Posted on Oct 16, 2016
How would you react to an E2 who "smart mouths" you in formation?
1.85M
16.7K
5.38K
1.5K
1.5K
0
Here's the background. You're a senior E5. Your troops are in formation and you're handing out work for the day. You hand out an assignment to a fresh E2 with less than a year in and only a few months at your command. They blatantly complain and tell you to choose someone else. You calmly tell them they will do this task and they tell you to shove it and give it to someone else. How do you react?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 3697
Counseling, referral up the chain, and, unless we collectively decide they are worth redemption, wave as he or she goes out the gate. Not something we tolerated in the AF since we had no particular need for anyone requiring discipline imposed on them. Individuals needed to be self motivated, trustworthy, and reliable. I'd have taken the time to find out who let him graduate basic and let them know they failed that individual and the Air Force letting that get by them. When I trained and certified a tech and put them on standby to support critical navigational equipment after hours they were directly responsible for insuring aircraft got the guidance necessary to bring a billion dollar aircraft, millions of dollars worth of cargo, and possibly hundreds of Soldiers or Marines to a safe landing. Especially on those a dark and stormy nights.
(0)
(0)
PRIVATE SMART ASS STAND FAST, PLATOON DISMISSED !!! PRIVATE COME WITH ME. (TO THE WOODS) !!!
(0)
(0)
You stop it right away, after a quick come to Jesus in front of all, you have the turd fallout with his Team Leader to your office. You finish up PLT business and have your Senior E-6 take over. Once at your office you speak to the Team Leader first about Private Turd's attitude and what you you expect and the assignment they were given. Give TM LDR a suspense on the work required and then if not completed by PVT Turd, plus a counseling to Turd and one for the TM LDR. If not completed then you push for extra duties and if that fails restrictions then Article 15.
(0)
(0)
One the group is dismissed. I'd take the E-2 to the office for a counseling session.
(0)
(0)
Depends if the platoon leader is a snot bag. I wouldn’t care and have ripped into mine a few times if they are wrong. On the other hand that snot bag is in charge for a reason and 99% of the time I would agree with the snot bag.
(0)
(0)

Suspended Profile
Since I was in the Coast Guard..
E-2 Seaman Apprentice, would be given the options of doing what he/she was told, be restricted to the Ship or Base or finding themselves standing before the Captain or even worse, let the crew in y section know they are being restricted to the base or ship until Seaman Apprentice asswipe, does what is told or expected of him or she...
I was lucky enough to have that experience first hand and I was only a Seaman E-3 at the time..
I was in charge of a duty section and an ass clown refused to work, period...
My Ship was home ported in Guam where the genius decided to go AWOL...
Guam police found the idiots ID card in a planter at the International Airport..
they walked through the airport terminals and found him..
the police contacted the Coast Guard Port Security and he was returned to back to the ship..
the CO gave him 2 months in the Marine Brigg where he cried and promised to be a good little boy.
after 2 weeks of Marines giving him a what for, the CO had him released, felt sorry for him and thinking he would keep his word...
once released he still refused to work.. he lied..
we were going to go to the Philippines in a week and some started talking about having him done in once there..
cost of life, back then $5
I let him know what was going on, he asked how much have they raised..
I said $5, he laughed..
I said, that is what it would take and I donated the first $5..
he stopped laughing..
2 days later he was gone..
apparently he called mommy and daddy in Washington, told them his life was threatened and need to come home..
his parents came up with a BS excuse and he was flown out for an emergency in the family with the help of the Red Cross...
after we got back to Guam the moron was suppose to be there when we arrived, he went AWOL in Washington..
Recruiters went after him, picked him up and couldnt stand the guy..
they put him on the first plane headed towards Guam, it was Hawaii..
once in Hawaii he was met with 2 others and they placed him on a MAC flight to Guam..
once back the CO gave him a full 2 months in the Brigg and reduction in pay..
I had the luxury of picking him up at the Marine hotel hell..
in doing so I was given 14 rounds of Ammo, Colt 1911, set of handcuff's and baton.
when I picked him up in front of the Marines i gave him the option of going handcuffed or not..
he chose not to be handcuffed..
I said good but if you decide to take off I will shoot you...
the look on his face was priceless and the ones the Marines gave was with joy, they couldn't stand the guy either..
Also,i told him another collection has been taken up..
if you wont work or do as your told, you know whats coming...
I lied..
he straightened out his act, he did what he was told...
he had to, we were headed for Vietnam...
E-2 Seaman Apprentice, would be given the options of doing what he/she was told, be restricted to the Ship or Base or finding themselves standing before the Captain or even worse, let the crew in y section know they are being restricted to the base or ship until Seaman Apprentice asswipe, does what is told or expected of him or she...
I was lucky enough to have that experience first hand and I was only a Seaman E-3 at the time..
I was in charge of a duty section and an ass clown refused to work, period...
My Ship was home ported in Guam where the genius decided to go AWOL...
Guam police found the idiots ID card in a planter at the International Airport..
they walked through the airport terminals and found him..
the police contacted the Coast Guard Port Security and he was returned to back to the ship..
the CO gave him 2 months in the Marine Brigg where he cried and promised to be a good little boy.
after 2 weeks of Marines giving him a what for, the CO had him released, felt sorry for him and thinking he would keep his word...
once released he still refused to work.. he lied..
we were going to go to the Philippines in a week and some started talking about having him done in once there..
cost of life, back then $5
I let him know what was going on, he asked how much have they raised..
I said $5, he laughed..
I said, that is what it would take and I donated the first $5..
he stopped laughing..
2 days later he was gone..
apparently he called mommy and daddy in Washington, told them his life was threatened and need to come home..
his parents came up with a BS excuse and he was flown out for an emergency in the family with the help of the Red Cross...
after we got back to Guam the moron was suppose to be there when we arrived, he went AWOL in Washington..
Recruiters went after him, picked him up and couldnt stand the guy..
they put him on the first plane headed towards Guam, it was Hawaii..
once in Hawaii he was met with 2 others and they placed him on a MAC flight to Guam..
once back the CO gave him a full 2 months in the Brigg and reduction in pay..
I had the luxury of picking him up at the Marine hotel hell..
in doing so I was given 14 rounds of Ammo, Colt 1911, set of handcuff's and baton.
when I picked him up in front of the Marines i gave him the option of going handcuffed or not..
he chose not to be handcuffed..
I said good but if you decide to take off I will shoot you...
the look on his face was priceless and the ones the Marines gave was with joy, they couldn't stand the guy either..
Also,i told him another collection has been taken up..
if you wont work or do as your told, you know whats coming...
I lied..
he straightened out his act, he did what he was told...
he had to, we were headed for Vietnam...
Tell that sorry E2 to stand by after formation with the senior E4. In the army, the E4 mafia can be a very powerful tool for leadership when they're on your side... lol. I personally don't like the paperwork route, but will bring that along if the smoke session doesn't resolve the issue. Bringing the E4 along does a number of things. 1: you show him hands on how to handle such issues for when he gets promoted. 2, its an inconvenience to him which will be fuel for the mafia to keep the underlings in line. 3. It covers your ass if the E2 tries to come after you legally. As far as the smoking goes, you gotta play that depending on MET-TC. you can get away with a lot more in some units than others. In my first unit I was counseled after making an E2 do 50 burpees because he was late for the 4th conescutive time to formation. my current unit doesn't care what you do for how long as long as the mission, health and well being of the soldier aren't put at risk.
(0)
(0)
That's easy. As a 2LT I had an E-4 challenge my authority balking my authority over a relatively easy task on the "night shift of an ORI" - this was many years ago. With witnesses present, I gave her a "new task better fitting her attitude". The previous task was checking in new arrivals to the decontamination area. Her new task was cleaning the communal latrine. That was the LAST time I had issue with her AND others present knew not to mess with the L T. Bottom line: if your subordinate with the attitude doesn't like Task A, then assign Task B, Task C, etc and ratchet up the unpleasantness until they get the message. As long as the order is legal, they're obligated to follow.
One more thing, should you have aspirations for Senior NCO status one day, you'll want to learn how to handle this type of situation on the spot! The longer you wait, the more your authority will degrade
One more thing, should you have aspirations for Senior NCO status one day, you'll want to learn how to handle this type of situation on the spot! The longer you wait, the more your authority will degrade
(0)
(0)
its easy, you refer him to charley's chicken farm for failure to follow an indirect order and/or failure to repair. its company level, does not require an Article 15 and if he has problems there, push it up the chain to Batt. While blanket parties might work, get caught doing it and its your ass that will be facing the UCMJ.
(0)
(0)
Platoon attention! Half left face! Front leaning rest position move! In cadience exercise!
(0)
(0)
While I am not a fan of publicly disciplining a soldier, public disrespect deserves public discipline to ensure that others in the formation do not get confused about obeying direct orders. With the limited information provided, I am going to assume that the SM was purposely disrespectful and willfully disobeying a direct order. I would immediately forcefully, loudly, and colorfully address the soldiers blatant disrespect and insubordination. I would have the SM fall out to the front of the formation and begin smoking him. While the SM is performing exercises as a part of his corrective action, I would finish giving out the work for the day and dismiss everyone to their assigned tasks except for a few senior E-4s, whom I would have standby in the vicenity. I would then forcefully, loudly, and colorfully discuss the situation with the SM to get to the root cause of the issue. If there is some sort of horrible life event he is dealing with that I am somehow not yet aware of, I would give the SM the opportunity to perform the assigned task after a sufficient smoke session while still dealing with the consequences of losing his military bearing by having the senior E-4s ensure that the SM will never make the same mistake again through personal attention and corrective training as needed for the next few days. If there has not been some sort of horrible life event, the SM would be smoked until he is ready to complete his assigned tasks. Once the SM is ready to comply, my senior E-4s would accompany the SM to ensure that the task is completed in a satisfactory manner by the SM alone if possible. Once the task is completed I would continue to smoke the SM as a part of my corrective training until the next task needing to be done came up, and I would again assign the SM to perform this new task and have my E-4s accompany him again to ensure that the task is completed in a satisfactory manner. Once the task has been completed I would continue to smoke the SM as a part of my corrective action until the next task that needs to be done came up. This would continue throughout the day. At COB, the SM would not be allowed to stand in formation, but instead, be positioned off to the side to continue being smoked during the formation. This is to ensure that the point is driven home to the rest of SMs that disrespect and insubordination will not be tolerated under my leadership. Once the other SMs have been released for the day, the insubordinate SM would be assigned to clean the Company AO while I stayed to supervise to ensure that the tasks are completed in a timely and satisfactory manner. Once the company AO has been thouroughly cleaned, I would instruct the SM to immediately begin working on a 2000 word report about Military discipline, the effects of insubordination and disrespect toward leadership in the military, and applicable military laws and potential punishments under military law for the SMs actions. I would instruct the SM to write the essay in APA format with proper citations of all material used to compile his report. I would then release the SM for the evening with instructions to report for duty 2 hours prior to first formation everyday until he has completed his report to my satisfaction. The SM would further be instructed that he will report to me the following day with an outline of his report as soon as he showed up to the company AO as I would be there to meet him for his report time. The SM would be instructed to bring his work with him every morning to show his progress and receive guidance from me on his report. The SM would be further instructed to not leave base if he resides on post with his family until the report is completed. If the SM lives in the barracks, the SM would not be allowed to leave the battalion area without being escorted by an E-4 or above and would not be allowed off base because he can no longer be trusted to hold military bearing until he completes his report to my satisfaction. I would instruct the E-4s in his platoon to ensure that the SM complies with all of my instructions regarding his restriction to the battalion AO without an E-4 or above escorting him. I would also ask them to assist the SM in relearning his military bearing and to mentoring him. If the SMs behavior continues despite my attempts at corrective action, I would then begin paperwork, but this would be my last resort.
(0)
(0)
SGT Robert Marinez
I left out that if this incident was related to a horrible life event, I would obviously help the SM navigate the event the appropriate way and through the appropriate channels until the life event situation is resolved.
(0)
(0)
Personally, I’d want to beat his ass, but that can’t occur, so, I’d take him aside and give him a verbal warning, if the attitude continued then a written warning & if it still continued, up the chain of command for more severe punishment.
(0)
(0)
Nip that in the ass..... Old fashioned smoking would change his tune....
Though nowadays, seems to me that the new privates get away with way to much now. Don't ask why they don't want to do it. It was a freaking order for him to do the job, period. Whether he likes it or not..... not like it was unlawful for Christ's sake.
Though nowadays, seems to me that the new privates get away with way to much now. Don't ask why they don't want to do it. It was a freaking order for him to do the job, period. Whether he likes it or not..... not like it was unlawful for Christ's sake.
(0)
(0)
PO1 George Martin,
I cannot speak on behalf of the other branches of service. But with that said, I have a good idea what they would do. And it would not be good for the E-2.
I served in the U.S. Marine Corps 1978 - 1981 and with all three segments of the United States Army, i.e., U.S. Army 1981-1985 / 1987-1991 (Desert Storm Veteran), Ohio Army National Guard 1991-1999 and U.S. Army Reserve 1985-1987 / 1999-2010 (Retired).
All I can say is, back in the day, “I would not want to be in his boots for the next two weeks.” Beginning right after that formation. Hell week in Basic Training wouldn’t begin to touch what this E-2 was about to experience. Especially.... in the U.S. Marine Corps and the U.S. Army.
In my day concerning the USMC after formation, this E-2 would been instructed to stand fast. The Assistant Squad Leader (Gunner) in Field Artillery 0811, would have been instructed to carry on with the rest of the section and follow through with the orders of the day. Then Gunny an E-7 and the Sgt an E-5 would begin. They would be all up in this E-2’s face. Then the First Sergent E-8 takes over. After a counseling, this E-2 would belong to (TOP) for the next two weeks. The E-2 would have have been ordered to scrub floors, wax and buff the floors, clean toilets, clean the units weapons in the arms room with an inspection per each weapon, emptying trash cans, painting the orderly room, emptying the oil pans in the Motor Pool, picking up trash in the Battalion Area, painting rocks in the (Btry Area), put on every nasty detail you could imagine, mandated to endure inspection after inspection of himself, his room, his field gear and his equipment. He would also be ordered to go on a 10 mile road march every morning at 0400hrs with a 40lb full ruck pack, webb gear, weapon and helmet, accompanied by an NCO. How do you think each NCO felt about being ordered to march with this insubordinate E-2 throughout the next two weeks? 14 straight days to include Saturday and Sunday? This E-2 would be ordered to empty trash and do the nasty details at the Mess Hall as well. The E-2 would also be ordered to do extra P.T. during his lunch and after liberty, accompanied by an NCO. That’s just the beginning.
After enforcing those two weeks of unofficial punishment via details, then comes the....Company Grade Article 15 administered by the Btry Commander (Skipper). The E-2 would receive an official two weeks of extra duty. To include in the Article 15,....Restricted to the Barracks, except the Mess Hall and Chapel and (One Weeks Pay) taken out. Hardcore Semper Fi!
In my day, early.....in the U.S. Army, that E-2 probably would receive most of that mentioned above but would have been sent to CCF. They used to tack that on to an Article 15 for one week for the most extreme cases in the Army. The Correctional Custody Facility, where they ran P.T. with a telephone pole at 0400hrs, not counting everything else they were ordered to do at CCF.
Then....once back from CCF, a group of NCO’s chose by the First Sergeant would have been selected to give instruction to this E-2 concerning personal motivation. Behind Closed Doors. I doubt the E-2 would ever disobey a lawful order given to him again. Especially, if this E-2 had to serve in some of the units I served in during the late 70’s and early 80’s. Memories. Hooah!
My how times have changed. For the most part, they have changed for the good. I bet many are glad this is 2019, instead of 1978, or 1981. There is no explanation as to what this E-2 could say. Disrespect, Failure to Repair, Failure to follow orders, Disobeying a Lawful Order Article 92, that’s just for starters. Now, if the E-2 had some mental health issue or serious personal issue(s), I assume that would be exposed and handled in house. But the UCMJ should be implemented in some form. For good order and discipline.
I cannot speak on behalf of the other branches of service. But with that said, I have a good idea what they would do. And it would not be good for the E-2.
I served in the U.S. Marine Corps 1978 - 1981 and with all three segments of the United States Army, i.e., U.S. Army 1981-1985 / 1987-1991 (Desert Storm Veteran), Ohio Army National Guard 1991-1999 and U.S. Army Reserve 1985-1987 / 1999-2010 (Retired).
All I can say is, back in the day, “I would not want to be in his boots for the next two weeks.” Beginning right after that formation. Hell week in Basic Training wouldn’t begin to touch what this E-2 was about to experience. Especially.... in the U.S. Marine Corps and the U.S. Army.
In my day concerning the USMC after formation, this E-2 would been instructed to stand fast. The Assistant Squad Leader (Gunner) in Field Artillery 0811, would have been instructed to carry on with the rest of the section and follow through with the orders of the day. Then Gunny an E-7 and the Sgt an E-5 would begin. They would be all up in this E-2’s face. Then the First Sergent E-8 takes over. After a counseling, this E-2 would belong to (TOP) for the next two weeks. The E-2 would have have been ordered to scrub floors, wax and buff the floors, clean toilets, clean the units weapons in the arms room with an inspection per each weapon, emptying trash cans, painting the orderly room, emptying the oil pans in the Motor Pool, picking up trash in the Battalion Area, painting rocks in the (Btry Area), put on every nasty detail you could imagine, mandated to endure inspection after inspection of himself, his room, his field gear and his equipment. He would also be ordered to go on a 10 mile road march every morning at 0400hrs with a 40lb full ruck pack, webb gear, weapon and helmet, accompanied by an NCO. How do you think each NCO felt about being ordered to march with this insubordinate E-2 throughout the next two weeks? 14 straight days to include Saturday and Sunday? This E-2 would be ordered to empty trash and do the nasty details at the Mess Hall as well. The E-2 would also be ordered to do extra P.T. during his lunch and after liberty, accompanied by an NCO. That’s just the beginning.
After enforcing those two weeks of unofficial punishment via details, then comes the....Company Grade Article 15 administered by the Btry Commander (Skipper). The E-2 would receive an official two weeks of extra duty. To include in the Article 15,....Restricted to the Barracks, except the Mess Hall and Chapel and (One Weeks Pay) taken out. Hardcore Semper Fi!
In my day, early.....in the U.S. Army, that E-2 probably would receive most of that mentioned above but would have been sent to CCF. They used to tack that on to an Article 15 for one week for the most extreme cases in the Army. The Correctional Custody Facility, where they ran P.T. with a telephone pole at 0400hrs, not counting everything else they were ordered to do at CCF.
Then....once back from CCF, a group of NCO’s chose by the First Sergeant would have been selected to give instruction to this E-2 concerning personal motivation. Behind Closed Doors. I doubt the E-2 would ever disobey a lawful order given to him again. Especially, if this E-2 had to serve in some of the units I served in during the late 70’s and early 80’s. Memories. Hooah!
My how times have changed. For the most part, they have changed for the good. I bet many are glad this is 2019, instead of 1978, or 1981. There is no explanation as to what this E-2 could say. Disrespect, Failure to Repair, Failure to follow orders, Disobeying a Lawful Order Article 92, that’s just for starters. Now, if the E-2 had some mental health issue or serious personal issue(s), I assume that would be exposed and handled in house. But the UCMJ should be implemented in some form. For good order and discipline.
(0)
(0)
First and foremost, before a scuffing from heck, you calmly write a counseling recording the privates actions. This may seem "new army" but when this attitude continues a pattern can be shown to chapter him out. Then we go get our camelbaks and have some fun.
(0)
(0)
Read This Next