Posted on Jun 12, 2019
I am being told to go to PT by the command on only 4-5 hours of sleep. As a junior enlisted, how do I solve this problem?
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We have a new 1SG and new commander. The 1SG noticed one day that only 5 people in the whole company showed up to PT. Now he put out to all the platoon Sergeants that everyone must show up to PT at either the 0530 formation or the 1600 formation.
However, my section is the only one in the hospital that has a 1600-0000 shift. I am being told by my first line that the 1SG says that I have to be at the morning formation, no exceptions.
I don’t want to sound like I’m whining but at the same time it’s unfortunate that I have to explain to myself as to why this isn’t right.
As a junior enlisted I do feel stuck.
How do I bring this issue up and solve this effectively and professionally?
Also: Do you know of any Army Regulations that can support anything?
However, my section is the only one in the hospital that has a 1600-0000 shift. I am being told by my first line that the 1SG says that I have to be at the morning formation, no exceptions.
I don’t want to sound like I’m whining but at the same time it’s unfortunate that I have to explain to myself as to why this isn’t right.
As a junior enlisted I do feel stuck.
How do I bring this issue up and solve this effectively and professionally?
Also: Do you know of any Army Regulations that can support anything?
Company Commander
Physical Training
Army Regulations
Policy
Edited 6 y ago
Posted 6 y ago
Responses: 1688
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How about speaking with the 1SG or CMDR about a separate PT session for your section's shift workers? Offer, as a show of initiative, to be the one to establish a schedule and training plan. Depending on resources, you might have a gym open 24/hrs or a PT field all to yourself at 1am, or you can hold PT an hour or two before shift. Offer to coordinate leadership roles for each session for at least a month to test out the new schedule. Take and report attendance. Volunteer to be one of the PT leaders. Invite the 1SG and CDR to attend a few of your sessions. This is how we often handled PT with weird shifts. I had one shift where we had only 4 people - my entire squad - doing PT every day at 7am after mid-shift. We always got a good workout and the command could always find us because they knew where we were scheduled each day (gym, basketball court, field, whatever).
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Seriously? Is there no standards in the military anymore?!? I mean the lack of discipline alone is astounding, we’re gonna be in a world of hurt when a real war starts.
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I also remember coming home from the club and going straight to PT with now sleep as well but most of us knew and had each others 6. We helped each other through it. Even now 14 years after the military I still serve my country in the military on the civilian side. No I don’t go out anymore but have a family to care for and at 50 we are both disabled but I still get up @ 0330 everyday and go to work on 3 - 5 hours of sleep so suck it up or change careers. Whenever you deploy you’ll probably get less sleep than that.
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The military must have changed quite a bit. I remember being told the Army is required to provide 1 hot meal (if possible) and 1 hour of sleep per day. Sleep was always get while you can. PT was 6 days a week at 0500.
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There is a certain part of me that says that this is doable as I have been in situations like this before. This situation is sustainable for a short duration of time (6months or less) without resulting in burnout. The other side of the coin is that the 1600 showtime should be adjusted to match the work schedule of those that work the earlier shift. e.g.: 0530 PT and 0730 work shift start should also reflect with 1400 PT and 1600 work start. I would suggest a conversation with a proposed solution with your leadership.
For all those expressing to Suck It Up,… leadership is a two way street,… dictatorship is never a good style
For all those expressing to Suck It Up,… leadership is a two way street,… dictatorship is never a good style
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Bottom Line Up Front: the commander CAN have you do PT as described so your goal is to convince the commander that he is assuming unnecessary risk.
The army produced a Field Manual in October of 2020 which covered sleep issues and the degredation of mission readiness. FM 7-22 covers how, although Soldiers can perform on less than 7-8 hours of sleep per night and can supplement their performance with caffeine, this is a temporary fix. Soldiers need 7-8 hours per night and sleeping during daylight hours is less restful. The only thing that can truly replace lost sleep is sleep. If I were you, I would first seek to address this with the 1SG as it seems he is the driving force. In your Army career, always approach with a solution in mind to the problem. His issue is lack of visibility/attendance on PT. If I were in your shoes, I might build a PT schedule, plan PT to occur prior to shift to maximize sleep time and mirror everyone else's PT before work schedule, and then offer to be personally responsible for the program. This demonstartes leadership, proposes a solution, and meets the intent of doing PT every day with visibility. If the 1SG is unwilling to hear your proposal, there is always the commander's open door policy. Present this regulation and your plan and see if you can affect change. Moving forward in your career, approach every problem with this mentality:
-Is it legal?
-Is it efficient?
And then do the research for regulations and present a solution. If all you do is identify the problem, you are just complaining. Best of luck to you.
And for all the salty vets out there who are going to quote the "you only need 4 hours"....we dont need to be hard for the sake of being hard. Operate with purpose. What purpose does forcing one shift to get less sleep serve? As a flight medic, would you want me dealing with your loved one on only 3 hours of sleep or would you want the best possible medical care available? Operate in the best interest of your Soldier within the confines of the mission and you will achieve FAR superior results.
The army produced a Field Manual in October of 2020 which covered sleep issues and the degredation of mission readiness. FM 7-22 covers how, although Soldiers can perform on less than 7-8 hours of sleep per night and can supplement their performance with caffeine, this is a temporary fix. Soldiers need 7-8 hours per night and sleeping during daylight hours is less restful. The only thing that can truly replace lost sleep is sleep. If I were you, I would first seek to address this with the 1SG as it seems he is the driving force. In your Army career, always approach with a solution in mind to the problem. His issue is lack of visibility/attendance on PT. If I were in your shoes, I might build a PT schedule, plan PT to occur prior to shift to maximize sleep time and mirror everyone else's PT before work schedule, and then offer to be personally responsible for the program. This demonstartes leadership, proposes a solution, and meets the intent of doing PT every day with visibility. If the 1SG is unwilling to hear your proposal, there is always the commander's open door policy. Present this regulation and your plan and see if you can affect change. Moving forward in your career, approach every problem with this mentality:
-Is it legal?
-Is it efficient?
And then do the research for regulations and present a solution. If all you do is identify the problem, you are just complaining. Best of luck to you.
And for all the salty vets out there who are going to quote the "you only need 4 hours"....we dont need to be hard for the sake of being hard. Operate with purpose. What purpose does forcing one shift to get less sleep serve? As a flight medic, would you want me dealing with your loved one on only 3 hours of sleep or would you want the best possible medical care available? Operate in the best interest of your Soldier within the confines of the mission and you will achieve FAR superior results.
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Fallow your chain of command and plead your case to your Sgt, SSgt, then 1StSgt. if that doesn't work and you still feel you shouldn't have to show up do to your work schedule see your company Xo. Still You may or may not be excused do to the fact you still have plenty of down time after PT to rest before your work shift. Remember you are in the military not a civilian so you may just have to suck it up and deal with it. But anything's worth a try. Good Luck.
Well shit Rally Point this post is 4yrs old why is it just showing up on my feed? lol
Well shit Rally Point this post is 4yrs old why is it just showing up on my feed? lol
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I'm just going to say that in my experience, First Sergeants who are either new to a unit, or newly promoted love to wave their metaphorical nethers around to show dominance. Its garbage, its often short lived, but its what I personally saw. Crusty sergeants can dislike, its what I personally saw. I will also point out that in a "peacetime military", PT is one one of those places where toxic leaders can still exercise control.
I notice you're not saying a lot about what you're doing in those five and a half hours post duty. That's your business. If you're goofing off, then I have little sympathy. that said, try to get around the situation. maybe nap, or handle online tasks till you need to go to PT. then shower and rack out till you have to get up and do errands or get ready for the next day. if getting to sleep is a problem, maybe looking at a pharmacy for herbal remedies such as melatonin or chamomile after talking with a doctor might not be a bad idea- last I checked, chamomile tea and melatonin are not counted as narcotics. white noise generators or ASMR vids might also be a remedy as well. try to solve the problem before you complain, or take this up the chain of command- it shows you took time and made an effort to solve the problem.
I notice you're not saying a lot about what you're doing in those five and a half hours post duty. That's your business. If you're goofing off, then I have little sympathy. that said, try to get around the situation. maybe nap, or handle online tasks till you need to go to PT. then shower and rack out till you have to get up and do errands or get ready for the next day. if getting to sleep is a problem, maybe looking at a pharmacy for herbal remedies such as melatonin or chamomile after talking with a doctor might not be a bad idea- last I checked, chamomile tea and melatonin are not counted as narcotics. white noise generators or ASMR vids might also be a remedy as well. try to solve the problem before you complain, or take this up the chain of command- it shows you took time and made an effort to solve the problem.
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You fulfill the requirements not your druthers. Time management; do you think in combat the enemy will say “Oh you were out all night; we will attack later?” Grow up and do what needs doing.
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I would get your shift leadership to approach the 1SG / Commander to see if it is possible to perform PT before your shift or after your shift. When i was an MP we had the same type of situation. Our PT was scheduled for 1.5 hours before shift. (when working swing or mid shift) 1 hour after shift if working days. However you have to "sell this to your command" and once you sell this to your command you have to follow through and do the PT as scheduled. (They can have the staff duty officer check on you guys to verify that you are indeed doing PT)
However what probably happened is folks were trying to get over and got caught. Have you ever heard the phrase "Embrace the suck"? Sometimes you just have to suck it up until you get the new command climate to trust you
However what probably happened is folks were trying to get over and got caught. Have you ever heard the phrase "Embrace the suck"? Sometimes you just have to suck it up until you get the new command climate to trust you
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I always loved it when RA personnel got into 'who's the toughest' wrangles. Of course, as a draftee...
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You resolve the issue by following orders. You are not elite and have no special talents that exempt you from PT or standing formation. In my day (early to mid 60's), you'd probably have gotten an article 15 for disobeying orders.
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You resolve it by going to PT. And standing formation is also your responsibility. In my day (early 60s), you would have been given an automatic article 15 for missing either of those.
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Go ti PT and get it over with. All of them higher ups have been in your spot. EMBRACE THE SUCK.
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Suck it up and drive on!!! If you were in a combat situation you'd be lucky to get 3 hrs nap. Change your priorities. Army nowadays has gotten soft. Just my opinion. And, everyone know's opinions are like A-holes everyone has one.
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Go to PT. Don't gripe about it, work at it.. The Service isn't a job, 9-5 or otherwise. It's your life while you're in. Oh yeah, and once you get the movements down, you can rest your mind while you tune your body. Better than sex. Well, maybe that's exaggerating a little.
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M*A*S*H* - movie theme song - opening
M*A*S*H* movie theme. NOT the TV theme. buy the movie, buy the DVDs.Check this one out too, from the movie https://youtu.be/ec2-DNriE8I
The only reason I joined the Army is because I wanted to live the life of the M.A.S.H. People.Possibly fly a helicopter ( mostly)
It was better on TV.
I never quit ever. I just kept struggling through it year after year, war after war.
My mom was a nurse and a tree hugger hippie, she believed in saving lives. I became a Sapper leader, Ranger, Aviator, Combat life save, and in the end I was tossed out of the army sadly, I think I could have kept it up and kept on, no SGT(P) you can't even wear a helmet anymore, you are too broken. If you fight anymore, "Anything will kill you." It is time for you to realize you did enough and go home..."
Fracking hate that poop. I could have done a bit more.
When I hear about people complaining about being in, when I know if I was still I was I might bea able to do them more than them....
Let them go, bring me back. Let me do what I know how to do. I never needed a helmet on AD once, why should it make a difference my neck does not want one now. I can stop jumping from Aircraft. Thats fair.
https://youtu.be/FgcGOWaTPdU?t=9
It was better on TV.
I never quit ever. I just kept struggling through it year after year, war after war.
My mom was a nurse and a tree hugger hippie, she believed in saving lives. I became a Sapper leader, Ranger, Aviator, Combat life save, and in the end I was tossed out of the army sadly, I think I could have kept it up and kept on, no SGT(P) you can't even wear a helmet anymore, you are too broken. If you fight anymore, "Anything will kill you." It is time for you to realize you did enough and go home..."
Fracking hate that poop. I could have done a bit more.
When I hear about people complaining about being in, when I know if I was still I was I might bea able to do them more than them....
Let them go, bring me back. Let me do what I know how to do. I never needed a helmet on AD once, why should it make a difference my neck does not want one now. I can stop jumping from Aircraft. Thats fair.
https://youtu.be/FgcGOWaTPdU?t=9
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As soon as I saw this post I deleted it. I just dug it out of my deleted file.
Like medical for 13.5 years I was a crew chief, I was as well for a tiny bit of time an enlisted pilot.
I understand 100% (or Army 110%). What you speak of.
I heard part of what you said about on the pt formation it was kinda like "the army of emptiness"
Just me saying that means I was in a harder army by a factor than yours soldier.
If you want it to stop talk to your IG or JAGG officer. Make every formation. You will want to leave with a honorable discharge.
Others mentioned the Army might not be for you. I get that. I enlisted in 85. OMG it was hard then and I can tell you my previous peers hondorus etc... they were like count yourself lucky you are here now and not then.
No about the regulations. If you are not strong enough to deal with this then this is really not the job for you.
You can manage your time to work through this transition.
This commander and 1st will like get called to the carpet by JAG or the BCSM or COL.
Now how you deal with it before that happens is up to you and the discharge you want to get...
So I am a Airborne Paratrooper. I am a crew chief, I am an aircraft structural repair man (I am a woman by the way)...
I started with Reagan and ended seconds before Obama...
For one reason and 1 reason only you can go to the IG and Say work/crew endurance.
You will get your way, and you will be out of the Army. Better you should be a liberal in a hospital than one working in the Army. Not GOOD FIT FOR YOU. iF YOU WERE MY SON i WOULD BE WORKING TO GET YOU OUT AS FAST AS POSSIBLE, FOR YOU.
Now back, in Iraq, Kosovo, I was so lucky to be on leave for 30 days (RIGHT never happens, soldier of the year). So I did not have to go to Panama. I was on vacation that month. NC Ca. They were like Sgt by the time you get home it will be done anyhow.
Basically it was MOSTLY.
Basic, you work 18 hours a day, PLDC you work 18 hours a day, BNOC 8 hours a day.
Look old timers back me up here....
Airborne school 12-18 hours a day, air assault school 12-18 hours a day.
Sapper school 24 hours a day..... (I passed Sapper Leader School).
Ranger I failed I quit.
Q Course. after rucking 50 miles I said. "I am so glad I passed and I don't have to do this anymore."
They said SGT, this is the training like Basic or Airborne was. You should probably, honestly quit now. We do this all of the time."
I quit. It saved my life, my marriage, my relationship with my children. Once I finally understood what I was doing I was happy to give and be in thAT SPOT.
I did it over and over as a Sapper Leader Airborne NCO Engineer.
New Company Commanders and 1Sgts they come in and have to assess, make changes, message the thinking in the unit.
They never do this too long. It is a transition.
I think you can complain and get a discharge. In the end if you can't do this, As a 82nd AVN, 20th Eng, 37th NCO, Sapper leader... I have to say this is not the life for you.
I thought like that before and I learned and got over it. Find a NCO to help you do good, good and great things or get out as fast as you can.
If you cant work 18-24 36, 42 hours at a time you cant ever be a engineer.
Just smoke some pot and get out on a general discharge. If you are too afraid to ask fo help you can do that.
The Army, we have too much training (work, our work is to train). We can't babysit and hand hold millennials. I understand. You are medical.
again 13.5 years CAB 82ND ABN. I would work that long and have my finger on the trigger for a hellfire. I never killed anyone that whas not shooting.
Grow stronger SPC, like I did, or get out and find a new vocation as a EMT.
I am not better than you. I am just different. I am offering you advice to move on. Help your unit, and your family as well as you.
After I worked 42 hours straight and fell asleep doing my job I really am not sure this is the job for you.
Like medical for 13.5 years I was a crew chief, I was as well for a tiny bit of time an enlisted pilot.
I understand 100% (or Army 110%). What you speak of.
I heard part of what you said about on the pt formation it was kinda like "the army of emptiness"
Just me saying that means I was in a harder army by a factor than yours soldier.
If you want it to stop talk to your IG or JAGG officer. Make every formation. You will want to leave with a honorable discharge.
Others mentioned the Army might not be for you. I get that. I enlisted in 85. OMG it was hard then and I can tell you my previous peers hondorus etc... they were like count yourself lucky you are here now and not then.
No about the regulations. If you are not strong enough to deal with this then this is really not the job for you.
You can manage your time to work through this transition.
This commander and 1st will like get called to the carpet by JAG or the BCSM or COL.
Now how you deal with it before that happens is up to you and the discharge you want to get...
So I am a Airborne Paratrooper. I am a crew chief, I am an aircraft structural repair man (I am a woman by the way)...
I started with Reagan and ended seconds before Obama...
For one reason and 1 reason only you can go to the IG and Say work/crew endurance.
You will get your way, and you will be out of the Army. Better you should be a liberal in a hospital than one working in the Army. Not GOOD FIT FOR YOU. iF YOU WERE MY SON i WOULD BE WORKING TO GET YOU OUT AS FAST AS POSSIBLE, FOR YOU.
Now back, in Iraq, Kosovo, I was so lucky to be on leave for 30 days (RIGHT never happens, soldier of the year). So I did not have to go to Panama. I was on vacation that month. NC Ca. They were like Sgt by the time you get home it will be done anyhow.
Basically it was MOSTLY.
Basic, you work 18 hours a day, PLDC you work 18 hours a day, BNOC 8 hours a day.
Look old timers back me up here....
Airborne school 12-18 hours a day, air assault school 12-18 hours a day.
Sapper school 24 hours a day..... (I passed Sapper Leader School).
Ranger I failed I quit.
Q Course. after rucking 50 miles I said. "I am so glad I passed and I don't have to do this anymore."
They said SGT, this is the training like Basic or Airborne was. You should probably, honestly quit now. We do this all of the time."
I quit. It saved my life, my marriage, my relationship with my children. Once I finally understood what I was doing I was happy to give and be in thAT SPOT.
I did it over and over as a Sapper Leader Airborne NCO Engineer.
New Company Commanders and 1Sgts they come in and have to assess, make changes, message the thinking in the unit.
They never do this too long. It is a transition.
I think you can complain and get a discharge. In the end if you can't do this, As a 82nd AVN, 20th Eng, 37th NCO, Sapper leader... I have to say this is not the life for you.
I thought like that before and I learned and got over it. Find a NCO to help you do good, good and great things or get out as fast as you can.
If you cant work 18-24 36, 42 hours at a time you cant ever be a engineer.
Just smoke some pot and get out on a general discharge. If you are too afraid to ask fo help you can do that.
The Army, we have too much training (work, our work is to train). We can't babysit and hand hold millennials. I understand. You are medical.
again 13.5 years CAB 82ND ABN. I would work that long and have my finger on the trigger for a hellfire. I never killed anyone that whas not shooting.
Grow stronger SPC, like I did, or get out and find a new vocation as a EMT.
I am not better than you. I am just different. I am offering you advice to move on. Help your unit, and your family as well as you.
After I worked 42 hours straight and fell asleep doing my job I really am not sure this is the job for you.
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SGT(P) Jody Hall
First is your commander a PhD in Physiology, psychology, or a infantry officer on 2nd duty. Either way the last thing I say will be the most important. Most everyone here suffered more than you. I think we will want to find you a honorable discharge out of the army soon. You can give me your 1sg my name and number private and I will advocate to get you out of the army in a few weeks.
Crew rest, crew endurance. Your commander and 1sg know they can do it for a while to teach discipline and the new norm, in the end there will be morning and noon PT.
They are showing you they are incharge and they are! Life, death they have to answer to mistakes. In a few weeks/months there is no unlawful order in that. It might look bad on their annual review if it does not improve metrics. Have you ever heard hedging your bets, doing what your mentour said should work? Your commander and 1sg, they are doing that.
The CSMA, and the COL (BDE) in charge will let them learn and figure it out for a minute.
You just need to keep your military bearing for 3-12 months for the OER and the NCOer for your commander and 1sg.
Follow your orders to the best of your abilities and not break your oath of enlistment.
I will fallow every lawful order. And if you keep reading, you can work until you can no longer stay awake. It is part of the job we signed up for.
It will work out soon. Your NCOs will make sure of it...
The Ssg/SFC platoon daddies, and the squad leaders, we have a LONG, VERY LONG history in the airborne of not only keeping 2ns, and 1st Lts alive we teach them. We lead them to be safe, and when necessary take the same risk as the PFC in thier platoon.
In the Airborne, by the time you go to Basic, Ait, Jump School, Sapper school for the 12B peeps, everyone is a PFC Spc.
So my son is an Engineer 2nd generation.
I am the 7th generation Army. In my family we did some crazy things.
All I can say is talk to your squad leader, your platoon daddy, you or your wife explain it to your 1st (not a great choice, it worked for me).
Strange place. I was letting my health fall for the mission. My wife went in and saw the commander and 1sg.
Then I went back to mission 12 hours a daw and was so happy I could get medical help and feel my fingers and tows again. Yes I was then a SGT I could not feel my fingers or toes, I went to work every day 12-16 hours a day.
I love this 16.5 year career I had. It had good and bad. I wish I was still in.
I think this is not the job for you.
The Army so slow on fixing things, took good care of me. Addicted to drinking, I told them I need help. They did.
Addicted to pain pills after my helicopter crash... I asked for help I did.
There was that last time I got hurt so bad I could no longer wear a "Ballistic helmet"
Fucking thing was like 10-13 pounds.
Army neurosurgeon kicked me out. 50% disabled. Slap in my face.
Me my son, my daughter, her husband, her step father, my exwife we all invite you to start a new thread,
"I am a medic that is overworked taking care of you and your family in the hospitol"
How can I get out of this job I am really not meatally equiped for this life....
The reason Why I joined the 82nd AVN BDE, then was forced to go Airborne?"
Television. I was going too be this person.
You are not this person, ask your Jag rep to get you out as soon as possible before you hurt someone in your stress and sorrow....
So do I know how to end a CSM or a MAJ thatis a company commander oh his second appointment as a company commander? Yes, because it happened in Iraq. Follow orders, ask your Squad leader for help, or the senior squad leader, or SSG platoon daddy for help when you did All I said.
SFC/SGT platoon daddies, they will take care of you, just think it over how to complain and ask for their help.
I joined aviation, then the Airborne, then the engineers for a reason. They are the best.
Put in your 4187 and request jumpschool and promise if they approve it you will never speak again.
I am medically retired from active duty. 50% disabled.
I say you should get out, how can I help you do that.....
I am an aviator.
I am a horizontal construction engineer.
I am A sapper leader of since 2001 from Ft. Leanowood.
I am a combat life saver.
Airborne we take care of everyone, we always need more people smart minded strong of heart. You are probably not that kind of soldier.
My son was in a "LEG, NAP, Not airborne personnel." in hawaii. He could not get a fair shake.
Mom I will work every day 8-10 hours a day, please get me out of here.
He is now out of the army, engineer, plumber, made about 30 jumps. retired (not in the army now no pay).
Thanks mom, they hated me. I was afraid to do it but you did it, step dad did it. I did it.
Thank you...
Take my sons words, get help, get the frack out, smoke some pot, geeneral discharge.
Or be like me, my son, my daughter, join the Airborne, the 82 MOSTLY, never plays those "Reindeer games,"
Eric do you waant out of the army, MOM, I have to do this for 5.5 more years yes please help...
He got airborne papers. He served his time, happily, honorable, with decorations.
Ask fo help or run away and lets chace you down like a dog.
Don't ask us how to get out of this PT, Ask us how to deal with it.
Crew rest, crew endurance. Your commander and 1sg know they can do it for a while to teach discipline and the new norm, in the end there will be morning and noon PT.
They are showing you they are incharge and they are! Life, death they have to answer to mistakes. In a few weeks/months there is no unlawful order in that. It might look bad on their annual review if it does not improve metrics. Have you ever heard hedging your bets, doing what your mentour said should work? Your commander and 1sg, they are doing that.
The CSMA, and the COL (BDE) in charge will let them learn and figure it out for a minute.
You just need to keep your military bearing for 3-12 months for the OER and the NCOer for your commander and 1sg.
Follow your orders to the best of your abilities and not break your oath of enlistment.
I will fallow every lawful order. And if you keep reading, you can work until you can no longer stay awake. It is part of the job we signed up for.
It will work out soon. Your NCOs will make sure of it...
The Ssg/SFC platoon daddies, and the squad leaders, we have a LONG, VERY LONG history in the airborne of not only keeping 2ns, and 1st Lts alive we teach them. We lead them to be safe, and when necessary take the same risk as the PFC in thier platoon.
In the Airborne, by the time you go to Basic, Ait, Jump School, Sapper school for the 12B peeps, everyone is a PFC Spc.
So my son is an Engineer 2nd generation.
I am the 7th generation Army. In my family we did some crazy things.
All I can say is talk to your squad leader, your platoon daddy, you or your wife explain it to your 1st (not a great choice, it worked for me).
Strange place. I was letting my health fall for the mission. My wife went in and saw the commander and 1sg.
Then I went back to mission 12 hours a daw and was so happy I could get medical help and feel my fingers and tows again. Yes I was then a SGT I could not feel my fingers or toes, I went to work every day 12-16 hours a day.
I love this 16.5 year career I had. It had good and bad. I wish I was still in.
I think this is not the job for you.
The Army so slow on fixing things, took good care of me. Addicted to drinking, I told them I need help. They did.
Addicted to pain pills after my helicopter crash... I asked for help I did.
There was that last time I got hurt so bad I could no longer wear a "Ballistic helmet"
Fucking thing was like 10-13 pounds.
Army neurosurgeon kicked me out. 50% disabled. Slap in my face.
Me my son, my daughter, her husband, her step father, my exwife we all invite you to start a new thread,
"I am a medic that is overworked taking care of you and your family in the hospitol"
How can I get out of this job I am really not meatally equiped for this life....
The reason Why I joined the 82nd AVN BDE, then was forced to go Airborne?"
Television. I was going too be this person.
You are not this person, ask your Jag rep to get you out as soon as possible before you hurt someone in your stress and sorrow....
So do I know how to end a CSM or a MAJ thatis a company commander oh his second appointment as a company commander? Yes, because it happened in Iraq. Follow orders, ask your Squad leader for help, or the senior squad leader, or SSG platoon daddy for help when you did All I said.
SFC/SGT platoon daddies, they will take care of you, just think it over how to complain and ask for their help.
I joined aviation, then the Airborne, then the engineers for a reason. They are the best.
Put in your 4187 and request jumpschool and promise if they approve it you will never speak again.
I am medically retired from active duty. 50% disabled.
I say you should get out, how can I help you do that.....
I am an aviator.
I am a horizontal construction engineer.
I am A sapper leader of since 2001 from Ft. Leanowood.
I am a combat life saver.
Airborne we take care of everyone, we always need more people smart minded strong of heart. You are probably not that kind of soldier.
My son was in a "LEG, NAP, Not airborne personnel." in hawaii. He could not get a fair shake.
Mom I will work every day 8-10 hours a day, please get me out of here.
He is now out of the army, engineer, plumber, made about 30 jumps. retired (not in the army now no pay).
Thanks mom, they hated me. I was afraid to do it but you did it, step dad did it. I did it.
Thank you...
Take my sons words, get help, get the frack out, smoke some pot, geeneral discharge.
Or be like me, my son, my daughter, join the Airborne, the 82 MOSTLY, never plays those "Reindeer games,"
Eric do you waant out of the army, MOM, I have to do this for 5.5 more years yes please help...
He got airborne papers. He served his time, happily, honorable, with decorations.
Ask fo help or run away and lets chace you down like a dog.
Don't ask us how to get out of this PT, Ask us how to deal with it.
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I was a firefighter working 24 hrs shifts. It wasn't unusual for us to get off a shift in the morning and go straight to PT. You are a military member and belong to the military 24/7. You are ready to perform whatever task they require of you at any time of day or week. The sooner you realize this the faster you can quit whining about it. If you can't follow orders then the military is not for you. Don't re-enlist.
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There are a bunch of "I remember when it was so hard" replies. When does the 0800-1600 shift do PT? Probably 0530; this gives time for clean-up and breakfast before the shift. When does the 0000-0800 shift do PT? Probably 1600; 8 hours before shift. That sucks! It sounds to me that the 1SG is stuck in a different timeframe, not around-the-clock shifts. The senior NCOs need to discuss with him a better shift/PT schedule. Something akin to the early shift that does PT 2.5 hours before shift. This gives equity to all the shifts. No one coming in 8 hours early for PT and no one conducting PT with minimal sleep. It also aligns better with the rest of the Army's 10/11-hour days.
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Cant speak to the culture of todays military but there was a combat readiness requirement that physical conditioning was a significant factor in years past. Professional soldiers are fit physically and mentally. If you are looking for a reason to not follow his lawful order then apply for a deferment based on your physical issues or mental desire to be exempt from the oath you took when raising your right hand.
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Sorry butter cup but do your job that includes being physically fit. The enemy won't care you only got 4 or 5 hours sleep. Learn to overcome what you precieve as unfair and realize in the end you'll be tougher, more fit and better able to survive what's thrown your way
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Wow, I remember those days. However, I would present to your 1SG a solution to your problem versus "sounding" like a complaint. In my junior days on active duty, I was majority shift work. We presented that the section can do PT as a group outside of the company formation. If, however, we had an APFT failure, they would have to do PT with the company and additional PT. That was how it was presented, and our particular 1SGs were accommodating because they understood the difficulties of shift work. But you know your PLT SGT and 1SG. Ensure you can convey the proposed solution, pros, and cons, and articulate possible questions they may have. Also, the Section NCO would provide a daily PERSTAT to 1SG.
That should get you started.
Just realized this is a bunch of years old......oh well.
That should get you started.
Just realized this is a bunch of years old......oh well.
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Wow. Is this for real? You joined the military and this is what you're complaining about? Maybe you should have joined the Boy Scouts instead.
I guess the Navy trained us to do anything drunk/hungover because a lot of days there wasn't any sleep...
I can't believe someone actually asked this...
I guess the Navy trained us to do anything drunk/hungover because a lot of days there wasn't any sleep...
I can't believe someone actually asked this...
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How do you bring it up? Have you tried bringing it up to your supervisor? Maybe they will let you show up to the 1600 formation, then go to work? I would not say it is whining to ask the question. Complaining about the answer would be whining. Oh and FYI, you are going to have to explain yourself until people can trust you. That is just a fact of life.
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I would just go to sleep after PT. When I was on a shift like that I went to sleep at 0800.
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It sounds to me like your best bet is to do what you’re directed to do until your ETS date. Then ETS and you won’t have to worry about those mean 1SG’s making you do PT anymore.
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Suck it up butter cup! As a few troops here have mentioned being on time after a hard night's drinking just in time for a 5 mile fun run and a day of humping 204 pound projectiles! You can do it!!!
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Your in the military lack of sleep is normal. As the saying goes suck it up and get to pt or get out. When you get into battle the enemy isn't gonna say go take a nap and we'll come back. Sheesh I bet you can party all night and still go party some more
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I would work a 10-12 hour 3rd shift, go to PT in the morning, then go home and rack out. If there's an opportunity to switch shifts, I would say go for it. If not, then you may need to work better at your time management during your off time from when PT ends to when your next shift begins which seems like a pretty large gap in time.
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I am encouraged that most officers and senior NCOs here agree on the same solution; namely take it up the chain of command. Good NCOs take care of their men. Good officers take care of their men. But don't forget that the guy in charge makes the final decision. Otherwise we don't have an army - we have a mob. That answers the kid's question. Nuff said. Let's move on...
Oops, sorry about only talking about the army. The same goes for the rest of the other lesser branches of military service as well. Just kidding!!!
Oops, sorry about only talking about the army. The same goes for the rest of the other lesser branches of military service as well. Just kidding!!!
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This is the job. The military doesn't give you the option of making a schedule for sleep, you have to make do. During PMCS you may be able to sneak in a nap but all lower enlisted goes to work with very little sleep at times. Suck it up soldier...
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Back in my day, (damn I sound old) FM-22 only mandated you get 4 hours... now it's 7 non consecutive hours in a 24 hour period so... get 4, do PT, shower, eat, and go back to sleep. Problem solved.
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