Posted on Jun 12, 2019
I am being told to go to PT by the command on only 4-5 hours of sleep. As a junior enlisted, how do I solve this problem?
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We have a new 1SG and new commander. The 1SG noticed one day that only 5 people in the whole company showed up to PT. Now he put out to all the platoon Sergeants that everyone must show up to PT at either the 0530 formation or the 1600 formation.
However, my section is the only one in the hospital that has a 1600-0000 shift. I am being told by my first line that the 1SG says that I have to be at the morning formation, no exceptions.
I don’t want to sound like I’m whining but at the same time it’s unfortunate that I have to explain to myself as to why this isn’t right.
As a junior enlisted I do feel stuck.
How do I bring this issue up and solve this effectively and professionally?
Also: Do you know of any Army Regulations that can support anything?
However, my section is the only one in the hospital that has a 1600-0000 shift. I am being told by my first line that the 1SG says that I have to be at the morning formation, no exceptions.
I don’t want to sound like I’m whining but at the same time it’s unfortunate that I have to explain to myself as to why this isn’t right.
As a junior enlisted I do feel stuck.
How do I bring this issue up and solve this effectively and professionally?
Also: Do you know of any Army Regulations that can support anything?
Edited 6 y ago
Posted 6 y ago
Responses: 1688
It looks like you have plenty of time to sleep from 0830 - 1500.
I recommend you readjust your sleep schedule and sleep after PT, before work.
As others have pointed out, deployment is going to offer you a more stressful schedule and afford you less sleep. It's difficult to do, but you gotta drive on with a positive attitude. Try and look at it like a learning experience and see the glass as half full. That way when you do deploy you will be better adjusted to the "worse" conditions. You'll shine while others are lagging behind. You can pick up the torch and help others.
EDIT: I just read through some comments. Yes, it sucks that you have to schedule yourself differently than the first shift personnel. Correct it is not fair. Yes you'll do better on a more well rested day. But these difficult situations do not last forever. These difficult situations teach you a lot. You will learn from this experience and you can let it turn you into a 'negative person' or 'positive person'.
Life isn't always fair. Hard times end. Look for the silver lining.
I recommend you readjust your sleep schedule and sleep after PT, before work.
As others have pointed out, deployment is going to offer you a more stressful schedule and afford you less sleep. It's difficult to do, but you gotta drive on with a positive attitude. Try and look at it like a learning experience and see the glass as half full. That way when you do deploy you will be better adjusted to the "worse" conditions. You'll shine while others are lagging behind. You can pick up the torch and help others.
EDIT: I just read through some comments. Yes, it sucks that you have to schedule yourself differently than the first shift personnel. Correct it is not fair. Yes you'll do better on a more well rested day. But these difficult situations do not last forever. These difficult situations teach you a lot. You will learn from this experience and you can let it turn you into a 'negative person' or 'positive person'.
Life isn't always fair. Hard times end. Look for the silver lining.
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myself i'd do it anyway !!!! that way if you pass you'll feel better about yourself !!
dont put off what you can do today
dont put off what you can do today
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SPC(P) (Join to see) SUCK IT UP BUTTERCUP! That's nothing. Pack your PT gear the day before and have it with you. Work, get to sleep ASAP afterward, wake up, drink some coffee to get the motor running and do it. Going to your command over this will end badly.
I worked 5 hours Wednesday (my shift for a gate that closes at 8pm, it relieves the morning shift and assists the closer), 8 hrs on Thursday 1400-2200, 16 hours 0600-2200 on Friday, 16 hours 0600-2200 on Saturday and 1400-2200 on Sunday. Normally Friday and Saturday are 0600-1400, however, because of the likelihood, I will be off from Thanksgiving, I got to make up the hours. I have to take a dog to the vet at about 0730 tomorrow for a Cushing's test, look it up. Also, we don't get breaks or lunch. I maybe get 3-4 hours of sleep on Thursday/Friday if I am lucky. I am also studying for my BSIT Network Operations and Security degree at Western Governors and my final cert class before Capstone is CCNA Security with an absolute deadline of Feb 23 by Cisco.
https://www.wgu.edu/online-it-degrees/network-administration-information-technology-security-bachelors-program.html
I am F'N exhausted right now. Still, have 2 chapters to cover in 2 other books AND videos to watch just to get caught up before my degree mentor calls me tomorrow afternoon. I also have labs to do as well. Welcome to the real suck, it's called life. Worked 31 hours straight after working a 12-hour shift, off at 5 am, drove home 35 miles, washed up, dressed and worked from 0600-2030 as a Harris County (Home to Houston, Tx) Election Official doing field tech work with the electronic ballot boxes.
I had to make 5 laps covering all the sites in my district. By the time I got home and to sleep at 2230, I was up for 31 hours straight. The dropoff was in NW Houston and I live in SE Houston. Coffee and Red Bull were in my hands at any given point.
I worked 5 hours Wednesday (my shift for a gate that closes at 8pm, it relieves the morning shift and assists the closer), 8 hrs on Thursday 1400-2200, 16 hours 0600-2200 on Friday, 16 hours 0600-2200 on Saturday and 1400-2200 on Sunday. Normally Friday and Saturday are 0600-1400, however, because of the likelihood, I will be off from Thanksgiving, I got to make up the hours. I have to take a dog to the vet at about 0730 tomorrow for a Cushing's test, look it up. Also, we don't get breaks or lunch. I maybe get 3-4 hours of sleep on Thursday/Friday if I am lucky. I am also studying for my BSIT Network Operations and Security degree at Western Governors and my final cert class before Capstone is CCNA Security with an absolute deadline of Feb 23 by Cisco.
https://www.wgu.edu/online-it-degrees/network-administration-information-technology-security-bachelors-program.html
I am F'N exhausted right now. Still, have 2 chapters to cover in 2 other books AND videos to watch just to get caught up before my degree mentor calls me tomorrow afternoon. I also have labs to do as well. Welcome to the real suck, it's called life. Worked 31 hours straight after working a 12-hour shift, off at 5 am, drove home 35 miles, washed up, dressed and worked from 0600-2030 as a Harris County (Home to Houston, Tx) Election Official doing field tech work with the electronic ballot boxes.
I had to make 5 laps covering all the sites in my district. By the time I got home and to sleep at 2230, I was up for 31 hours straight. The dropoff was in NW Houston and I live in SE Houston. Coffee and Red Bull were in my hands at any given point.

Network Administration & IT Security Degree Program Online | WGU
WGU's accredited online network administration and IT security bachelor's degree is a respected, affordable, competency-based program for working IT professionals.
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And you are a promotable SPC (at the time you posted this) and whining (yes you are) about going to PT at 0530hrs when you get off shift at 0000hrs. When I was in, I been told (not sure if this is correct of not) that the Amy only has to give you 4hrs of rest, and those four hrs does not have to be all in one either. When I was in Korea (2003-2004), for 3 weeks straight, I got woke up after 2-3hrs to do a PT test. The commander wanted to get his numbers higher (I was not the only one and I was a SSG). Was I happy about it? No, but carried on and not bitch about it either. As they said in the movies, suck it up buttercup.
How many in your section is effected by this? If more then 3-4 people, why don't you take the initiative and come up on a plan that you conduct PT to your "squad" Brief that plan to your command (PLT SGT, 1SGT, CDR). The army wants you to be a leader (or you would not be promotable) and need to take the initiative, whether it is good or bad.
I know this been posted 6months ago and you might be a SGT by now. Hope it work out for you.
How many in your section is effected by this? If more then 3-4 people, why don't you take the initiative and come up on a plan that you conduct PT to your "squad" Brief that plan to your command (PLT SGT, 1SGT, CDR). The army wants you to be a leader (or you would not be promotable) and need to take the initiative, whether it is good or bad.
I know this been posted 6months ago and you might be a SGT by now. Hope it work out for you.
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Adapt! Need to take your butt to bed early. Your not at home any more where you may stay out all night long and sleep till noon. This the military and only require to provide you with 3 hots, a cot and 4 hours of sleep.
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Old School mentality here. Suck it up butter cup. Several of the things I learned in the military was:
1) If you slid out from doing something, even if it’s regulation, it pisses off the person commanding it. If they are a vindictive prick, they will stick it to you a different way via regulation.
2) Tis better to suffer in silence and be rewarded in another area, then to bitch about something, labeled a trouble maker and assigned to the most Shitty duties that come down the pike. I noticed guys that just did whatever, regardless of how unfair or unjust received favorable treatment later on where the shitbirds just got dogged
3) Set the example, do the task. The military isn’t an easy or fair life. It builds character. You may need the example to help you out later on in your career. The military is ALWAYS training for war. Look at the guys that were in combat. Fatigue was a constant. Our Nam vets in the heat of the jungle, sweating there nuts off, humping up and down valleys on endless patrols, now it’s guard duty time, already tired and worn out. Watching your buddies getting some z’s. Shit! Got contact! Contact doesn’t break till dawn. Police up your brass and gear. Don’t leave nothing behind for the enemy. Now it’s time to start humping again. I’m not a Nam vet. I was trained by Nam vets. The more you sweat in training the less you bleed in war... Go to PT, go tired, do your job. You’ll have to dig deep inside you. You’d be surprised at what you can do if your mind is with it. A navy seal said, “ when you feel tired and can’t go anymore, your body is only 40% tired. It’s your mind telling you to quit because you feel uncomfortable”
1) If you slid out from doing something, even if it’s regulation, it pisses off the person commanding it. If they are a vindictive prick, they will stick it to you a different way via regulation.
2) Tis better to suffer in silence and be rewarded in another area, then to bitch about something, labeled a trouble maker and assigned to the most Shitty duties that come down the pike. I noticed guys that just did whatever, regardless of how unfair or unjust received favorable treatment later on where the shitbirds just got dogged
3) Set the example, do the task. The military isn’t an easy or fair life. It builds character. You may need the example to help you out later on in your career. The military is ALWAYS training for war. Look at the guys that were in combat. Fatigue was a constant. Our Nam vets in the heat of the jungle, sweating there nuts off, humping up and down valleys on endless patrols, now it’s guard duty time, already tired and worn out. Watching your buddies getting some z’s. Shit! Got contact! Contact doesn’t break till dawn. Police up your brass and gear. Don’t leave nothing behind for the enemy. Now it’s time to start humping again. I’m not a Nam vet. I was trained by Nam vets. The more you sweat in training the less you bleed in war... Go to PT, go tired, do your job. You’ll have to dig deep inside you. You’d be surprised at what you can do if your mind is with it. A navy seal said, “ when you feel tired and can’t go anymore, your body is only 40% tired. It’s your mind telling you to quit because you feel uncomfortable”
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Certainly, the next war we fight will feature civilized enemies who will take into consideration such humanitarian things as whether or not we have had a good night's sleep, a nice wholesome breakfast, the weather to ensure no rainy or snowy days, and of course a recent mani-pedi. Physical fitness is in your best interest, and so is obedience to lawful orders and regulations. Perhaps your best recourse is to find greener pastures.
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Unfortunately, like everyone else in your situation your day just became your night. You now need to get your sleep during the day before work. Good luck
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Well, if you ever find yourself in a combat situation, you might be running and jumping, just like PT, in order to carry out your job. This might be done on no sleep. Just deal with it. You can do it.
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"However, my section is the only one in the hospital that has a 1600-0000 shift."
"everyone must show up to PT at either the 0530 formation or the 1600 formation. "
Looks like you are working from 4pm to midnight. That means you should be able to hit the rack until 0430/0500, after all, nothings going on after midnight, make the 0530 formation, shower, go back to bed until say 1000, get up and go about your day until 1530 to head for your shift.
I don't see an issue here.
"everyone must show up to PT at either the 0530 formation or the 1600 formation. "
Looks like you are working from 4pm to midnight. That means you should be able to hit the rack until 0430/0500, after all, nothings going on after midnight, make the 0530 formation, shower, go back to bed until say 1000, get up and go about your day until 1530 to head for your shift.
I don't see an issue here.
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I hate telling stories beginning with "Back in my day,..." but here it goes. In my time in 2ID, we'd generally have passes off-post until midnight. We'd drink, sometimes a lot. We'd often continue a party until 1a.m. in the barracks until the CQ would tell us to shut up. My aid station would have to be up and running by 0445 for sick call, then we'd PT at about 0600, sometimes still somewhat inebriated. So quite a few of us medics and other soldiers in the battalion would be doing PT on 3-4 hours sleep and possibly inebriated or hungover for or five days a week.
The difference between your situation and ours in 87 is that ours was self-induced. Same effect/result, but we didn't complain.
I also worked 12on/12off in a hospital sometimes, when we weren't on the three shift rotation and participated in unit PT, right after my duty day ended, at 0730 or just before it started depending on my work schedule.
You can adapt your daily schedule to accommodate PT, nowhere is it written that all your sleep must be in 8 uninterrupted hours
The difference between your situation and ours in 87 is that ours was self-induced. Same effect/result, but we didn't complain.
I also worked 12on/12off in a hospital sometimes, when we weren't on the three shift rotation and participated in unit PT, right after my duty day ended, at 0730 or just before it started depending on my work schedule.
You can adapt your daily schedule to accommodate PT, nowhere is it written that all your sleep must be in 8 uninterrupted hours
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Looking at this objectively, I sympathize with your situation but understand the fundamental requirement of PT. Commanders intent seems to be the key piece of the puzzle here. What is that intent? Why are we emphasizing these PT formations?
That knowledge is paramount to your case as far as gaining an understanding of all parties goes. If these PT formations are being used for accountability, then wrong answer. There are better ways. If it’s being used for PT because “traditional army hooah we have to start every day with a five mile run” then also wrong answer. Mission takes precedence and as a medic your patients and your reliability and efficiently are insurmountably important.
Now if this is all because there are APFT failures or h/w failures, I can begin to see the commanders intent, but it could stand for some flexibility. Is this the only action available to achieve the desired result? What about encouraging small squad level gym times, and let lower leadership operate within the scope of the commanders intent? That’s what you have leaders for right? Your shift gets done, your head of shift dictates a training schedule that works for you and your shift mates, adhere to schedule, achieve results.
The only flaw I see in this is if it’s not like 92Gs where the same people are kept together for a “shift team” and the teams are rotated out on a daily schedule. If so I apologize for my lack of medical operations knowledge.
That knowledge is paramount to your case as far as gaining an understanding of all parties goes. If these PT formations are being used for accountability, then wrong answer. There are better ways. If it’s being used for PT because “traditional army hooah we have to start every day with a five mile run” then also wrong answer. Mission takes precedence and as a medic your patients and your reliability and efficiently are insurmountably important.
Now if this is all because there are APFT failures or h/w failures, I can begin to see the commanders intent, but it could stand for some flexibility. Is this the only action available to achieve the desired result? What about encouraging small squad level gym times, and let lower leadership operate within the scope of the commanders intent? That’s what you have leaders for right? Your shift gets done, your head of shift dictates a training schedule that works for you and your shift mates, adhere to schedule, achieve results.
The only flaw I see in this is if it’s not like 92Gs where the same people are kept together for a “shift team” and the teams are rotated out on a daily schedule. If so I apologize for my lack of medical operations knowledge.
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You guys have it easy lol. We only had to have 4 hrs of sleep that could get interrupted every 20 minutes. Not to mention when your overseas you get women up by explosions and gun fire. The military is supposed to get you ready for battle in a war zone. Your supposed to be able to function on little too no sleep. I've been out now for almost 10 years and I now drive truck. I still operate better on 5 hours of sleep. Put on your man panties and suck it up. I'm glad I got out when I did because of this very attitude. Your going to be one that gets someone killed in war because you didn't get your beauty sleep.
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