Posted on Oct 16, 2016
How would you react to an E2 who "smart mouths" you in formation?
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Here's the background. You're a senior E5. Your troops are in formation and you're handing out work for the day. You hand out an assignment to a fresh E2 with less than a year in and only a few months at your command. They blatantly complain and tell you to choose someone else. You calmly tell them they will do this task and they tell you to shove it and give it to someone else. How do you react?
Military bearing
Discipline
Supervisor
Leadership
What Would You Do
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 3697
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Me being a E-1. I know that I would not smart mouth a higher ranking soldier simply for the fact that it is rude and doesn't follow the army values, which I feel really are a key point to being a successful army. If I was that E-5 I would put that soldier in his place and remind him of the rules of respect the Drill Sargents tought us in basic.
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Letter of Reprimand for sure, he or she needs to get the message that even simple sounding work assignments are still orders. I hear tales from friends still on active duty that SO MUCH has changed regarding discipline. Troops are getting soft and disrespectful and this sort of behavior is almost encouraged! Sorry, these types of attitudes and disrespect just don't work in the military. Get out and join the Cub Scouts, NOT the Boy Scouts. You are a danger to others and you should go back to live with mommy.
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This isn't a pie eating contest...this is the military. When you are given a proper order (i.e. an order that is not illegal or inappropriate) you follow it! I'd give him the same choice my dad gave me growing up. You will follow the order ricky tik or there will be consequences and I don't care which you choose!
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March him to a place visible to the formation but too far for talking. Leave him there and get on about your business
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Unless its an Emergency Never ask anyone to do anything you will not do yourself , Go help do the work for a little bit to show them , After one month all my Troops give me 110%, or More, I used DEMOCRATIC Leadership a Lot it makes people feel like part of the TEAM, However if Necessary I could use AUTHORITARIAN and No One wanted to see me in that State of Mind
Different ways to Handle a Situation, the Shit head Correction Officers caused most of the Problems at Twin Rivers Correction Center Monroe WA where I worked for One Year , We got the 6 Bad ones Put out on Coyote Duty around the Outside of the Prison and Things got better for Everyone
Some Situations call for the Best Man to be put in Charge, I was only Promoted 8 years ahead of the People in my Primary of 6 MOS'S Sent in to Fix many Messes, More than Once I had people that out ranked me In the Military Ordered to Work for me Some of them were seen Crying, after the Crisis was Corrected then I moved on
Different ways to Handle a Situation, the Shit head Correction Officers caused most of the Problems at Twin Rivers Correction Center Monroe WA where I worked for One Year , We got the 6 Bad ones Put out on Coyote Duty around the Outside of the Prison and Things got better for Everyone
Some Situations call for the Best Man to be put in Charge, I was only Promoted 8 years ahead of the People in my Primary of 6 MOS'S Sent in to Fix many Messes, More than Once I had people that out ranked me In the Military Ordered to Work for me Some of them were seen Crying, after the Crisis was Corrected then I moved on
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Hard quick direct correction. Gunny hit it on the head. If he remains defiant, thank you for your service have a nice day!
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SFC Retired Walt Troy: Have PFC Dummy research Article 92, UCMJ and pick out his punishment.
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I have dealt with this before. It typically ended with the Soldier and squad dealing with his unfinished detail as well as counseling. Due to the blatant disrespect, I would have recommended a Summarized Article 15. If 1SG wanted to give him/her a second chance, I would work it out so that the Soldier found out when we both met with the 1SG and then as 1SG and I "discussed" the situation have it known that the next instance of this behavior would result in a Company Grade. (Of course this COA would be discussed with 1SG ahead of time.)
On a side note, as a Sergeant (E5) I once had a Soldier tell me he didn't have to do what I told him because his oath of enlistment only required him to obey the officers appointed over him. I informed him that I was a Non-Commissioned OFFICER and I WAS one of those officers appointed over him. I guess he thought he only had to obey commissioned officers. lol
On a side note, as a Sergeant (E5) I once had a Soldier tell me he didn't have to do what I told him because his oath of enlistment only required him to obey the officers appointed over him. I informed him that I was a Non-Commissioned OFFICER and I WAS one of those officers appointed over him. I guess he thought he only had to obey commissioned officers. lol
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I would have him fall out and be escorted back to the command for disciplinary action to follow. The carry on smartly.
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Imagine this. Your a salty lance in the same situation but it's a boot POG Cpl that picked up after the same time with no deployments and he smarts off during mcmap PT while he's being a fat lazy turd and you call him out. And you get kicked out of the marine corps for it. FUSMC. Bunch of sensitive pussies
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When I was a Sgt...in Okinawa... I may or may not have had a smart ass remark thrown my way during a formation. I may or may not have reached across someone and smack someone in the face with my clipboard and offer to meet and discuss in the conference alley between the warehouse after formation. He declined, supposedly, and his peers piled on telling him he was way out of line, I'm guessing... Had another incident where a new L/Cpl, upon meeting one of our MSgts commented...'you're kind of fat for a MSgt aren't you?'.... The MSgt said he was working on it but right now he needed a LCpl for the wash rack where a half dozen PFC's and L/Cpls were washing down aircraft... Every 10 min or so, the MSgt would take away one of the crew...in a few minutes only the loud mouth was washing the bird...After a couple days, it finally dawned on said L/Cpl, whereby he apologized for his rudeness. Two different examples ...either case, civility was restored.
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Years ago at a Joint Training Facility I was advised that a certain E4 acted negatively to what was directed as Joint Command Directives; his response to an E7 was he is a Marine and they do their tastings differently! My response was this - you have two options Marine as I cornered him to the side as not to make an incident even more obvious; you can follow me to the Commanders office where we would summon the Dean of Admissions and they will type your rescinding orders sendind you back to your duty station with a no-go and fail or, you will take orders as given! (And I emphasized that the outgoing process is to notify his command of his failure to follow orders which is an Article 15). His response was a resounding-"No, Sergeant 1st Class I'll do as instructed!"
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Give them the assignment. Then give them the choice, Do the job or report to the first sergeant, on report.
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You must follow all lawful orders period. Have them and they're stand by after formation and lay out the expectations. If they are going to have a hard time follow orders then it's time for an ART-15, counselling or both bottom line is the military is a combat organisation and when the shit hits the fan there's no time for individuals.
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I agree with GySgt Pepper. Nip it in the bud and quickly. Over the years I've learned to hold my tongue in front of others but take them aside and let them know EXACTLY what they were doing wrong and were going to do, no ifs ands , or buts. I made the mistake of talking back to a superior once back in the 80's. He pulled a contract and showed me where I was only guaranteed 1 hour sleep a day and held me to that for nearly 4 months. I had a new understanding at that point. In the end, he admitted he was wrong but for me to talk back in front of others was also wrong. We shook hands and he even commended me on taking it.
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I'm a bit old school before stress cards and women in the infantry (not saying the latter is bad just different then what i was use to). In the words of Major Payne "I'm gonna make you strong". I would smoke that cherry until he couldn't walk, Him and his team leader. Push them to succeed or quit. With that attitude please quit.
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SGT Randall Smith
I'm sorry but what is a stress card? If that is like a time out I wish they had those in the 60's. I put up with a lot of stress in Basic but I learned how to avoid it for the next 2 1/2 years. Look sharp, act sharp and keep your mouth shut if you were not sure what the answer was. That got me through AIT and when I got to Germany it worked for me there too. The 1LT I was assigned to ask if I knew anything about radios. Told him No Sir but would like to learn. So he and Spec 6 Mann taught me to triangulate radio signals and much more. When Spec 6 Mann left for Nam I took his place as a Spc 4. Got sent to radio school. 16 months after enlisting I was a Buck. Sgt E5. I could never under stand the guys in the Army for almost 2 years and still PFC or Spc 4. I wanted the money, respect and did not have to pick up butts. When I got to Nam there was SFC Mann in Bn HQ. Knew a lot of the guys there. When I got to my company my First had been the First in Germany and I knew several of the guys from there. My problem as an NCO was I expected my troops to be strack like I was.
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remind the subordinate where his place is in the chain of command and give his ass some extra duty,
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