Posted on Jun 12, 2019
SPC(P) Medical Laboratory Specialist
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We have a new 1SG and new commander. The 1SG noticed one day that only 5 people in the whole company showed up to PT. Now he put out to all the platoon Sergeants that everyone must show up to PT at either the 0530 formation or the 1600 formation.

However, my section is the only one in the hospital that has a 1600-0000 shift. I am being told by my first line that the 1SG says that I have to be at the morning formation, no exceptions.

I don’t want to sound like I’m whining but at the same time it’s unfortunate that I have to explain to myself as to why this isn’t right.

As a junior enlisted I do feel stuck.

How do I bring this issue up and solve this effectively and professionally?
Also: Do you know of any Army Regulations that can support anything?
Edited 6 y ago
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SCPO Flag Writer
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If you don’t want to go to PT report to formation and request to speak to someone in your chain of command afterwards. Follow your last order.

That being said you are in the military and being fit and ready to fight is what American’s tax dollars pay for. I am pretty sure America’s enemies are not complaining about going to make car bombs on 4 hours of sleep. What you really have to ask yourself is this. If getting to formation on 4 hours of sleep would make the difference between saving and losing the life of someone you loved would you do it? Then I think your answer is clear. Get off your 2-pack and execute that order Solider. America’s depending on you.
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MSgt Andrew Howe
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As a recently retired SNCO, I feel your pain. The typical new 1st Sergeant will usually go out of their way to impress the CC to look good, which means being a hard-arse about PT.
That aside, I’ll address others responses first. This Junior Enlisted member didn’t say he was CHOOSING his work hours as YOU chose to drink/party till PT time. Your correlation is completely bogus and also of your choosing. Had you been under my supervision, I’d have brought you up under an Article 15 for being in formation intoxicated! Evidently this young soldier has more common sense to address the issue in a responsible manner.
Now, back to the topic. I would speak to your first-line Supervisor following the Chain-of-Command protocols. You probably won’t get much there because Junior NCOs aren’t much to make waves. If there is a suggestion box or anonymous forum to direct the general concern to the CC, try that. Otherwise, you could ask your Supervisor to allow you the time for the 1600 formation. Typically, military personnel are allowed to leave work early for PT formations. These are ideas you can try. Don’t be shocked if you get no where...it’s the sad misfortune that military members are not looked at as human beings but machines that are pushed to break. Stay positive, stay strong, remember the negative so you can be an effective leader yourself once you achieve higher ranks if you choose to.
As for deployments, those are a whole different beast and everyone suffers 12-hour+ shifts with no down-days. It’s the warriors way.
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LCDR Aerospace Engineering Duty, Maintenance (AMDO and AMO)
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It's nice to see an NCO who actually remembers that our jobs, as leaders, is to take care of our people (and plenty of officers have also forgotten that). Yes, there will be bad deals. But it's a terrible excuse for a leader who just says "suck it up" when an exceptionally bad deal comes along, without even trying to fix the situation.
If an NCO or officer thinks their only job is to convey orders from the top, then they can just as easily (and much more cheaply) be replaced by an e-mail tree.
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SCPO Sam Allerton
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Edited >1 y ago
Seriously? Soldier, for what business are you training? Your statement "my section is the only one in the hospital" would suggest you could be deployed as a medic. Do you think the enemy cares one whit that you are working on little or no sleep? Are you going to raise your "It's not fair" card like a white flag when your buddies are bleeding out in the kill zone - or are you going to face the music you signed up to dance to?
You need to rapidly re-evaluate who you are - REALLY. Look yourself in the mirror and ask yourself if you are in the right place, because right now I would say NO!
Might I also suggest you start thinking from the perspective of at least two paygrades above where you are right now. If the 1SGT wants you at PT, get your butt over there and PT.
If you are looking for fairness in this life, you are going to be sorely disappointed. And since you volunteered for the Army, doubly so.
The life of an Armed Forces Services Member is not an easy one. You will be called on to make sacrifices in peace time that will better prepare you to survive in battle. Remember the old mantra "the more you sweat in peace, the less you bleed in war". Go to PT, sweat, and get into a physical and mental place where you can save your brothers and sisters when they need you most - or go home.
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MGySgt Tommy Martinez
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Go to PT problem solved.
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SR Michele Butcher
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Go to the PT get it done then go back to bed problem solved I can seriously think of way worse problems then getting a few hours sleep having pt then going back to bed
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MAJ Robert Philpot
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Are you going to die?
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SGT Michael McMahon
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As an old NCO, I remember that Regulations only require the commander to give a soldier 4 hours off (not sleep), while in garrison, and only one hour of sleep in tactical situations. Now if I were your Squad Leader, or Section Sergeant, I would be talking with Top, and figuring out a workable accommodation for those who have to work abnormal duty hours. I wish you luck Specialist, and THANK YOU, for carrying on the defense of freedom!
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SPC Wheeled Vehicle Mechanic
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I cannot even believe ur trying to get out of this. ITS NOT A PROBLEM do UR JOB and PT IS A PART OF UR JOB U DO IT JUST LIKE BASIC WHEN they tell u to do it. And U HAD LESS than 4-5 hours of continuous sleep back then.
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PO2 Richard Taylor
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I've read some of the other comments and feel this needs a solid response. A civilian nurse, even an ER/trauma nurse can expect to work a 12-hour shift. Most civilian first responders work 12-hour shifts. Everyone in the military is expected to be mission-ready 24-7-365, unless there are extenuating circumstances.
To feel that having 16 hours of downtime being interrupted is a "problem" IS the problem. I'm sure nearly everyone here has posted the 0000-0400 watch and been present for PT at 0530, or been deployed and worked 18 hour days, or been in combat and 'worked' nonstop for however long.
I'm not unsympathetic but you need to get your self-discipline in order, SPC Davis. We all have jobs that require accuracy for the sake of lives. Being physically fit is part of the commitment from Bootcamp onwards and is a fundamental part of your capability.
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PO2 Joseph Fast
PO2 Joseph Fast
5 y
I know I have never had daily watch from 0000-04000. Have I had watch from 0000-0400? Absolutely, but it wasn't everyday unless it was part of my work shift. I still don't see a problem with altering a work out time to be before or after work so both sleep and daily life routine stuff that is required when not deployed can be maintained.
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PO2 Richard Taylor
PO2 Richard Taylor
5 y
I wrote 0000-0400. I'm a Seabee and we ran 8 duty sections so you're not getting the same watch on the same weekday. Even so, anybody can expect the same watch every rotation, whether it's POOW, sentry, patrol, etc. It depends what the watch bill requires. I appreciate different Commands have differing expectations but I can say the subject of this thread would get some "counseling" in the 'Bees. IOW, this chip don't fly.
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SPC Wheeled Vehicle Mechanic
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PO2 Joseph Fast - If u do not see why. 1 its a part of his JOB. 2 HIM whining means I have zero confidence in him deciding I AM TIRED I am going to fall asleep cause I have the right to sleep I got away with it b4. I would tell U and this idiot to serve on the same platoon and u have to depend on him to depend on him to have UR 6.
I use to work from 5am until 10pm to midnight and I on my own would go out for a 4-6 mile run plus push ups, sit ups and Jumping Jacks. If this baby cannot do this he is no good for combat ever which means he should not be in the military. HE IS NOT TRUSTWORTHY. And it also means that he is out doing something else and feels that is more important than what he put his name too. To me he should get a dishonorable discharge and be done with. People like this selfish person get others killed.
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LCDR Arthur Whittum
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Why do I feel unsympathetic right now!? Suck it up comes to mind. Sorry, no pass.
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SrA George Gomez
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I was not in the Army 39 years ago, I was in the Air Force and the idea someone could complain about orders to assemble is insane. Wake up snowflakes, you gave your body to the Military for whatever length you signed up for. If you are in the field, playing in the sandbox or some place of conflict, the enemy does not care your sick or hungover. Suck it up and endure.
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A1C Kenneth White
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Respectfully ,
Should You ever find yourself in a "combat Theater" and I don't know if you haven't already, or even worse as it has happened in the past, some radical makes it on to a base , your base, You will not be able to tell the aggressor you only had a few hours sleep, They will have at you regardless of your fatigue, So with all due respect to your service, Thank you, But please Report to your PT...
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LCDR Aerospace Engineering Duty, Maintenance (AMDO and AMO)
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Why does everyone seem to have this mindset that we should treat every day of someone's service as if it was combat? That's not "preparing for combat," that's "destroying retention."
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LCDR Ernest Heassler
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Best response: suck it up and do the PT. Get a good couple of nights rest before you have to go short on sleep and you should be fine.
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LCDR Aerospace Engineering Duty, Maintenance (AMDO and AMO)
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That's not a "get a couple of nights rest." That's her weekly routine. Every week. Every month.
I can't imagine what names my Skipper would be calling me if I had my Sailors work 0700-1500... and then come in at 2000 M-F as their normal working hours. I'm pretty sure "get him the hell out of my squadron" is what he would have told PERS.
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SrA Derek Whitley
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Suck it up buttercup. Follow the orders then and only then, after complete compliance do you use your chain of command. Keep your military bearing. 4-5 hours of sleep is enough.
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SGT Richard Crawford
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A friend of mine who happens to be a 1SG in a Recruiting Unit told me I wouldn't like the Army anymore because it's not the Army I remember. In my day you went to PT not a question (unless you were a 300 scorer), you showed up Profile and all, after report those not participating in PT fell out to the back of formation to explain why they weren't participating (you better have a real reason). The PT formation also served as our way to account for our Soliders. I'm rambling but you are whining, stop go to PT get back take a shower lay down and I'll bet you'll sleep well.
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CPO Bernie Penkin
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Go to PT until you are told otherwise. My question to you Ashley is what have you done to bring a solution to your chain of command? Leadership hears all kinds of problems from their junior enlisted, but rarely do they get possible solutions. Old retired guys like me have endured many nights of little to no sleep due to operational commitment. That is probably why you don’t see much support, but I am willing to bet that if you show up for PT and give it your best along with alternative idea like PT at 1400 for you and your shift that you might see a change.
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SPC Wheeled Vehicle Mechanic
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I didn't go back and re read the orginal post but it seemed like there were two times to do PT. And they are using the earlier one in their excuse. Which as I recall is about when morning chow opens or just after u would get back from PT. I know of no one that would get off of a shift and go directly to sleep.
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LCDR Aerospace Engineering Duty, Maintenance (AMDO and AMO)
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I think the point is that she's brining it up here to get advice before taking action. In theory, that's part of what RP is for.
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SP5 James Johnson
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You can teach your body to sleep from 0100 to 0500 do your PT and then have a nice day. Later in the afternoon catch a few ZZZZ and go to work. Lifes a bitch and then you die.
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CPT William Jones
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What happens anywhere else is not relevant to this issue. The first sgt is not thinking or interested in this soldiers issue that the 1sgt created. Sm shift starts when afternoon pt starts and his shift ends 5.5 hours before morning pt subtract 1.5 hours for travel prep and eating after work leaves 4 hours for sleep which is not enough for day after day. one solution would be for top to pick him up join him for pt and take him back to sm quarters after pt. ill bet top will figure something out that is reasonable pretty quick
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PFC Charles Sanders
PFC Charles Sanders
>1 y
Or the sm sleeps after PT.
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SGT Jon Mullins
SGT Jon Mullins
>1 y
What about the rest of the day from after PT until duty starts again at 1600? I’m sure there’s enough time in there somewhere.
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SPC Wheeled Vehicle Mechanic
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5 y
I use to get up at 430-5am and go until 10-12 and do that six days a week. And unless I had something special to do I slept until 10am. I Coached 4 sports in addition to my military duties and was an athlete myself and trained for both Marathons and Wrestling and ran up to 25 miles for training runs and lifted weights right after I finished my runs or my wrestling workouts. hell I did my last two PT tests doing the run running backwards all of the way. The worst I did was 3rd the other time I finished 1st. Why did I do it? Cause maxing the run was really easy for me and I wanted to find out how I could do going backwards. And when my Co. had morning PT I did that also. In civilian life I would work 12-14 hour days and do a run and other PT that would take up half an hour up to an hour of my time at the end of my day.

In basic pulled guard duty like everyone else and CQ/CQ runner when I was in Perm party and went and did what I was supposed to do.

If I was ever to be called into war I want to know that the people I am with followed orders period and didn't whine or cry about it. I do not trust people with my life that do that crap. I go to war my 1st two jobs are to follow my orders and to come back Alive. Best way to come back alive is to know that those around u didn't try to skate out on their jobs ever.
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SGT Martha Cain
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Honestly, I went in as a WAC and never would have dared presume to question the rigorous physical training ; that was preparing us to function in a tactical situation~! War is the profession of a soldier. My proudest moment was selection for an Airborne Deployment unit~! An Airborne-D & everyone needed us & we had to be ready , 24/7...immediate, direct infantry support. Honor your service, do as required & be grateful for it..."soldier up".
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LCDR Aerospace Engineering Duty, Maintenance (AMDO and AMO)
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5 y
She's not questioning PT; she's questioning whether it's reasonable to be asked to told to come back to work 5 hours after her shift ends, every workday.

My view is, while it may be allowable, it's certainly not good leadership. Unfortunately, in the military, supposed leaders focus on what they CAN do, not what they should do.
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SGT Martha Cain
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Having gone to Ft. Bragg, N.C. & been trained as an airborne, infantry, tactical, signal soldier, I smile.
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