Posted on Oct 16, 2016
How would you react to an E2 who "smart mouths" you in formation?
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Here's the background. You're a senior E5. Your troops are in formation and you're handing out work for the day. You hand out an assignment to a fresh E2 with less than a year in and only a few months at your command. They blatantly complain and tell you to choose someone else. You calmly tell them they will do this task and they tell you to shove it and give it to someone else. How do you react?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 3697
As a 1SGT I would have the leadership team stand fast a d follow me to the office. I would invite the Plt Leader to attend. I would ask if this is an ongoing problem or does this soldier need special attention. Insist on a written plan for the Pvt. then I would have a little talk to the NCO,s about my expectation on there leadership style.
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Where has our military gone for some young shit bird to even think he can say such things and it’s okay? Next stop would be, Section Commander, with shit bird, his supervisor and me. Shit bird would receive a position on the “goon squad” until his discharge was official. No excuse for this type of disrespect. If shit bird can’t follow orders, then he is a detriment to his uniform, especially during a war time. Time to thin the herd before the shit hits the fan in real life.
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These comments are funny
The only thing that needs to happen is a swift knife hand spittle in the face and instant physical destruction
The only thing that needs to happen is a swift knife hand spittle in the face and instant physical destruction
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Remove him from the formation to an office scenario setting and let him know hos the "Bear reacts in the woods". Once then he is headed for "Office Hours" for insubordination. Give me a break, the tail wagging the dog will not make a winning team.
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The "School of The Soldier" was normally effective especially while everyone else was on pass. The 1SG and the CSM could also be quite inventive where the objective was to get an errant soldier's attention, versus formal charges.
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PVT A$$hole has just stood up to an E5. That takes a certain amount of courage (or insanity...but let's be generous here). Something like that might have value if it is correctly managed and aimed. Clearly, aiming it at the E5 in the chain is not good.
So, let's see about managing it and getting it vectored into something the Service can use.
Step One: Completely agree with dismissing all except PVT A$$hole and Squad Leader, thereof.
Step Two: Completely agree with conversation as mentioned (see discussion above, thanks to GySgt Kenneth Pepper).
Step Three: Remind PVT A$$hole that his Unit, and Leadership, thereof, are NOT his enemy. We all want PVT A$$hole to succeed. PVT A$$hole does seem to have some balls, and we would like to see them used against the ENEMY, not his own unit.
Step Four: PVT A$$hole gets to chose. Get his rear en moving, as directed, or see thedoor.
So, let's see about managing it and getting it vectored into something the Service can use.
Step One: Completely agree with dismissing all except PVT A$$hole and Squad Leader, thereof.
Step Two: Completely agree with conversation as mentioned (see discussion above, thanks to GySgt Kenneth Pepper).
Step Three: Remind PVT A$$hole that his Unit, and Leadership, thereof, are NOT his enemy. We all want PVT A$$hole to succeed. PVT A$$hole does seem to have some balls, and we would like to see them used against the ENEMY, not his own unit.
Step Four: PVT A$$hole gets to chose. Get his rear en moving, as directed, or see thedoor.
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Yikes! Disobey a lawful order, malingering and insubordination! Pretty serious stuff. Article 15.
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I’m an old Vietnam Combat Infantry Recon Rat. Got my training and experience before the Army became “Pussified”. Everyone looking to “correct” someone else for stupid shit. A little “behind the barracks” education worked every time stateside. In Nam, you could experience very severe consequences for that kind of response. In general, yakking back at an NCO was a VERY bad idea. If the NCO was the recognized asshole, he could be scheduling himself a blanket party. Things were taken care of in-unit, stateside or in theater. But this was a tip-of-the-spear combat unit. Don’t comply, you (or we) could die. If you were told to burn the shit pits, or crawl into a suspected VC village, both commands held equal weight. It wasn’t a “Job”, we were all part of a well-trained, well-oiled military machine. Sent to recon, observe and report, kill only when necessary. Captured VC, or even village chiefs, were intelligence troves. it was done quietly and efficiently. Sent to contact and neutralize, it was done with the same efficiency. THAT was the job. And we were excellent at it. The military is designed to kill people and blow shit up, better than the other guy.
Disobeying a direct order to, for example, adjust or use a drone attack in today’s Army could be just as fatal to a team like mine (or worse) as hesitating to take out an enemy up close and personal.
Rank needs respect; obedience needs priority in today’s Army. It’s a JOB okay, but with extraordinary requirements and commitment!
Disobeying a direct order to, for example, adjust or use a drone attack in today’s Army could be just as fatal to a team like mine (or worse) as hesitating to take out an enemy up close and personal.
Rank needs respect; obedience needs priority in today’s Army. It’s a JOB okay, but with extraordinary requirements and commitment!
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While I believe there is merit to the phrase "praise in public, punish in private", sometimes private dirt bag needs to get smoked - in public.
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Have the armed forces degraded so much in efficacy that we have to ask this question? If I was confused in this situation, I would pull off my rank insignia, give it to the sergeant major, and then ask to be discharged.
Fix it, and fix it quick. And based on this scenario, go from 0 to 60. You let this become an epidemic, you're hurting a nation. First of all, thrash the Sierra Hotel India Tango out of his or her squad leader.
Probably not the most politically correct way, but effective - we took turns in schools battalion being the OOD, and the OOD supervised field day on Thursday nights. Troops were getting a little whiny. For field day, everything that could be removed, comes out of the rooms. There were some troops standing in doorways, seemingly waiting it out. Even corporals and sergeants were shy about enforcing what's going on. I'm not going to write what I screamed, because it would be moderated... but every Marine and sailor in that building stood outside their door, so that they could hear me address them from the parking lot. I explained loudly that if I see one more Mike Foxtroter standing around not doing a Golf Delta thing or hear one more Mike Foxtroting complaint, not only is your Sierra Hotel India Tango coming out of your room, but you Sierra Oscar Bravos will CHANGE FLOORS and take your Sierra Hotel India Tango with you. I have all night... OOD is a 24-hour shift, MOVE, ladies, MOVE MOVE MOVE.
Fix it, and fix it quick. And based on this scenario, go from 0 to 60. You let this become an epidemic, you're hurting a nation. First of all, thrash the Sierra Hotel India Tango out of his or her squad leader.
Probably not the most politically correct way, but effective - we took turns in schools battalion being the OOD, and the OOD supervised field day on Thursday nights. Troops were getting a little whiny. For field day, everything that could be removed, comes out of the rooms. There were some troops standing in doorways, seemingly waiting it out. Even corporals and sergeants were shy about enforcing what's going on. I'm not going to write what I screamed, because it would be moderated... but every Marine and sailor in that building stood outside their door, so that they could hear me address them from the parking lot. I explained loudly that if I see one more Mike Foxtroter standing around not doing a Golf Delta thing or hear one more Mike Foxtroting complaint, not only is your Sierra Hotel India Tango coming out of your room, but you Sierra Oscar Bravos will CHANGE FLOORS and take your Sierra Hotel India Tango with you. I have all night... OOD is a 24-hour shift, MOVE, ladies, MOVE MOVE MOVE.
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Not an issue, the subject and his immediate supervisor and I will have a quick discussion about the UCMJ and how to proceed.
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I would continue assigning all details to the other Soldiers. I then release all except E-2 Smart Mouth. I also would hold back his detail person in charge of E-2 Smart Mouth. I then would either 1. Bring both of them to Attention and explain in detail what is expected when a detail is assigned. I would then explain what the alternatives are for E-2 Smart Mouth.
Or if that fails to correct E-@ Smart Mouth's attitude;
2.March both E-2 Smart Mouth and his Detail IC Soldier to the First Sargent's office for additional support and direction. This might include an Article 15 action for Failure to follow a Lawful Order, Disrespect for Authority, Conduct unbecoming.
In no instant can E-2 Smart Mouth shun his duties in front of the other Soldiers. It would not be good for morale!
3. A short time visit to the Base Stockade (30 Days) might correct E-2 Smart Mouth's outlook on life! ;-) I SALUTE All My Fellow Veterans!!! GOD Bless America!!!
Or if that fails to correct E-@ Smart Mouth's attitude;
2.March both E-2 Smart Mouth and his Detail IC Soldier to the First Sargent's office for additional support and direction. This might include an Article 15 action for Failure to follow a Lawful Order, Disrespect for Authority, Conduct unbecoming.
In no instant can E-2 Smart Mouth shun his duties in front of the other Soldiers. It would not be good for morale!
3. A short time visit to the Base Stockade (30 Days) might correct E-2 Smart Mouth's outlook on life! ;-) I SALUTE All My Fellow Veterans!!! GOD Bless America!!!
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Since he did not like the original assignment I would provide him with a specific task that would last a few days and ensure I assigned an NCO to babysit him during this endeavor.
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I have been away from the military for quite a few years now (both as active and civilian), so I am not sure that my answer would meet today's woke standards.
The first thing I would do is ask him (or her) to repeat what they had said in front of everyone in formation. This leaves no doubt about a he said/I said situation.
Then as calmly as humanly possible I would explain that he is in violation of Article 92 of the UCMJ (Failure to obey a direct order) and that I think he (or she) should rethink their position. If they refuse then I would call the Master-At-Arms and have them sent to the brig to await further action via the XO or Captain's mast.
The first thing I would do is ask him (or her) to repeat what they had said in front of everyone in formation. This leaves no doubt about a he said/I said situation.
Then as calmly as humanly possible I would explain that he is in violation of Article 92 of the UCMJ (Failure to obey a direct order) and that I think he (or she) should rethink their position. If they refuse then I would call the Master-At-Arms and have them sent to the brig to await further action via the XO or Captain's mast.
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Extra detail duty after duty hours for several weeks, possibly KP duty as well, lawn maintenance, trash detail for several weeks and that doesn't square away his attitude then spending several weeks in confinement with the Commands Blessing
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I would inform them that I am in command. That if they think the task is below them I would start with having them do pushups, then a nice 3 mile run, then have them clean the latrines in the company area. Of course that would be followed with a demonstration of their progress on the PT test. Lastly, I would go to command and have them charged with an AR15 for disobeying a lawful order. Which would be followed by a suggestion they be discharged from the service! The Army is not a democracy!
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I just came back from southeast Asia In 1969. I was wearing what we wore in the field . In a mess hall at edgewood arsenal my sleeves were cut short just like in the field where I crewed choppers. This corporal with a couple of privates by his side tried to pull rank and bark about my short sleeve shirt ( he didn't notice that I was e-5 ) , I turned around and faced him and said ( don't go there sternly ) . He didn't say another word and walked away to get his food with his 2 pvts. Was I wrong for facing him like I did
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The E-2 and I would have a "come to Jesus meeting" with the platoon leader PDQ!
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