Posted on Oct 16, 2016
How would you react to an E2 who "smart mouths" you in formation?
1.85M
16.7K
5.38K
1.5K
1.5K
0
Here's the background. You're a senior E5. Your troops are in formation and you're handing out work for the day. You hand out an assignment to a fresh E2 with less than a year in and only a few months at your command. They blatantly complain and tell you to choose someone else. You calmly tell them they will do this task and they tell you to shove it and give it to someone else. How do you react?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 3697
Asschewing with ninja chop hand in his face. If that doesnt work take him to the treeline for proper asswhouping? Is that still an option these days?
(0)
(0)
I'm a little late to this party, but, here's my thoughts: Very rarely does the standard slip with just one member of a platoon. That's all this is, is a slip in where the standard is thought to be at, so all we have to do is put the standard for the platoon back where it needs to be. And the very first place that the standard normally slips, is in the barracks. (You didn't state whether they were remarried, so I'd assume they live there). So, what I,d do is. make an on the spot correction of the PFC. I publicly put them on blast. Regardless of what's happening at home, you're a Sgt, you either command respect or get busted down to where you belong. So, blast them, in front of the whole platoon. Once the platoon is dismissed, grab his corporal, have his corporal talk to him to make sure there's nothing weird, ie, getting cheated on, death in the family, etc, and report that directly to you. Regardless of the answer, either take care of his personal situation if there is one, or just act like nothing happened at all. Then, it's Thursday now. Field day. So, at the field day formation, once the company is dismissed, put the platoon in formation, at attention. Explain that in no uncertain terms, the standard has slipped in your platoon, and you are going to correct it. And carry out Chinese field day. Every piece of furniture is pulled out of the room and scrubbed till it's spotless. The room is scrubbed, until it's spotless. Then you inspect. Generally, the Marines that I already know are pretty squared away get off with a slightly lighter inspection, but pvt shitbag and all of his turd friends get the full on inspection. Any rooms with a hit, will be reinspected the next day after work, after a formation for just the failure turds. And you keep reinspecting them until the rooms all pass flawlessly. This makes the standard for conduct within the platoon very clear for all to see. H onestky not sure how you made it to senior E5 and can't deal with an e2
(0)
(0)
Total insubordination. Apparently, he didn't learn any military rules in Basic Training.
(0)
(0)
I would find the nastiest painful work detail and put them on it, and I would have made an example of them and give the rest of the formation something to think about. Their is no explaining what is expected of them. They learned that in Boot Camp. Back then we didn't give people discharges to people who decided that was a way to get out of the service. They served their time in the brig. I was in the Corp from 59-63 We had a lot experienced NCO,s from WWII and Korea back Then Semper Fi.
(0)
(0)
Article 15 seems warranted to me. I like Gunny's dress down too, but think an Article 15 might more tangibly amplify the point.
(0)
(0)
IN 1964, I WOULD HAVE KNOCKED HIM DOWN AND EARNED HIS FEAR, IF NOT RESPECT. IN COMBAT IN THE LATER 60'S I SAW PEOPLE FOLLOW ORDERS BECAUSE THEY WERE TAUGHT A SARGENT WAS GOD. I PERSONALLY SAW LIVES SAVED BECAUSE OF THAT. TODAY, BRING THEM UP ON CHARGES OR RIST LOST OF RESPECT BY THE OTHER MEN. BRIG TIME MAY NOT WORK BUT THEY KNOW WHERE THEY STAND. IN COMBAT KILL THEM BEFORE YOU AND OTHERS ARE KILLED. I WAS NOT A LIFER BUT SERVED IN NAM FROM JUNE 65 -APRIL 68. I LEFT BECAUSE I WAS TIRED OF KILLING AND NOT UNDERSTANDING WHY.
(0)
(0)
Dismiss the formation. PV2 gets into PT gear because obviously they need some energy worked out for at least 8 hours. Babysitting is our job!
(0)
(0)
Find out why this is happening. Could be a leadership issue. Most want to do what is right but toxic command climates can create issues. Counsel and figure out what's going on. Could be a safety related issue. I witnessed leaders tell soldiers to operate tactical vehicles without proper training. Very bad
(0)
(0)
You know you are asking this question of an old vet who took basic in 1960, Right? Have any of you young guys ever heard of a blue room? When you find out what a blue room is/was you will know that the next time I need something done I will stand real close to that E-2 and ask for volunteers. Want to bet a picture of beer he volunteers within a matter of seconds? I did have a guy refuse to stand a listening post one night in Vietnam. He told me that Jesus told him to quit fighting. I told him to get Jesus to stand the post with him or go to jail. He got four years in Leavenworth. Don't know if Jesus visited him. Soldier/Cop/Grunt, Retired
(0)
(0)
Simple. EMI (Extra Military Instruction. If they still have such a thing). In other words, shitbird duty.
(0)
(0)
Using the chain of command, this individual must be quickly punished for insubordination, to include extra duty and restriction
(0)
(0)
He [they] would't get off KP for a while.......MOS would change......Article 15.....Underseriable
(0)
(0)
They?!?!
THEY would all be dealing with UCMJ actions, period. THEY would all be receiving extra duty, THEY would all be in front of the Chain of Command.
I know most subordinates would probably say "I don't really have anything on my collar to lose", but they forget the one thing you have plenty of...THEIR TIME to utilize from End-of-Day formation until 23:30 hrs once UCMJ is imposed.
However, there is one thing that is left out of this scenario...does this senior E5 goes out, drinks and party with these subordinates on a regular basis? If he does, then he's the Tip of the problem. If he's just a nice guy then he needs to grow a pair and use his Authoritative Command and Command of Execution...plain and simple.
THEY would all be dealing with UCMJ actions, period. THEY would all be receiving extra duty, THEY would all be in front of the Chain of Command.
I know most subordinates would probably say "I don't really have anything on my collar to lose", but they forget the one thing you have plenty of...THEIR TIME to utilize from End-of-Day formation until 23:30 hrs once UCMJ is imposed.
However, there is one thing that is left out of this scenario...does this senior E5 goes out, drinks and party with these subordinates on a regular basis? If he does, then he's the Tip of the problem. If he's just a nice guy then he needs to grow a pair and use his Authoritative Command and Command of Execution...plain and simple.
(0)
(0)
Assign the remainder to their duties, then take the offending soldier out and give him one hell of a beasting!
(0)
(0)
While I agree with the term praise in public punish in private, an example must be set. Stand your ground. As an NCO WE are the backbone of the Army. We know our soldiers... that being said. I would go back to the front of formation and address the entire group. Explain to them that when a task is being it will be done, (I'm in the army so I will use that as an example) we are in the Army and are here on a voluntary basis. Our predecessors did not have that option (join or go to jail) when you choose to not follow orders you are choosing the fate of your career. I have been tasked with delegating assignments and will assign them accordingly. Look directly at the idiot that feels the need to mouth off and say "as a PV2 that has been in the Army for less a year (compared my multiple years of experience and service), if you feel you can do a better job, then why don't you come up here and do so. I will be happy to give you may rank, title and everything that goes with it. Now that being said if a direct is order is giving to you your job is to follow it. If you have an issue with it take it up with your first line later. Last I checked it says US Army over my heart, you volunteer to be here , meaning we all have jobs to do. If you don't want to be here then I will be happy to bring you up the chain of command and "request discharge" and smile politely. Now you were given your walking orders when I give word you will move out and do as ordered. PV2, you and your 1st line will stand fast and we will be taking this matter up directly. Failure to comply with these orders will result in taking further actions. Have I made myself clear?
Have them fall out and go to an area so that you and the PV2 and first line can discuss the appropriate actions. A counseling statement for insubordination is your first course of action. Follow whatever steps necessary after that.
Have them fall out and go to an area so that you and the PV2 and first line can discuss the appropriate actions. A counseling statement for insubordination is your first course of action. Follow whatever steps necessary after that.
(0)
(0)
SPC Jay Crawford
Sorry, praise in public criticize in private only applies if the problem did not occur in public. If you are challenged in public it needs to be answered that way, otherwise the only instruction that will come out to the rest of the troops is the version that the E-2 gives and you can bet it will make him look like a hero rather than a punk. If you are not in combat area a simple Article 15, reduction in rank and mustering out will be fine. In combat, jail.
(1)
(0)
SFC Cheri Kelley Miller
SPC Jay Crawford exactly why I would handle the way I stated above. Like I said, while I agree with the "punish in private, praise in public" concept I think an example needs to be set. When you become an NCO you tend to learn how best to handle different situations. This being one of them.
(0)
(0)
SSG Christopher Conklin
This way I always treated my E - 4 and below. It the way treated people I, work with on daily base. That's how I want to ne treated too.
(0)
(0)
Just reading this clear act of insubordination causes me to melt down. Granted it’s been years since I served in the Army (1964-67). I’m now a senior but I just can not imagine refusing an assignment from a superior let alone tellingly them to shove it. How would this Private act during a combat situation?
After reading this and other stories from whining troops I just shake my head in disgust. Today’s politically correct, kinder and gentler military needs to shape up and get back to basics, which is combat readiness, accomplishing the mission assigned, discipline esprit de corps.
You are not in the Girl Scouts people you are in the military service. You enlisted. Shut up, follow orders, work hard and learn all you can as if your life depended on it. Because it does.
After reading this and other stories from whining troops I just shake my head in disgust. Today’s politically correct, kinder and gentler military needs to shape up and get back to basics, which is combat readiness, accomplishing the mission assigned, discipline esprit de corps.
You are not in the Girl Scouts people you are in the military service. You enlisted. Shut up, follow orders, work hard and learn all you can as if your life depended on it. Because it does.
(0)
(0)
Stick my foot up his ass. Did it many times while servicing 1976-1999. The issues of today are due to the spineless CSMs.
(0)
(0)
Read This Next