Posted on Oct 16, 2016
How would you react to an E2 who "smart mouths" you in formation?
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Here's the background. You're a senior E5. Your troops are in formation and you're handing out work for the day. You hand out an assignment to a fresh E2 with less than a year in and only a few months at your command. They blatantly complain and tell you to choose someone else. You calmly tell them they will do this task and they tell you to shove it and give it to someone else. How do you react?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 3697
Let him know it's not up for discussion, dismiss the platoon to a subordinate leader and deal with the situation immediately. I would have him complete the task, then make him clean our facility, toilets, conduct a thorough police call of the area, give him a lawn mower and have him cut the already freshly cut grass all day. After he's done he will come see me for a counseling at 1700. He will stand by for an hour as I type the counseling and catch up on some emails. I will let him know that he's not to ever challenge me, ever, and doing so will land him a recommendation for UCMJ and extra duty. He will have a loooong day, and a long week to think about what he did.
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I'm reading some of your posts thinking, this is what's wrong with the military today. Praise publicly admonish privately? HORSE SHIT! Insubordination requires an immediate example to be made!
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SSG Chris McKee
Let me elaborate, praise publicly, admonish privately is for when a mistake is made or there are patterns of minor issues. Insubordination is not one of those times.
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Old corps. I'd knock him out right there on the spot. Transition corps. I'd write him up and take his stripe. New corps. I'd apologize for hurting his feelings and tell him to go to his safe space. I'd then find someone else to do the work he doesn't want to do.
You DO know I'm kidding right? Best answer I've seen comes from a fellow Marine. @CPL(P) Shaun Smith MBA, PhD Student (https://www.rallypoint.com/profiles/737480-15t-uh-60-helicopter-repairer) knocked it out of the park.
You DO know I'm kidding right? Best answer I've seen comes from a fellow Marine. @CPL(P) Shaun Smith MBA, PhD Student (https://www.rallypoint.com/profiles/737480-15t-uh-60-helicopter-repairer) knocked it out of the park.
CPL Security Contractor at Military Contractor | 15T: UH-60 Helicopter Repairer | RallyPoint
15T: UH-60 Helicopter Repairer, CPL, Army National Guard | RallyPoint professional military profile.
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Time for a positive teaching moment. Nothing personal, Private, but you now enter the realm of enhanced attitude improvement. Assign someone to supervise his attitude adjustment activities. Not UCMJ stuff, just supervised visits to a brig, observation of work details, and other alternative demonstrations of what he could face if he continues his path of self-destruction.
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Had an A1C almost throw an instrument at me. We had a slow day as our planes were on weather delay. We had an instrument sitting on our launch and recovery truck waiting to be placed back on a plane. I called job control and asked if there was any reason why we couldn't put it back in the plane to save it from possibly being broken rolling around on the shelf. I was clearly told, in front of the whole crew on the truck at the time, that it could be replaced. I was an E5 and gave the task to this E3. He bitched, moaned and complained the whole time he was getting the tools and took off for the plane. He came back to the truck about 10 minutes later cussing and cursing. He raised the part and aimed it right at my head and screamed, "You stupid bitch, it has open fuel tanks and I can't put it in. You are such a stupid idiot sending me on a job that can't be done." He added a few other choice words before deciding throwing the part at my head probably wasn't a good idea. I told the driver to take us to the shack immediately. I marched the young airman to the NCOIC's office and told him to tell him what just happened. He gave "his" version than I told him the real version. He called in other people from the truck and asked them the story. He also called job control to verify that I did get clearance to work the plane. At the end of the day, the young man was lucky he didn't get an article 15 for several reasons including threatening an NCO with a "weapon". He got an LOR and 3 months of all the nasty chores available around the shack from cleaning both bathrooms to all the mopping, sweeping, FOD walks several times a day in all weather (was in England). He also had to apologize to me in front of everyone for all 3 shifts. Oh, this was in the early 80's and I was one of only 3 or 4 female NCO's in our section working avionics. I did have a private talk with said A1C on my own as well. I think he, and many other's as well, got the message.
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When I was a PL, that happened once or twice. I would just look at my PSG, he'd nod, and I'd watch the smoke. It was rare though. I had an amazing PSG who didn't let shit slide. We were a great team.
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I had an E8 come into my room to tell me that he had just volunteered me to move tables for the Chaplin. I had just worked over 60 hours in the previous three days, and had only been back at the barracks for about 15 minutes. He didn't like my answer. My work involved precision timing and working with high voltage. I averaged 140 hours per 14 day cycle. There were four others who could have done the job, but he was trying to provoke me into a fight, to Court Martial me. I refused to take his bait. I was an Engineer, not a lackey.
I was so exhausted that I was shaking as I told him that I wanted to speak to the Inspector General. He moved those tables. By the time the dust settled, he came close to being reduced to an E1, while the commanding General put my SP4 pins on me. This wasn't long after I was pulled out of bed after another three day shift to fight a forest fire, while sleep deprived.
It is one thing not to want to take an assignment that you don't like. It is another thing to refuse to be abused. That last year of active duty pretty much destroyed my heath, but no one gave a damn. It was at the Army's Cold Weather Research Center in Alaska, in the early to mid '70s.
I was so exhausted that I was shaking as I told him that I wanted to speak to the Inspector General. He moved those tables. By the time the dust settled, he came close to being reduced to an E1, while the commanding General put my SP4 pins on me. This wasn't long after I was pulled out of bed after another three day shift to fight a forest fire, while sleep deprived.
It is one thing not to want to take an assignment that you don't like. It is another thing to refuse to be abused. That last year of active duty pretty much destroyed my heath, but no one gave a damn. It was at the Army's Cold Weather Research Center in Alaska, in the early to mid '70s.
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I like some to all of the comments below. I especially like the ones of having this individual stand fast with his team leader and get the TL involved. However, sense the NCO cannot commence the laying on of hands any more in the military; I would suggest no matter what is discovered for the attitude problem, a counseling statement must be completed and filed on this individual. Another thought if you have not got the First Sergeant involved yet is the Platoon leader needs to write him a counseling statement also. I have spent way to much time watch NCO's try and rehabilitate Mr. Attitude when he really needs to be a civilian. He is part of the 10%. Plus don't you NCO have something called the self defense pit. Sounds like training time to me. If the attitude continues get rid of him and move on.
Bill Murray LTC (Retired)
Bill Murray LTC (Retired)
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What do you call an E-2 that gets reduced in rank by an Article-15? An E-1!!!! Correct!! Simple as that! Anything less than that means the E-5 is not worthy of his/her stripes! A second offense would be forfeiture of pay and confinement to company area! A third offense he goes to PFC "Poor Frickin Civilian" Ha! God Bless our Veterans! - Top
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