Posted on Oct 16, 2016
How would you react to an E2 who "smart mouths" you in formation?
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Here's the background. You're a senior E5. Your troops are in formation and you're handing out work for the day. You hand out an assignment to a fresh E2 with less than a year in and only a few months at your command. They blatantly complain and tell you to choose someone else. You calmly tell them they will do this task and they tell you to shove it and give it to someone else. How do you react?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 3697
Back in the 70’s we had conex counseling for these types of situations. One trio behind the conex and your attitude was changed permently. With all the snowflakes today, maybe it’s time to brink that type of motivational practice back.
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Depends on what decade. 1980's lay him the fuck out with a good punch and inform him as to the error of his ways as he is laying on the ground. Now a days I guess charge him with disrespect and start a paper trail. One punch did me a world of good 30 years ago, But times have changed.
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A two week "visit" at Charlie's Chicken Farm does wonders for attitude adjustments.
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Let's see here......Most American kids since the 1990s have been brought-up in homes where there is no discipline, no value systems taught, NO RESPECT, no accountability and no REAL Role Models. The school systems & media in this country then perpetuate this with all of their "flowery touchy-feely don't offend or traumatize the kid" crapolla that gives the green light for students / young people to do & say what they like without any consequences (with the exception of saying the word: "Gun or fashioning a Pop-Tart to look like a pistol" which results in everybody running around like Chicken-Littles that results in the kid getting kicked-out of school with a felony record and / or ending up in prison). PLUS.....and I know this might "offend some here".... but today's culture in the USA glamorizes and glorifies the gang-banger culture and everything that it stands at every level & facet of culture & society which also includes bashing and demonizing anyone or anything that represents Law Enforcement and Military ie "Structured Environments and Career Fields" that require being a Disciplined Professional. So in-light of what I stated...Do The Math. We now live in a country where society / culture dictates that the student is smarter than the Teacher and the recruit is more experienced than the Drill Sergeant.
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In the old days it would be a wall-to-wall "counseling" session, with the high possibility that he would require a visit to the base clinic, afterwards.
But today I would still not tolerate the disrespect, or the refusal to follow orders. I would make it clear that he didn't have an option, and if he continued to refuse to obey orders he could count on an Article 15, kiss his single stripe goodbye, and I MIGHT be kind enough to let him call his future dependapotomus and tell her that he would not be able to come visit her for the next 2-4 weeks, because he's going to be on extra duty until he readjusted his attitude.
But today I would still not tolerate the disrespect, or the refusal to follow orders. I would make it clear that he didn't have an option, and if he continued to refuse to obey orders he could count on an Article 15, kiss his single stripe goodbye, and I MIGHT be kind enough to let him call his future dependapotomus and tell her that he would not be able to come visit her for the next 2-4 weeks, because he's going to be on extra duty until he readjusted his attitude.
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Drop him and make him the first for extra duty until he shuts up. After that, kick him to HHB where they can put him on the gate or in the kitchen permanently.
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Personally, I've always like Sun Tzu's method -- first, be sure the soldier understood the order. Second, once you are sure the soldier understands, if they still refuse to obey -- summary execution. (sigh) Those were the days!
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Give the Team leader the opportunity to resolve the issue, then the Squad leader. If not, it's up to the PSG to make the choice, Court Martial or watch the platoon implode. just my old timers humble opinion.
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A swift throat punch should solve the problem. If the PV2 still remains recalcitrant, keep them square in the nuts...or camel toe
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I would simply tell them. If you can't make it in the billion dollar military system, I will make it my mission to make sure you make it in the million dollar prison system. This is not a democracy, that's what you are defending, however...you are defending it through a dictatorship....and that would be though me and under the people I represent up the food chain...don't test the system, you'll lose
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Mopp level 4.. running back and fourth from the barracks from level 1 to 4.. bet E2 won’t say anything after that.
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You have not given us enough information to give a true answer:
Have you given this soldier this item to do, exclusively, for months and maybe they are just tired of that specific job, and would like to do a different one for a change of pace?
IS he brand new to the army? Or is he an E-2, because he just fucked up and the boss dropped a grade or two?
What was the job? and what was his MOS?
Has he recently had something happen like divorce, death int he family, etc and is maybe acting out because he doesn't know how to handle that emotion?
Have you given this soldier this item to do, exclusively, for months and maybe they are just tired of that specific job, and would like to do a different one for a change of pace?
IS he brand new to the army? Or is he an E-2, because he just fucked up and the boss dropped a grade or two?
What was the job? and what was his MOS?
Has he recently had something happen like divorce, death int he family, etc and is maybe acting out because he doesn't know how to handle that emotion?
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I would have his immediate supervisor stay and discuss your expectations and have his supervisor watch his private do the work. If there is a behavior modification program, have the supervisor escort him there for extra training. Now another corrective action is reduction of rank. and back it up with an Art 15.
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We had a recurrent problem with one guy... I'll call him "mouth". PV2 Mouth showed up and made dumbass comments to SPC Oldtimer. SPC Oldtimer attempted to redress the situation by telling PV2 Mouth he was fucked up. SSG Hobotheclown didn't like SPC Oldtimer. He didn't back up SPC Oldtimer. PV2 Mouth did whatever he fuckin wanted. SPC Oldtimer lost face. Later SPC Oldtimer is a gun team leader. He needs to get his team trained on the M240L, do room inspections on his 3 subordinates PFC Nerd PFC Bigcountry and PVT Newdick, and assossiates team leader tasks - getting people places on time with the right stuff etc. Now PFC Mouth has made rank +1. He is a bad influence on PVT Newguy. PVT Newguy shows up late to work, gets smoked. SSG Hobotheclown thinks SPC Oldtimer shouldn't be a team leader and constantly undermines him whenever catching PFC newdick running his mouth instead of working. PVT Newdick blows off whatever SPC Oldtimer says because he knows SSG Hobotheclown never backs him up. PVT Newdick does drugs because he thinks the Army is bullshit. PFC Nerd hates his life because he has to do the shit details that now ranked up SPC Mouth is shamming, so he transfers to Battalion Scout Platoon. SSG Hobotheclown gets out and does steroids and bangs hookers until his dick falls off. SPC Oldtimer and PFC Bigcountry are stuck with all the work. PFC Bigcountry decides not to re-up because he doesn't want to do all the shit details. SPC Oldtimer, sick of the fucking motor-pool, drops a Green-to-Gold packet because he realizes he's wasting his fucking time. Now SPCNerd goes for a deployment, gets jacked, becomes a CPL team leader. He wonders if he should stay in; he still needs to do BLC. He is outranked by time-in-grade SGT Mouth, who is still a piece of shit.
True story.
This is today's Army. DISCIPLINE THE SMART ASS KIDS. PT THEM UNTIL THEY CRY.
True story.
This is today's Army. DISCIPLINE THE SMART ASS KIDS. PT THEM UNTIL THEY CRY.
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We had a recurrent problem with one guy... I'll call him "mouth". PV2 Mouth showed up and made dumbass comments to SPC Oldtimer. SPC Oldtimer attempted to redress the situation by telling PV2 Mouth he was fucked up. SSG Hobotheclown didn't like SPC Oldtimer. He didn't back up SPC Oldtimer. PV2 Mouth lost face. Later SPC Oldtimer is a team leader. He needs to get his team trained on the M240L, do room inspections on his 3 subordinates PFC Nerd PFC Bigcountry and PVT Newdick. PFC Mouth has made rank +1. He is a bad influence on PVT Newguy. PVT Newguy shows up late to work, gets smoked. SSG Hobotheclown thinks SPC Oldtimer shouldn't be a team leader and constantly undermines him whenever catching PFC newdick running his mouth instead of working. PVT Newdick blows off whatever SPC Oldtimer says because he knows SSG Hobotheclown never backs him up. PVT Newdick does drugs because he realizes the Army is bullshit. PFC Nerd hates his life because he has to do the shit details that now ranked up SPC Mouth is shamming, so he transfers to Battalion Scout Platoon. SSG Hobotheclown gets out and does steroids and bangs hookers until his dick falls off. SPC Oldtimer and PFC Bigcountry are stuck with all the work. PFC Bigcountry decides not to re-up because he doesn't want to do all the shit details. SPC Oldtimer, sick of the fucking motor-pool, drops a Green-to-Gold packet because he realizes he's wasting his fucking time. Now SPCNerd goes for a deployment, gets jacked, becomes a CPL team leader. He wonders if he should stay in; he still needs to do BLC. He is outranked by time-in-grade SGT Mouth, who is still a piece of shit.
True story.
True story.
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not the right answer, but back in my day, some body was getting their ass beat in my office no witnesses.
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SFC Leo Augustin
believe it or not the ones i had to discipline with a ass beating turned out to be my best soldiers. they just needed a reminder as to who was in charge, after that they were good to go.
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As a 1SG, this happened to me....believe me- I’m the type who would normally go pretty ballistic on open disrespect. I’d embarrass him the way he just tried to embarrass me.
However, in this particular morning, I was having an outstanding day. Really. I was in an excellent mood and things were going well. I’m going over the detail roster and when I tell PVT X that he had mowing duty, he replied, “why don’t you do it?”
I smiled, laughed a little and I said, “SSG Y, let me know when private X has completed all latrines, hallways, trash receptacles and all mowing- front and back. Let me know your recommendation for ART 15- extra duty-demotion- or both in the counseling. If you need additional supervision for him while you write the counseling- pull from his team as you see fit. Everyone else will meet me at the gym at 9 for a dodgeball tournament. Any questions? Outstanding. Fallout.”
However, in this particular morning, I was having an outstanding day. Really. I was in an excellent mood and things were going well. I’m going over the detail roster and when I tell PVT X that he had mowing duty, he replied, “why don’t you do it?”
I smiled, laughed a little and I said, “SSG Y, let me know when private X has completed all latrines, hallways, trash receptacles and all mowing- front and back. Let me know your recommendation for ART 15- extra duty-demotion- or both in the counseling. If you need additional supervision for him while you write the counseling- pull from his team as you see fit. Everyone else will meet me at the gym at 9 for a dodgeball tournament. Any questions? Outstanding. Fallout.”
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I will echo most of the commenters here: Immediate action is needed! This Private (or Airman or Seaman, etc) and the rest of his bretheren know exactly their place or they would've never had passed bootcamp. They are fully aware of, not only how to follow orders, but to seek help from the Chaplain when their emotional health is in need of some relief.
The first thing I recommend is to dismiss his/her entire Platoon and keep his squad leader or your 2d in command and mop the floor with him/her. Discipline instills morale and good order.
The first thing I recommend is to dismiss his/her entire Platoon and keep his squad leader or your 2d in command and mop the floor with him/her. Discipline instills morale and good order.
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Fall out to the side, and I'll get to you in a few minutes. Take them to see the 1SG, and get this straight in a quick hurry. Counsel, RBI, restriction and probably extra duty that weekend.
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Push ups in front of formation, barracks duty
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