Posted on Oct 16, 2016
How would you react to an E2 who "smart mouths" you in formation?
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Here's the background. You're a senior E5. Your troops are in formation and you're handing out work for the day. You hand out an assignment to a fresh E2 with less than a year in and only a few months at your command. They blatantly complain and tell you to choose someone else. You calmly tell them they will do this task and they tell you to shove it and give it to someone else. How do you react?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 3697
Had a similar incident happen as a 1SG. One of my PSG’s passed assignments to Sqd Ltd E5, who in turn gave the assignments to Sqd members. One PFC was obviously having a bad day. Turns out he was totally insubordinate and was brought to my office. Turns out he’d been diagnosed with HIV. The insubordination was his reaction and acting out. He was immediately referred to our assigned PA, to begin a process of counseling, medical assessment and treatment. Assignments were altered to accommodate his new Chronic medical condition. He’s non-deployable and like many autoimmune patients had a dramatic increase in sick call attendance. Soldiers are our most important resource. Caring for them requires, as leaders, acute attention to details. Discipline is only considered after, all facts are investigated.
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Having been in that situation many years ago, it was: "Beg your pardon, I am a bit hard of hearing" followed by "Okay, not a problem, stand fast after I dismiss everyone" After everyone else is dismissed we go into the shop office where our CW4 Platoon Leader dwelled and said Private repeated what he said in response to my order. Chief asked if the door to the office was locked and I affirmed that it was. And what followed was one of the most spectacular non-physical, low voice volume ass chewings that I had and still have ever seen and heard that was a combination of remedial physical fitness training and detailed explanation as to the error of the ways of said Private and a caution that if the situation repeats itself said Private's military service, if not ended, they would be hard pressed to see additional rank. The Private in question came away with a better understanding of what to say and what not to say when an NCO gives them an order. Said Private, by the way, became a Warrant Officer later on and retired as a CW4 themselves. I came away with a lesson learned that one doesn't always have to be loud, forceful or resort to killing trees to correct an individual in helping them to see the error of their ways.
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i would insrtuct him to report to the company commanders office at 1300hrs and have the company clerk to draw up paperwork for ucmj action disobeying a lawfuull order of an nco and derilection of duty, afterwareds i wpuld hold a mandatory meeting with my platoon to let them know this shit isnt going to slide, We work as a team and that means ladi doti and everybody
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I'm sure reading a lot of 'touchy-feely' bullshit from you newer Vets.
GySgt. Pepper had it technically correct, PO1 Gibbens had it physically correct. Nobody wants to do the crap jobs, but when you're E-1 to E-3, guess what? That's your jam! It's the dance you do. Don't like it? Gain rank or GTFO. Before securing the formation, I'd choose my senior E-3 (The most terminal rank 'Grand Old L/Cpl Of The Marine Corps' salty fuck in the unit and order him to go do it in PFC Shitbirds place... PFC gonna learn after 16:30!
GySgt. Pepper had it technically correct, PO1 Gibbens had it physically correct. Nobody wants to do the crap jobs, but when you're E-1 to E-3, guess what? That's your jam! It's the dance you do. Don't like it? Gain rank or GTFO. Before securing the formation, I'd choose my senior E-3 (The most terminal rank 'Grand Old L/Cpl Of The Marine Corps' salty fuck in the unit and order him to go do it in PFC Shitbirds place... PFC gonna learn after 16:30!
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If I out rank them I will tell them one more time then if they tell me to stick it again I will with the plt. sgt and the plt. ldr write them up if I am the plt. sgt I will process them for article 15's.
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there may be an underlying issue higher command is seeing you are not? An order is an order, you really don't have a choice and this is the time to try and decipher their reason of logic. Maybe your being tested?
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I’d explain to him what an Article 15 will do to his career. I would also restrict him to the base for a short period of time.
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'59 to '79, when I was in, it would've out of sight and taught the error of his ways!!
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Keep the Pvt and his team leader after formation, explain how the army works, afterwards write a formal counseling statement. And introduce the young man to the school of the soldier on the weekend/weekends...take his time and continue until his behavior changes...I see no reason to take this fwd to ucmj at this point. Inform psg of the corrective traing plan and carry on.
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After this E2 does 200 pushups and 100 man-maker I ask him if he knows what he did is wrong. If he fail to respond appropriately, he does 400 pushups and 200 man-makers. Repeat and repeat until he begs to take his assignment.
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Everyone else does pushups while the E2 watches. Then assign the work to him anyway. His”karma” will come soon enough
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Smoke the entire platoon while i make him SIT and watch, all while every single battle buddy is contemplating his slow death. I want him to see the pain and exhaustion he just caused all of his battles to go through. All because said PVT was only worried about himself. Hed get a quick and hard lesson on how only worrying about oneself could get him killed in battle. Then once the walls are sweating from all the PT id make him scrub the walls clean with the condensation that all his battle buddies just created... I can guarantee all his battle buddies will square him away REAL nicely after that!
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It seems like nowadays people are jumping straight to paperwork. I disagree with that in most instances (with a few exceptions). Paperwork I dont think should he a first resort. I'm a fan of a good old smoking and/or putting them on extra duties and details. If that doesn't work then start paperwork
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Have him standby after the formation is dismissed to carry on with the plan of the day, talk to him to see what’s going on, and if he doesn’t have anything that sparks a red flag to his welfare and it’s just him being a shitbag, give him a negative counseling and put him on some working parties.
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