them.
(0)
(0)
This is a hard one to respond to... I've read through many responses and see both sides of the fence. Here's my 2 cents.
Following the attacks of 9/11 I had two young male airmen make demands, not requests, but demands that we put them up in billeting because the accommodations afforded them wasn't acceptable. Our base was in the process of shutting down a dorm in bad need of repairs. Following the attacks, and due to the immediate proximity of those dorms to the public road, the residents were given several very good options.
They approached me together in the main hallway of our unit near the CC office and was pushing me, an E-6, to tell the Chief to put them up. Now understand our base billeting was full of pilots forced to land immediately, with no way to get back to home base till the flight restrictions were lifted.... incoming personnel and outgoing personnel suddenly found themselves scrambling for any kind of hotel or off base housing.
I found myself biting my tongue trying to firmly explain to them that their request was not going to be met and they needed to rethink their position. I was seething on the inside as this generation of Airmen were quickly proving to be entitlement minded. What I wanted to say took a backseat to proper response. I had my own neck to think of..... As an NCO, I was taught to not react to the immediate but to asses, then react. Fortunately, our Chief saw what was going on and did back me up. Needless to say once their term of enlistment was up, they left the service.
As my own history, I had another situation where an NCO kept harrasing me. He had no idea what was going on in my immediate life, and yes, I finally snapped one day and blasted him left, right and center.... Was I wrong... Yes. Could I have handled it better, yes....
It is a double edged sword and as a retired NCO, I look back and am so glad we had to go through all that training on how to handle situations such as these. Throat punching, sorry that's not my style. But keeping track of each incident with all proper documentation to include all counseling sessions, yes... Sometimes you can help the one reacting to a negative situation and sometimes you redirect their attitudes....
Today's military has become so different......hopefully, it will become strong again.
Following the attacks of 9/11 I had two young male airmen make demands, not requests, but demands that we put them up in billeting because the accommodations afforded them wasn't acceptable. Our base was in the process of shutting down a dorm in bad need of repairs. Following the attacks, and due to the immediate proximity of those dorms to the public road, the residents were given several very good options.
They approached me together in the main hallway of our unit near the CC office and was pushing me, an E-6, to tell the Chief to put them up. Now understand our base billeting was full of pilots forced to land immediately, with no way to get back to home base till the flight restrictions were lifted.... incoming personnel and outgoing personnel suddenly found themselves scrambling for any kind of hotel or off base housing.
I found myself biting my tongue trying to firmly explain to them that their request was not going to be met and they needed to rethink their position. I was seething on the inside as this generation of Airmen were quickly proving to be entitlement minded. What I wanted to say took a backseat to proper response. I had my own neck to think of..... As an NCO, I was taught to not react to the immediate but to asses, then react. Fortunately, our Chief saw what was going on and did back me up. Needless to say once their term of enlistment was up, they left the service.
As my own history, I had another situation where an NCO kept harrasing me. He had no idea what was going on in my immediate life, and yes, I finally snapped one day and blasted him left, right and center.... Was I wrong... Yes. Could I have handled it better, yes....
It is a double edged sword and as a retired NCO, I look back and am so glad we had to go through all that training on how to handle situations such as these. Throat punching, sorry that's not my style. But keeping track of each incident with all proper documentation to include all counseling sessions, yes... Sometimes you can help the one reacting to a negative situation and sometimes you redirect their attitudes....
Today's military has become so different......hopefully, it will become strong again.
(0)
(0)
Read This Next