How would you react to an E2 who "smart mouths" you in formation?

While I did respect military bearing, I fell victim to this situation. I was ordered to participate in a unit of event, game called PushBall, basically a 5' diameter beach ball that plays similar to rugby. At the time, I was rehabbing a knee injury and second follow up surgery, and a current ankle grade 2 ankle sprain. Drs had written me a temporary level 3 pt profile to avoid activities that would put the recovery at risk. I politely asked what was involved from the E-6 I was under, he refused to answer. I politely reminded him of my drs activity restrictions with a copy of paperwork in hand. He steps away, brings over the acting First Sergeant, an E-7, and another E-7 from support, and the three of them proceed to tell me in front of several other soldiers that they are now giving me a lawful order to participate, refusing will result in an Art 15 hearing. I participated, and as a result, blew my left ACL in my left knee. When that was confirmed by an MRI a month later, and a call from my Ortho surgeon to the company asking why I was ordered to participate in the first place, those 3 NCO's started to threaten me with a second Art 15 for violating my PT profile, and other accusations. Three of the other soldiers that witnessed these NCO's order me in the first place stepped up as witnesses in my defense. Over the next 2 months, all of us ended up with Art 15s for some other issue. Cant say every insubordination is right, I can say that, depending on the chain of command, there can be a lot of damned if you do, damned if you dont, and just plain damned.

Once upon a time the E2 would have been wall to wall counseled by a NCO. My first day in my old unit, 4-7 CAV in Germany the CSM was wall to wall counseling a PFC who had gotten a DWI. If the PFC would given him lip he probably would have been stuffed inside a claymore and then it would have been detonated! I hate to say the 80's Army was the old army but I guess it was the way things have changed.

I did something similar in 04 in the navy. My BM1 e6 gave me an outstanding wall to wall counseling session. It worked. Things have changed and when I got out in 11 as an e5 I'd make sure there isn't something major going on, then do paperwork. Anything else opens you up to punishment yourself now.

I am assuming that this is NOT the Marine Corps. If it were the Corps, there would be hell to pay. Every other Leatherneck would be helping to "tune up" Pvt. Schmucklefuk. Being it is most likely the Army. Send him to his room for a "time out" and take away his X-Box for a week. Just kidding. ARE YOU FRIGGING KIDDING ME ??? Set this young piss ant straight, in no uncertain terms. EMI (if there still is such a thing) comes to mind. Extra duty. Have his ass on the carpet and let him know how close he is to an entry in his SRB. Pain builds character and improves the memory. Imagine this type of garbage in a combat situation. Discipline is for EVERYONES benefit. It helps keep people ALIVE.

I'm thinking the proper response would involve a minimum 4 mile "jog" after hours in full combat gear. Most definitely appropriate UCMJ action and a proper size [boot size] suppository. But that's just me.

I'd pull him out of formation and have a personal gofor for the day. After I dismissed the formation He would be handed the UCMJ and directed to research every article which pertained to his insubordination. Then he would write his letter of reprimand until it met my expectations. Next formation he would read it out loud and sign it. I would then chew them all out for allowing one of their own to be so ignorant and stupid.

To “CPL (no name) who said the private should be given a chance to explain his insubordination, I say - What?
The private already told the sergeant to shove it and you think the sergeant should “Mommy” him? If he was told once and refused, then told again and tells the sergeant to shove it, charge him with insubordination and let the chips fall where they may. There’s no “strike three”.

Although I never experienced this type of blatant disobedience, I would have snatched him out of formation and straightened out the attitude problem first, followed by a Captain's Mast under Article 15. The straightening technique would have been determined by when and where we happened to be located at the time i.e. at sea, homeport or port of call. But it would have been a significant emotional event, I can guarantee that.

Years back, (about '74) I was an E-4 in the Navy. Boatswains Mate. I had a kid that defied almost every order given him. Back then, we had a "procedure" known as "lay forward to the Bosuns Locker" Everyone onboard sort of knew you didn't get called there for a social occasion. I had this kid escorted to that place, and once there, the hatch was dogged. What happened next was that the person evidently, "fell up a ladder". It never took more than one visit to get him/them in line. Nowadays, I'm guessing the Navy no longer tolerates this kind of thing. But it sure did work.

Disrespect to an NCO and insubordination. Put it on paper, explain to them they will do the task you have ordered them to do because it's their duty to obey all lawful orders. If they fail to do it or continue to bite back, put it on paper again and recommend UCMJ for the individual. Then pursue admin separation if their attitude doesn't change.The military has enough problems than to deal with individuals who clearly can't adapt to the military lifestyle. Of all the issues in my life, I never let it affect my professional interactions with superiors. What does it say about our military now that FNG's come in and start stomping on leaders from the get go. I don't believe a bad marriage is an excuse to disrespect people or that there is any excuse that justifies that kind of behavior but I am pretty aggressive when it comes to perceived slights.

I totally agree with Gunny Sgt then make sure it goes on his permanent record
for his future job apps.

"well pv2 dumbass you have several options. first, you can do the task ordered to you and you can like it, second, you can do the task ordered to you and NOT like it, third, I can smoke the dog $hit out of you and then you do the task anyway, or fourth option, I can take your pay with an Article 15. Oh, btw if you pick the last one, your life will suck for a LONG time."

I have experience being an E2 and have mouth offed to a senior E5 and was smoked everyday for 6months straight. I learned the hard way. Well I since then I have had an E2 smart off to me as an E5. And what did I do? I smoked him, I got ahold of his team leader and smarted off to him too, and nothing worked. Well to make a long story short he got drunk and had a few under aged woman in the barracks and I promptly told my E7. I flew under the radar and he was discharged fast as fuck. Trust your leadership, do things under the books and take care of it. Chances are that that E2 has dirt on someone and that someone is a bitch and let that E2 walk over them. Be different. Fuck that private up, your chain of command will look the other way unless necessary

As an NCO , 1st step -Oral counseling(praise in public/criticize in private), consult with the Platoon Sgt. about it so they know. and can advise. 2nd time -paper -write up consult with Plt Sgt again , 3 rd time - either another write up or a write up to start Summary Art 15 proceedings of course again keep platoon sgt in loop and then it goes to the Lt. for ok to go to CO for art 15 proceedings. Keep your ducks in a row, I don't know if there are racial differences or other things, so keep this official with command in the loop. Do not want to put yourself in a crack, or be looked at on the same level as this fool

Really the oral counseling better work, if you feel you can't reach him, explain to Plt. Sgt. This stuff needs to be stopped. Can always go indirect too and get E-4's to reach him. The Spec 4 Mafia often carries more weight and alot of times privates listen to them more. Also it is the "lazy" way , LOL, The 4 's already know.

Last couple years in (and then 4 years in the Guard) I refused many E-5 boards to stay a Spec 4 I did not want all the bogus performance reviews,baby-sitting privates ,having your balls put in a jar, etc. God. if a new E-2 disrespected me in an official capacity(or even off duty in a serious way ) , they would find out real quick, which side toast is buttered on and who butters it. I carried some weight in unit , and off-duty, and off post. plus I was a BAMF. Would have been a bad idea to cross me, I have had to explain that nicely to such persons, a few privates (even a couple Lt.'s LOL) before . They fell in line or they were basically started on the way out the Army. Such people need to corrected quick because they will not change otherwise , And if you don't so something that soldier is probably going to step on their dicks to the wrong people, or phuck up, and will be out the door.

Well back in the 60's and 70's he would spend a lot of time on KP and guard duty

Drop for push ups NOW or meet SP4"nutjob" later
I WAS Sp4 "nutjob"Scouts are tight FOR A REASON.

Such a blatant show of disrespect must be dealt with immediately, quickly, and with direct brim to brim , eye ball to eye ball motivational manner..Everyone but this E2s fire team, or squad leader is dismissed, for a heart to heart discusion.

I was a smart ass but not until I made E-4 and had a combat tour (not just a deployment) under my belt. That being said, even though I was a smart ass and made jokes I still followed lawful orders. Didn't matter what I had going on upstairs or back home. Work was work and fun was fun and even though my NCOs knew it was harmless and I always followed lawful orders I still got the shit smoked out of me for opening my trap. After the smoking was done we had a good laugh and I still got my ass back to work. Obviously PV2 shitbird hasn't earned that right yet so in the time being put his dick in the dirt or out of the army but one way or another this problem can be resolved pretty quickly.

1969 Basic at Ft Jackson we had lots of people who really did not want to be there. This private would have been pulling KP, fire watch, cleaning toilets, ..... till he had a real attitude adjustment.
Another option is to let the squad or platoon handle the E2. Discipline the entire unit for the attitude of this individual. Extra tasks, pre-PT test (run laps, do push-ups..). Extra patrols, guard duty...

This is a very difficult subject. If you are the E5 you must discourage this behavior immediately (albeit respectfully). I faced this situation on a number of occasions when I was a squad leader on prior enlistment (1988 - 1996). It isn't easy to do, particularly when many of the soldiers are your friends, but it is absolutely necessary to correct this behavior. If this isn't dealt with, your soldiers will begin to think that this is appropriate behavior and it will become the norm, and discipline will become lax jeopardizing the unit.

As an example, I am currently deployed as a surgeon on an FRST at a FOB in Afghanistan; our Detachment Sergeant is extremely lax with our enlisted soldiers, and our commander has been complacent with this. As a result 6 months into the deployment, they feel at ease being disrespectful to all members of the team by means of smart remarks, eye rolls, insubordination, etc. For example, a specialist challenged our orthopedic surgeon about whether or not he should perform a surgery on a combat injured patient. While I don't think it is out of malice, their behavior is inappropriate and unchecked. Our soldiers sleep in frequently and spent their day watching TV, Youtube, and playing video games. When they are given reading assignments for educational lectures they frequently neglect to complete them. Due to the complacencies of the command and breakdown of discipline, ultimately mistakes are made that compromise the mission and the safety of the team. For instance, our detachment sergeant left a loaded M4 in an unsecured vehicle. It was eventually discovered by another soldier and returned. The negligent soldier faced no reprimand or disciplinary action.

So in answer to your question, take the soldier aside, counsel them on their inappropriate behavior, and assure them that if the inappropriate behavior continues they may face punitive action.