I am being told to go to PT by the command on only 4-5 hours of sleep. As a junior enlisted, how do I solve this problem?

To CLAB about it isn’t going to help you. Perhaps you should develop a possible solution to the problem and present it to the 1SG (properly utilizing your support channel) for approval. It should be your plan for your physical training coupled with a risk assessment, or a suggested time that is conducive to those with your schedule. Having said that, your 1SG isn’t being mean, he’s ensuring the physical combat readiness of his soft skilled Soldiers. Perhaps you should suck it up and thank him.

As I see it you have 2 options. 1 - Attend the 0530 formation and catch your sleep when you can. 2 - Ask if another formation can be held. Since the shift is 16 - 0000 other soldiers must also be affected. Remember, this is the Army.

Have you tried not being so much of a pussy?

Back in the day we would drink all weekend and roll out for Monday Morning PT in our Banana Suit PT uniforms and and be sent back in the B's in Germany to get our MOPP Gear for MOPP 4 PT. This was late 80's Germany, so we prepped for war constantly. if you couldn't go from the club to MOPP 4 and run you were gonna be Dead if the balloon went up. The Soviet Liaison Missions were following our convoys, the girls at the clubs either wanted an ID card and a ring, or Intel on your unit.
4 hrs sleep downrange used to be a dream.

Question: How is working in a hospital, etc. different from getting 2-4 hours sleep in the rain and mud, then handling weapons and explosives? Just a thought.

I hear McDonald's is hiring.

Suck it up, buttercup

Honestly I say suck it up and be there with your best attitude. That is what gets you noticed and the best attitude brings huge rewards (special assignments and duties). It won't last forever and I'm betting as a junior enlisted you are pretty young, so you can handle it (didn't we used to party all night and work the next day?) LOL, so you will get through this.

Really, If you can't handle that, then you really have to think, am I really cut out for this. Maybe it's time to find a new career. I remember having to work late, getting less than 4 hrs sleep and having to do PT at 0530 and going back to work and doing it all over again. Army life is meant to be tough because lives are at stake. My advice, manage your life better and come to know what's important.

The first issue we have is you don't think that your 1SG knows what is going on , the second issue we have is that you don't want to make a small adjustment to you schedule to accommodate PT time (most likely you don't schedule your off time at all) well way I see is you can disagree with top (you will not prevail) or you can adapt

Nothing to solve. Just do it

During my deployments, I worked @1600 to 0400 on one tour and 2100 to 0900 on another tour, 6 to 7 days a week. Being a National Guard Personnel Services NCO on AD, it gave me the opportunity to have real time communication back home. I was assigned to the Army BN HQ S1, which allowed them to have me covers nights for them. I never got to do PT with the unit. I did it only own. I also slept from 0600 to 1400. It is a case of adapting if need be, and also leadership leading and caring for Soldiers. I was fortunate to have great leadership. You will get through this. If you have concerns for patient care, stay in your Chain of Command to address that.

According to what you've shared; Welcome to night shift! Your new battle buddies are owls and bats! Get yourself a nice sleeping mask to block out the light and embrace the suck!

I know this is an extremely old thread, but I'd like to provide some input for anyone that visits this in the future. I understand both sides of the argument. Would it be great to get more than 4 to 5 hours of sleep? Absolutely. The military life will never guarantee that you will get the rest you need throughout your career whether in garrison or in the field/deployment. In some cases you have to accept that, in other cases you might be able to fight it. It depends on a case by case basis.

On my first deployment to Afghanistan, I worked 19 to 20 hours every day for an entire deployment. I was woken up almost every single night, because night shift wouldn't do their jobs. If I wasn't woken up for that, I was woken up due to all the noise of night shift people coming into the barracks to get something they forgot, or to wake someone else up. I did not have time to workout on my 2 to 3 hour off time. So we were allowed to utilize our lunch time to get our PT in - as long as it didn't interfere with the deployment. Soldiers would also find creative ways to do PT while at work. We were still expected to maintain our physical fitness - despite the long hours. This occurred during the "New Army," era. This is not something worth fighting as this affected the entire unit. Unless we had a solution to fix it for everyone, which we did not, we sucked it up.

During this deployment we worked 12 hour shifts, along with several hours worth of other duties. It became worse when our officers decided they should be excused from all other duties, because they were not lower enlisted. So, all lower enlisted got even less sleep due to the officers bowing out. You could say we were all extremely exhausted - and in all honesty had a reason to complain this time. But, someone brought this up to the chain of command at the time, and it was never addressed. However, I doubt someone brought an actual solution to the table. Complaining to a chain of command about not getting enough sleep during deployment falls on deaf ears - because it usually affects everyone. Unfortunately, the lower enlisted received the worst of it, but everyone was tired nonetheless. If an actual solution was provided for everyone (not just an individual), we might have had it better. Unfortunately, this was not the case. It was a learning experience, and in this particular case it could have been fought.

Fast forward to returning from deployment, and my sleep issues never stopped. I live in a very odd situation, where I pretty much am on everyone else's time - even when I'm at home. From early morning to late evening. I have almost zero time to myself. I always have to find creative ways to get PT in, because by the time my night is over it's late and I'm usually exhausted. Once I started school I was lucky if I got 1 to 2 hours a sleep a night. After my first semester was over, I was very rundown, got sick, and had very bad migraines. When I started getting more sleep, my energy came back. I'm doing a bit better in the sleeping department now, but getting great sleep is extremely hard to come by. Especially, when both the Army life and my life at home are demanding and time consuming. That is just the way of life sometimes. It's not always going to be fair, but we can make changes to our schedules that we can control to hopefully stay as healthy possible. Which, is what I had to do - and I have no life outside of work and home.

I 100% understand that a lack of sleep over a long period time is extremely bad for your health. But, 4 to 5 hours isn't too bad. Your body can handle that for awhile. If you're getting 1 to 2 hours a sleep consistently, I would be much more concerned. Now, if you feel you're just not getting enough sleep, you have a few options. Either provide an all encompassing solution to your chain of command where the entire unit benefits from it, or adjust your schedule to where you are getting more sleep. This could mean you take naps during your lunch, and sleep when you have time available. You may not be able to sleep all at once, and you might have to break it up throughout the day. This also means you might not have time to do anything else, other than work, sleep, eat, PT, personal hygiene and repeat. It doesn't sound fun, but sometimes you have to sacrifice your personal time to ensure you get the rest that you need in order to function properly.

As far as you needing to be well rested for a medical occupation in the military, that's not always going to happen. Whether you're in the medical field in the military or in the civilian sector it can and will be a hectic occupation to be in at times. There is no guarantee you'll get the right amount of sleep while you're in the medical field. With that being said, the military in itself is high risk. No matter what job you're in, it can be life or death if you're not on alert. Whether in garrison, in the field, or overseas. It's not just the medical field. Do your best to get as much rest as you can, and if this means not having a life for awhile then you might have to accept that - or find creative ways to work around it.

What are you doing after PT till you go to work?

Better learn to suck it up, because that’s the life we signed up for. The Army isn’t a 8-12 hour job. It’s 24/7. You go when called and all the stress you deal with is part of it. Direct obedience to orders and the PT is to keep your mind and body sharp. The enemy will not wait for you to wake and feel like fighting. The enemy will snuff you out and move on. Your leadership is preparing you to be responsible for the man/ woman to your left or right. You are young and don’t know why they are doing it. It’s a bigger picture than you can handle. Either get with the program or get out so you can sleep your life away. We all went through it and it’s part of discipline!

There is no excuse for this. 4-5 hours sleep is not enough turn around time. It sounds like you are AMEDD and the Army I was in 20 years ago would never have done this. Unfortunately, there are bad individual commands along with bad commanders. As a hospital troop, you need rest to care for patients. I would go to JAG and ask them to help you formulate a rational complaint with a rational solution. You could suggest that PT be done in the afternoon prior to your shift. If that fails there is the IG. I remember it was very effective when I was in 20 years ago. Last resort is write your elected representative, but unlike the IG, they are removed from the situation and can only write your command a letter. Good luck. I am sorry that you are going thru this. This is the sort of thing that causes good soldiers to leave.

Just be happy you have leadership that pushes you hard to make you a stronger more resilient soldier/person.

It’s like working out in the afternoon for you. Adjust your schedule. You are whining.

Seems to me that there would be a lot of other people in your overall command that don’t have “shifts” ending at or before 1600. If you are the only person on your shift affected by this, the hospital (like all other units being affected) can do without you for an hour - OR - your boss at the hospital can request an exemption.
I also have to ask - is PT being required every single day or is it only 2 or 3 times per week? You don’t mention that, nor do you mention requesting a formal waiver/exemption.
Finally, I got by on about 4 hours of sleep almost every day for 13 months in Vietnam. Most of that sleep was in one to two hour increments since I also had to take my turn on watch every night. Very often, this might be after being out on an operation, or sweep, or patrol or God knows whatever else during daylight hours.
The military is NOT a 9 to 5 job and you had to know that when you enlisted.
So either get an exemption, or arrange to show up late on PT days, or just stop whining.

Suck it up buttercup … there were times we just got into the barracks with enough time to suit up in PT gear and go do what was scheduled
Guys would be puking on the run but guess what, we all made it
You go out at night for whatever reason KNOWING you have PT in morning THATS on you …SUCK IT UP !!

Came in on this 2 years too late, but that's RP: putting old posts front and center.

0700-1500 = 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep. Terrible shift though, nothings open when you come off.

Surprised your section doesn't hold its own formations and PT. That could be a solution.

You’re working against the system because medics are usually the most unfit in a lot of units due to your schedules. However, I do disagree with you reporting after a long shift like that. You can work night shifts for a while but it takes a toll on your system. I lost years off my life staying up for 24/30 hour shifts with a small 15/20 minute nap. You need sleep for your body to recover and sleeping during the day take away from your personal responsibilities. Appointments, running errands, grocery shopping, or whatever.

With today’s technology there’s absolutely no reason why you should have to report after working that shift.

My recommendation is this, buy a good fitness watch, create a PT schedule that is focused around the ACFT or whatever your unit uses to test for fitness. Log your workouts in your fitness app and send screenshots of your workouts with weekly weigh-ins. To take another step is to have more medics from your schedule meet up and do PT together.

I know that a lot of commands are old fashioned with doing PT between 0630 to 0800. But any GOOD leader will understand and work with his people for them to maintain a healthy lifestyle and good motivation/morale.

I hope this helps. RLTW!

Oh poor baby. You are in the military. You sleep when you have time.

Had a similar situation. My company got a new 1SG and he was not aware that he had soldiers at the Regiment HQ that worked some strange hours. Subsequently I was called out of ranks by an NCO whom I didn’t work for. I was directed to Tops office and he instructed to sweep and mop the day room. Of course I did as instructed, The 1SG asked me why I wasn’t in formation? I told him that I was Special Duty and in the past three years have never been in a Company formation. He laughed and said why I didn’t tell him that before he had me clean? I laughed and said “You didn’t ask me, Top. After that he poured me a cup of coffee and we had a good conversation about what my job was. Excellent First Sergeant! What I’m getting at is your Company leadership may not know your schedule and you first line in more concerned about himself than you.

I remember being told, if you want to be out all night partying, that’s fine. However you better be to work in the morning and on time. I never forgot those words. I’m 69 now and all the years I worked I was never late.

So nap from 00:30 to 04:30. Go to PT and go back and sleep after morning meal. It’s called military life. We’ve all done the same at some points in our duty.

Let me inject more to this... your MOS says laboratory specialist. You're far from the tending physician on duty. Way far. Yet, you snivel that you're being forced to PT on minimum hours. Why? Why aren't you using your CoC about this issue? You're airing business that does not need to be aired, especially on a public platform! To hell with your entitlement and your complaint! You deserve some extra duty at minimum for doing what you did, throwing your CoC under the bus. Totally unsat!
Do you realize that big city fire departments work a 24hr shift? There's at least 3 medics riding the buggy in my city, times that by however are on duty. They work a 24hr shift with very little to no sleep and they have to be spot on for their duty hours. You, have nowhere the responsibility that they have and you can't figure out a sleep schedule and you only work a third of what they do? Maybe you should stop and think about shit like that before you open your mouth and embarrass yourself any further. I think PFC Davis is in order here, SPC Davis.
To those who haven't a clue about civilian duty hours, get a clue. The tending physician, the resident, the surgeons who just left and are now back in the OR 2 hours later, e.t.c
I live it, I see it. I also see those same folks at the gym in the hospital before and/ or after surgery work. There's no excuse that she can make to justify her sniveling.
That is all

This post is two years old. I don't know why RP is showing it to me. You probably are not even in the military any more.
From a policy standpoint, you have no leg to stand on. Be where you are told to be, when you are told to be there and quit complaining. The military is only required to let you have TWO hours of sleep. I can't tell you the number of times I got that news when I was in the Infantry. It sucks, and there were times when I had to work with even less sleep than that. You don't need sleep to do PT, sleep after PT.

Deal with it or look to another career. Problem solved

Regs leave plenty of room to F over Soldiers. Seek resolution from the chain of command. Just start from the bottom and work your way up until you get resolution. Be sure to present alternate, workable options such as your section doing PT separately.
You can also use your operational chain of command to solicit support. A doc might mention casually to the Company Commander that his PR program is adversely affecting the performance of your section.
If you work this issue in good faith and get no resolution, perhaps you can take comfort in being the 50 millionth US Army Soldier to endure a shitty situation. Our sacrifice of our freedoms for the benefit of others is a huge part of why we get respect from civilians.

Sorry to say but you are whining. Even if you do only get 4 hours of sleep, it should be plenty of rest for PT. My group used to work a 2,2,2 & 80 shift. After our eve shift (1600-2400) we’d , shower, change & go out till the clubs closed. Get breakfast & PT. Yes it was only twice a shift but I was 32 yrs old & did it without fail!

Suck it up buttercup

Are you serious? You’re not serious. Please say you’re just trolling. Get some fortitude. I’m embarrassed just reading this utter whining.

Jesus I was a 1SG of a medical company in combat and they ran the only clinic on the FOB 24 hours a day (12 hour shifts) so I have some basic knowledge and experience. My Soldiers did PT and managed well. The one thing no one is mentioning is he has over 16 hours of off time. Sure after shift it may be hard to sleep (too worked up to sleep) so do PT it'll help relieve stress and I promise you will sleep well after. I'm 49 now retired I can hardly sleep past 0500 and I go all day but trust if I can get 30 minutes sleep now and then I do it. I wanna call out SOFT ASS ARMY but I have kids in their 20s so I get it and like I tell them you chose your job when the time comes and you wanna change it, it's your choice. Until then suck it up buttercup and get it when you can!

The 1SG noticed? Shoot if only five Soldiers showed up to PT I wouldn't just notice I'd be furious. I was a 1SG in two totally different companies. Last time I checked an APFT is mandatory and you must pass (if not eventual chapter 13) to be promoted etc. So the next thing you'll say is I do PT on my own, ok does everybody so PT on their own, and do they all pass? The 1SG job among a million is to ensure their Soldiers are trained which includes passing the APFT. And 4 or 5 hours of sleep are you kidding me? There was times I didn't sleep all because of mission. So without out sounding like you're winning, you can forget. The enemy don't care how much sleep you did or did not get SOLDIER UP! And you have plenty plenty plenty of time to sleep maybe between 0000 to 0500 isn't enough (for most it is) but what the heck are you doing after PT until 1600....yeah WHINNING!

You solve that by going to PT.

Are you fucking serious?
What a whiny li'l bitch you are. If you get away with this, then what's next? "I was up late watching a movie"... blah, blah, blah.
You've got the whole rest of the day, take a nap before your 16:00 shift and grow a pair.

I have only one word WAAAAAH!