Posted on Oct 16, 2016
How would you react to an E2 who "smart mouths" you in formation?
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Here's the background. You're a senior E5. Your troops are in formation and you're handing out work for the day. You hand out an assignment to a fresh E2 with less than a year in and only a few months at your command. They blatantly complain and tell you to choose someone else. You calmly tell them they will do this task and they tell you to shove it and give it to someone else. How do you react?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 3697
You know you are asking this question of an old vet who took basic in 1960, Right? Have any of you young guys ever heard of a blue room? When you find out what a blue room is/was you will know that the next time I need something done I will stand real close to that E-2 and ask for volunteers. Want to bet a picture of beer he volunteers within a matter of seconds? I did have a guy refuse to stand a listening post one night in Vietnam. He told me that Jesus told him to quit fighting. I told him to get Jesus to stand the post with him or go to jail. He got four years in Leavenworth. Don't know if Jesus visited him. Soldier/Cop/Grunt, Retired
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Simple. EMI (Extra Military Instruction. If they still have such a thing). In other words, shitbird duty.
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Using the chain of command, this individual must be quickly punished for insubordination, to include extra duty and restriction
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He [they] would't get off KP for a while.......MOS would change......Article 15.....Underseriable
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They?!?!
THEY would all be dealing with UCMJ actions, period. THEY would all be receiving extra duty, THEY would all be in front of the Chain of Command.
I know most subordinates would probably say "I don't really have anything on my collar to lose", but they forget the one thing you have plenty of...THEIR TIME to utilize from End-of-Day formation until 23:30 hrs once UCMJ is imposed.
However, there is one thing that is left out of this scenario...does this senior E5 goes out, drinks and party with these subordinates on a regular basis? If he does, then he's the Tip of the problem. If he's just a nice guy then he needs to grow a pair and use his Authoritative Command and Command of Execution...plain and simple.
THEY would all be dealing with UCMJ actions, period. THEY would all be receiving extra duty, THEY would all be in front of the Chain of Command.
I know most subordinates would probably say "I don't really have anything on my collar to lose", but they forget the one thing you have plenty of...THEIR TIME to utilize from End-of-Day formation until 23:30 hrs once UCMJ is imposed.
However, there is one thing that is left out of this scenario...does this senior E5 goes out, drinks and party with these subordinates on a regular basis? If he does, then he's the Tip of the problem. If he's just a nice guy then he needs to grow a pair and use his Authoritative Command and Command of Execution...plain and simple.
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Assign the remainder to their duties, then take the offending soldier out and give him one hell of a beasting!
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While I agree with the term praise in public punish in private, an example must be set. Stand your ground. As an NCO WE are the backbone of the Army. We know our soldiers... that being said. I would go back to the front of formation and address the entire group. Explain to them that when a task is being it will be done, (I'm in the army so I will use that as an example) we are in the Army and are here on a voluntary basis. Our predecessors did not have that option (join or go to jail) when you choose to not follow orders you are choosing the fate of your career. I have been tasked with delegating assignments and will assign them accordingly. Look directly at the idiot that feels the need to mouth off and say "as a PV2 that has been in the Army for less a year (compared my multiple years of experience and service), if you feel you can do a better job, then why don't you come up here and do so. I will be happy to give you may rank, title and everything that goes with it. Now that being said if a direct is order is giving to you your job is to follow it. If you have an issue with it take it up with your first line later. Last I checked it says US Army over my heart, you volunteer to be here , meaning we all have jobs to do. If you don't want to be here then I will be happy to bring you up the chain of command and "request discharge" and smile politely. Now you were given your walking orders when I give word you will move out and do as ordered. PV2, you and your 1st line will stand fast and we will be taking this matter up directly. Failure to comply with these orders will result in taking further actions. Have I made myself clear?
Have them fall out and go to an area so that you and the PV2 and first line can discuss the appropriate actions. A counseling statement for insubordination is your first course of action. Follow whatever steps necessary after that.
Have them fall out and go to an area so that you and the PV2 and first line can discuss the appropriate actions. A counseling statement for insubordination is your first course of action. Follow whatever steps necessary after that.
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SPC Jay Crawford
Sorry, praise in public criticize in private only applies if the problem did not occur in public. If you are challenged in public it needs to be answered that way, otherwise the only instruction that will come out to the rest of the troops is the version that the E-2 gives and you can bet it will make him look like a hero rather than a punk. If you are not in combat area a simple Article 15, reduction in rank and mustering out will be fine. In combat, jail.
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SFC Cheri Kelley Miller
SPC Jay Crawford exactly why I would handle the way I stated above. Like I said, while I agree with the "punish in private, praise in public" concept I think an example needs to be set. When you become an NCO you tend to learn how best to handle different situations. This being one of them.
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SSG Christopher Conklin
This way I always treated my E - 4 and below. It the way treated people I, work with on daily base. That's how I want to ne treated too.
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Just reading this clear act of insubordination causes me to melt down. Granted it’s been years since I served in the Army (1964-67). I’m now a senior but I just can not imagine refusing an assignment from a superior let alone tellingly them to shove it. How would this Private act during a combat situation?
After reading this and other stories from whining troops I just shake my head in disgust. Today’s politically correct, kinder and gentler military needs to shape up and get back to basics, which is combat readiness, accomplishing the mission assigned, discipline esprit de corps.
You are not in the Girl Scouts people you are in the military service. You enlisted. Shut up, follow orders, work hard and learn all you can as if your life depended on it. Because it does.
After reading this and other stories from whining troops I just shake my head in disgust. Today’s politically correct, kinder and gentler military needs to shape up and get back to basics, which is combat readiness, accomplishing the mission assigned, discipline esprit de corps.
You are not in the Girl Scouts people you are in the military service. You enlisted. Shut up, follow orders, work hard and learn all you can as if your life depended on it. Because it does.
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Stick my foot up his ass. Did it many times while servicing 1976-1999. The issues of today are due to the spineless CSMs.
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