Posted on Oct 16, 2016
How would you react to an E2 who "smart mouths" you in formation?
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Here's the background. You're a senior E5. Your troops are in formation and you're handing out work for the day. You hand out an assignment to a fresh E2 with less than a year in and only a few months at your command. They blatantly complain and tell you to choose someone else. You calmly tell them they will do this task and they tell you to shove it and give it to someone else. How do you react?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 3697
Explain that if he wins, no more shitty work details, if I win no more questioning orders. Drop blouse. Roll him up. If you cannot do so let someone else be in charge. The Marine corps runs on prison rules. People respect strength and intelligence. Show the shit bird a great deal of both.
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In the Marine Infantry, LCpl Team Leaders would beat his ass, NCO not needed
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Sgt George Lawrence
Amen, Gunny. But the question is 100% hypothetical ... would never happen in the Corps, at least not when I served (1959-1963 grunt in the FMF, 1978-1980 Reserves but still a grunt).
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GySgt Ken Norwood
In my event mentioned above it was in 1973 and was in 3/2... So in this case it did happen in a grunt unit. The LCpl was a short timer and figured he didn't have to do what anyone told him. Had I let him get away with his actions then the whole platoon would have seen me as a weak leader and I would have been questioned on every order I issued. Fortunately my Company CO and the BN CO supported me 100%.
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As a former Sgt. E-5 during Shield / Storm our training and enforcement was intense and damn sure not what it is today. So if one of my FNG's were to give me any lip in front of my other teams it would happen like this...
Freeze in front private jackass, dismiss the rest of men, turn back to pvt. dumbass and ask him if he was aware that he is an Airborne Trooper?!?! If he is aware that we set the standard?!?! Give him the speech. Let the quiet settle a bit and depending on his reaction either make him aware of the shit we're preping to walk into and why no is not acceptable and make him aware that it won't be tolerated EVER AGAIN. Or I would put him on shit detail at every opportunity constantly reminding him of why no is not tolerated. If that doesn't work then he may just trip and fall a couple of times!!
Freeze in front private jackass, dismiss the rest of men, turn back to pvt. dumbass and ask him if he was aware that he is an Airborne Trooper?!?! If he is aware that we set the standard?!?! Give him the speech. Let the quiet settle a bit and depending on his reaction either make him aware of the shit we're preping to walk into and why no is not acceptable and make him aware that it won't be tolerated EVER AGAIN. Or I would put him on shit detail at every opportunity constantly reminding him of why no is not tolerated. If that doesn't work then he may just trip and fall a couple of times!!
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What did you say to me private!?!? (announced to the entire formation)...Well, since one of "you all's) battle buddy decides NOT to follow instructions, then you all will suffer! The rest will be taken care of.
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GySgt Ken Norwood
As a Admin type you should certainly understand mass punishment is not authorized!
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An order is an order, and is that a Brown Round???? This look more like an updated Boot barracks than my base housing...... Either way, You Follow Orders...
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Although I have never been an E5... I have actually been in this situation.... i was a stupid cocky little E3 and my E6 told me to do something that was just in better words point less to do... and i told him that what he told me to was stupid and that I was not doing it..... 3 hours later after the room was covered in my sweat i learned my lesson and never questioned a SGT again...
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The fact you need to ask that question is a question about your leadership ability as an "E-5."
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Its simple, dismiss everyone else. Take his assignment and give it to his team leader. Take that soldier and give him his new assignments. First pick up every cigerette but in the battalion. Second, dig a fighting hole for each member in his squad. Third recite every general order, last but not least, my personal favorite. Clean every weapon in the arms room to standard. In otherwards, every shit detail that comes out. Put him on it.
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PT AND EXTRA DUTIES EVERY DAY UNTIL THE ERA OF HIS WAYS BECOME CLEAR !! IF THAT FAILS, BRIG UNTIL ENLISTMENT IS UP !!
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This must be dealt with quickly. While some say handle it in private, I can tell you from experience, nothing corrects this faster than punishing the whole squad. Team leader in front with the whole squad in the front leading rest position for awhile while the E2 looks on. Yes it will be corrected that night during lights out.
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Back in the day they would end up with every shit job I could dream up and liberty was in real short supply for them.
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Chain of Command has to be notified of the E-2s actions, if he, or she is refusing to follow orders, it
stands to reason that anything you say to them is going to be ignored, hence possible Captains Mast!
stands to reason that anything you say to them is going to be ignored, hence possible Captains Mast!
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"That's your job. There will be others after you do it. You will not cross the quarterdeck until you complete the job."
In the Navy, aboard a ship, only the CO (commanding officer) could restrict someone to the ship; however, his seniors could assign a reasonable task, and forbid him to leave the ship before the task is completed.
*If* he leaves the ship before it's done, then you've got an instance of UA (AWOL) in addition to the charges of disrespect, dereliction of duty, disobeying, etc. When you send him/her to Captain's Mast (NJP), you've got a bevy of charges sitting on the Skipper's podium - all stemming from one instance of attempted badassery at quarters.
In the Navy, aboard a ship, only the CO (commanding officer) could restrict someone to the ship; however, his seniors could assign a reasonable task, and forbid him to leave the ship before the task is completed.
*If* he leaves the ship before it's done, then you've got an instance of UA (AWOL) in addition to the charges of disrespect, dereliction of duty, disobeying, etc. When you send him/her to Captain's Mast (NJP), you've got a bevy of charges sitting on the Skipper's podium - all stemming from one instance of attempted badassery at quarters.
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PO1 John Watson
There was a time when the shop Chief or LPO held on to the "liberty cards". Upon return to the ship you had to turn in your "liberty card"...... "OK guys let's get this work done so you can hit the beach" "What do you mean you don't want to work seaman" "thats okay you can stay aboard for a few days." "Where are you going , Oh back to work".
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Corrections need to be made immediately & on the spot. If troops you give orders to have something to say, as their leader, you need to let them know that shit don't work that way.
Then you give them a choice -Either they get hot on what you told them to do, or they get written up & lose some money. The choice is theirs.
(If they wanna get physical that's a totally separate issue, which can be taken care of, too, & also results in a write-up, anyway)lol
Then you give them a choice -Either they get hot on what you told them to do, or they get written up & lose some money. The choice is theirs.
(If they wanna get physical that's a totally separate issue, which can be taken care of, too, & also results in a write-up, anyway)lol
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As a Specialist (E4) squad leader in charge of other E4's I have had this problem. It is rather difficult to handle another E4 because in their mind, you are the same. I was put in the position for a reason. Soldier tells me no. I remind soldier that I am in charge and that what I say you have to do. I prepared a counseling and the best part of the counseling is the ~magic bullet~ stating that if these actions persist, that UCMJ actions can be a result. Corrective training has to be related to the infraction and counseling swiftly administered. Detailed and carefully worded so that no loopholes can be found. Some of these soldiers think they are barracks lawyers. Once the corrective actions have been completed close out the counseling with a little "so why did you do it" session. It is important to know your soldiers and place their needs above your own. But at the same regard do not let them walk all over you. I make it a point not to only direct. I direct and actively work along side my soldiers. I feel that is a good way of showing leadership.
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