Posted on Jun 12, 2019
I am being told to go to PT by the command on only 4-5 hours of sleep. As a junior enlisted, how do I solve this problem?
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We have a new 1SG and new commander. The 1SG noticed one day that only 5 people in the whole company showed up to PT. Now he put out to all the platoon Sergeants that everyone must show up to PT at either the 0530 formation or the 1600 formation.
However, my section is the only one in the hospital that has a 1600-0000 shift. I am being told by my first line that the 1SG says that I have to be at the morning formation, no exceptions.
I don’t want to sound like I’m whining but at the same time it’s unfortunate that I have to explain to myself as to why this isn’t right.
As a junior enlisted I do feel stuck.
How do I bring this issue up and solve this effectively and professionally?
Also: Do you know of any Army Regulations that can support anything?
However, my section is the only one in the hospital that has a 1600-0000 shift. I am being told by my first line that the 1SG says that I have to be at the morning formation, no exceptions.
I don’t want to sound like I’m whining but at the same time it’s unfortunate that I have to explain to myself as to why this isn’t right.
As a junior enlisted I do feel stuck.
How do I bring this issue up and solve this effectively and professionally?
Also: Do you know of any Army Regulations that can support anything?
Company Commander
Physical Training
Army Regulations
Policy
Edited 6 y ago
Posted 6 y ago
Responses: 1688
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You fulfill the requirements not your druthers. Time management; do you think in combat the enemy will say “Oh you were out all night; we will attack later?” Grow up and do what needs doing.
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I would get your shift leadership to approach the 1SG / Commander to see if it is possible to perform PT before your shift or after your shift. When i was an MP we had the same type of situation. Our PT was scheduled for 1.5 hours before shift. (when working swing or mid shift) 1 hour after shift if working days. However you have to "sell this to your command" and once you sell this to your command you have to follow through and do the PT as scheduled. (They can have the staff duty officer check on you guys to verify that you are indeed doing PT)
However what probably happened is folks were trying to get over and got caught. Have you ever heard the phrase "Embrace the suck"? Sometimes you just have to suck it up until you get the new command climate to trust you
However what probably happened is folks were trying to get over and got caught. Have you ever heard the phrase "Embrace the suck"? Sometimes you just have to suck it up until you get the new command climate to trust you
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I always loved it when RA personnel got into 'who's the toughest' wrangles. Of course, as a draftee...
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You resolve the issue by following orders. You are not elite and have no special talents that exempt you from PT or standing formation. In my day (early to mid 60's), you'd probably have gotten an article 15 for disobeying orders.
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You resolve it by going to PT. And standing formation is also your responsibility. In my day (early 60s), you would have been given an automatic article 15 for missing either of those.
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Go ti PT and get it over with. All of them higher ups have been in your spot. EMBRACE THE SUCK.
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Suck it up and drive on!!! If you were in a combat situation you'd be lucky to get 3 hrs nap. Change your priorities. Army nowadays has gotten soft. Just my opinion. And, everyone know's opinions are like A-holes everyone has one.
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Go to PT. Don't gripe about it, work at it.. The Service isn't a job, 9-5 or otherwise. It's your life while you're in. Oh yeah, and once you get the movements down, you can rest your mind while you tune your body. Better than sex. Well, maybe that's exaggerating a little.
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M*A*S*H* - movie theme song - opening
M*A*S*H* movie theme. NOT the TV theme. buy the movie, buy the DVDs.Check this one out too, from the movie https://youtu.be/ec2-DNriE8I
The only reason I joined the Army is because I wanted to live the life of the M.A.S.H. People.Possibly fly a helicopter ( mostly)
It was better on TV.
I never quit ever. I just kept struggling through it year after year, war after war.
My mom was a nurse and a tree hugger hippie, she believed in saving lives. I became a Sapper leader, Ranger, Aviator, Combat life save, and in the end I was tossed out of the army sadly, I think I could have kept it up and kept on, no SGT(P) you can't even wear a helmet anymore, you are too broken. If you fight anymore, "Anything will kill you." It is time for you to realize you did enough and go home..."
Fracking hate that poop. I could have done a bit more.
When I hear about people complaining about being in, when I know if I was still I was I might bea able to do them more than them....
Let them go, bring me back. Let me do what I know how to do. I never needed a helmet on AD once, why should it make a difference my neck does not want one now. I can stop jumping from Aircraft. Thats fair.
https://youtu.be/FgcGOWaTPdU?t=9
It was better on TV.
I never quit ever. I just kept struggling through it year after year, war after war.
My mom was a nurse and a tree hugger hippie, she believed in saving lives. I became a Sapper leader, Ranger, Aviator, Combat life save, and in the end I was tossed out of the army sadly, I think I could have kept it up and kept on, no SGT(P) you can't even wear a helmet anymore, you are too broken. If you fight anymore, "Anything will kill you." It is time for you to realize you did enough and go home..."
Fracking hate that poop. I could have done a bit more.
When I hear about people complaining about being in, when I know if I was still I was I might bea able to do them more than them....
Let them go, bring me back. Let me do what I know how to do. I never needed a helmet on AD once, why should it make a difference my neck does not want one now. I can stop jumping from Aircraft. Thats fair.
https://youtu.be/FgcGOWaTPdU?t=9
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As soon as I saw this post I deleted it. I just dug it out of my deleted file.
Like medical for 13.5 years I was a crew chief, I was as well for a tiny bit of time an enlisted pilot.
I understand 100% (or Army 110%). What you speak of.
I heard part of what you said about on the pt formation it was kinda like "the army of emptiness"
Just me saying that means I was in a harder army by a factor than yours soldier.
If you want it to stop talk to your IG or JAGG officer. Make every formation. You will want to leave with a honorable discharge.
Others mentioned the Army might not be for you. I get that. I enlisted in 85. OMG it was hard then and I can tell you my previous peers hondorus etc... they were like count yourself lucky you are here now and not then.
No about the regulations. If you are not strong enough to deal with this then this is really not the job for you.
You can manage your time to work through this transition.
This commander and 1st will like get called to the carpet by JAG or the BCSM or COL.
Now how you deal with it before that happens is up to you and the discharge you want to get...
So I am a Airborne Paratrooper. I am a crew chief, I am an aircraft structural repair man (I am a woman by the way)...
I started with Reagan and ended seconds before Obama...
For one reason and 1 reason only you can go to the IG and Say work/crew endurance.
You will get your way, and you will be out of the Army. Better you should be a liberal in a hospital than one working in the Army. Not GOOD FIT FOR YOU. iF YOU WERE MY SON i WOULD BE WORKING TO GET YOU OUT AS FAST AS POSSIBLE, FOR YOU.
Now back, in Iraq, Kosovo, I was so lucky to be on leave for 30 days (RIGHT never happens, soldier of the year). So I did not have to go to Panama. I was on vacation that month. NC Ca. They were like Sgt by the time you get home it will be done anyhow.
Basically it was MOSTLY.
Basic, you work 18 hours a day, PLDC you work 18 hours a day, BNOC 8 hours a day.
Look old timers back me up here....
Airborne school 12-18 hours a day, air assault school 12-18 hours a day.
Sapper school 24 hours a day..... (I passed Sapper Leader School).
Ranger I failed I quit.
Q Course. after rucking 50 miles I said. "I am so glad I passed and I don't have to do this anymore."
They said SGT, this is the training like Basic or Airborne was. You should probably, honestly quit now. We do this all of the time."
I quit. It saved my life, my marriage, my relationship with my children. Once I finally understood what I was doing I was happy to give and be in thAT SPOT.
I did it over and over as a Sapper Leader Airborne NCO Engineer.
New Company Commanders and 1Sgts they come in and have to assess, make changes, message the thinking in the unit.
They never do this too long. It is a transition.
I think you can complain and get a discharge. In the end if you can't do this, As a 82nd AVN, 20th Eng, 37th NCO, Sapper leader... I have to say this is not the life for you.
I thought like that before and I learned and got over it. Find a NCO to help you do good, good and great things or get out as fast as you can.
If you cant work 18-24 36, 42 hours at a time you cant ever be a engineer.
Just smoke some pot and get out on a general discharge. If you are too afraid to ask fo help you can do that.
The Army, we have too much training (work, our work is to train). We can't babysit and hand hold millennials. I understand. You are medical.
again 13.5 years CAB 82ND ABN. I would work that long and have my finger on the trigger for a hellfire. I never killed anyone that whas not shooting.
Grow stronger SPC, like I did, or get out and find a new vocation as a EMT.
I am not better than you. I am just different. I am offering you advice to move on. Help your unit, and your family as well as you.
After I worked 42 hours straight and fell asleep doing my job I really am not sure this is the job for you.
Like medical for 13.5 years I was a crew chief, I was as well for a tiny bit of time an enlisted pilot.
I understand 100% (or Army 110%). What you speak of.
I heard part of what you said about on the pt formation it was kinda like "the army of emptiness"
Just me saying that means I was in a harder army by a factor than yours soldier.
If you want it to stop talk to your IG or JAGG officer. Make every formation. You will want to leave with a honorable discharge.
Others mentioned the Army might not be for you. I get that. I enlisted in 85. OMG it was hard then and I can tell you my previous peers hondorus etc... they were like count yourself lucky you are here now and not then.
No about the regulations. If you are not strong enough to deal with this then this is really not the job for you.
You can manage your time to work through this transition.
This commander and 1st will like get called to the carpet by JAG or the BCSM or COL.
Now how you deal with it before that happens is up to you and the discharge you want to get...
So I am a Airborne Paratrooper. I am a crew chief, I am an aircraft structural repair man (I am a woman by the way)...
I started with Reagan and ended seconds before Obama...
For one reason and 1 reason only you can go to the IG and Say work/crew endurance.
You will get your way, and you will be out of the Army. Better you should be a liberal in a hospital than one working in the Army. Not GOOD FIT FOR YOU. iF YOU WERE MY SON i WOULD BE WORKING TO GET YOU OUT AS FAST AS POSSIBLE, FOR YOU.
Now back, in Iraq, Kosovo, I was so lucky to be on leave for 30 days (RIGHT never happens, soldier of the year). So I did not have to go to Panama. I was on vacation that month. NC Ca. They were like Sgt by the time you get home it will be done anyhow.
Basically it was MOSTLY.
Basic, you work 18 hours a day, PLDC you work 18 hours a day, BNOC 8 hours a day.
Look old timers back me up here....
Airborne school 12-18 hours a day, air assault school 12-18 hours a day.
Sapper school 24 hours a day..... (I passed Sapper Leader School).
Ranger I failed I quit.
Q Course. after rucking 50 miles I said. "I am so glad I passed and I don't have to do this anymore."
They said SGT, this is the training like Basic or Airborne was. You should probably, honestly quit now. We do this all of the time."
I quit. It saved my life, my marriage, my relationship with my children. Once I finally understood what I was doing I was happy to give and be in thAT SPOT.
I did it over and over as a Sapper Leader Airborne NCO Engineer.
New Company Commanders and 1Sgts they come in and have to assess, make changes, message the thinking in the unit.
They never do this too long. It is a transition.
I think you can complain and get a discharge. In the end if you can't do this, As a 82nd AVN, 20th Eng, 37th NCO, Sapper leader... I have to say this is not the life for you.
I thought like that before and I learned and got over it. Find a NCO to help you do good, good and great things or get out as fast as you can.
If you cant work 18-24 36, 42 hours at a time you cant ever be a engineer.
Just smoke some pot and get out on a general discharge. If you are too afraid to ask fo help you can do that.
The Army, we have too much training (work, our work is to train). We can't babysit and hand hold millennials. I understand. You are medical.
again 13.5 years CAB 82ND ABN. I would work that long and have my finger on the trigger for a hellfire. I never killed anyone that whas not shooting.
Grow stronger SPC, like I did, or get out and find a new vocation as a EMT.
I am not better than you. I am just different. I am offering you advice to move on. Help your unit, and your family as well as you.
After I worked 42 hours straight and fell asleep doing my job I really am not sure this is the job for you.
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SGT(P) Jody Hall
First is your commander a PhD in Physiology, psychology, or a infantry officer on 2nd duty. Either way the last thing I say will be the most important. Most everyone here suffered more than you. I think we will want to find you a honorable discharge out of the army soon. You can give me your 1sg my name and number private and I will advocate to get you out of the army in a few weeks.
Crew rest, crew endurance. Your commander and 1sg know they can do it for a while to teach discipline and the new norm, in the end there will be morning and noon PT.
They are showing you they are incharge and they are! Life, death they have to answer to mistakes. In a few weeks/months there is no unlawful order in that. It might look bad on their annual review if it does not improve metrics. Have you ever heard hedging your bets, doing what your mentour said should work? Your commander and 1sg, they are doing that.
The CSMA, and the COL (BDE) in charge will let them learn and figure it out for a minute.
You just need to keep your military bearing for 3-12 months for the OER and the NCOer for your commander and 1sg.
Follow your orders to the best of your abilities and not break your oath of enlistment.
I will fallow every lawful order. And if you keep reading, you can work until you can no longer stay awake. It is part of the job we signed up for.
It will work out soon. Your NCOs will make sure of it...
The Ssg/SFC platoon daddies, and the squad leaders, we have a LONG, VERY LONG history in the airborne of not only keeping 2ns, and 1st Lts alive we teach them. We lead them to be safe, and when necessary take the same risk as the PFC in thier platoon.
In the Airborne, by the time you go to Basic, Ait, Jump School, Sapper school for the 12B peeps, everyone is a PFC Spc.
So my son is an Engineer 2nd generation.
I am the 7th generation Army. In my family we did some crazy things.
All I can say is talk to your squad leader, your platoon daddy, you or your wife explain it to your 1st (not a great choice, it worked for me).
Strange place. I was letting my health fall for the mission. My wife went in and saw the commander and 1sg.
Then I went back to mission 12 hours a daw and was so happy I could get medical help and feel my fingers and tows again. Yes I was then a SGT I could not feel my fingers or toes, I went to work every day 12-16 hours a day.
I love this 16.5 year career I had. It had good and bad. I wish I was still in.
I think this is not the job for you.
The Army so slow on fixing things, took good care of me. Addicted to drinking, I told them I need help. They did.
Addicted to pain pills after my helicopter crash... I asked for help I did.
There was that last time I got hurt so bad I could no longer wear a "Ballistic helmet"
Fucking thing was like 10-13 pounds.
Army neurosurgeon kicked me out. 50% disabled. Slap in my face.
Me my son, my daughter, her husband, her step father, my exwife we all invite you to start a new thread,
"I am a medic that is overworked taking care of you and your family in the hospitol"
How can I get out of this job I am really not meatally equiped for this life....
The reason Why I joined the 82nd AVN BDE, then was forced to go Airborne?"
Television. I was going too be this person.
You are not this person, ask your Jag rep to get you out as soon as possible before you hurt someone in your stress and sorrow....
So do I know how to end a CSM or a MAJ thatis a company commander oh his second appointment as a company commander? Yes, because it happened in Iraq. Follow orders, ask your Squad leader for help, or the senior squad leader, or SSG platoon daddy for help when you did All I said.
SFC/SGT platoon daddies, they will take care of you, just think it over how to complain and ask for their help.
I joined aviation, then the Airborne, then the engineers for a reason. They are the best.
Put in your 4187 and request jumpschool and promise if they approve it you will never speak again.
I am medically retired from active duty. 50% disabled.
I say you should get out, how can I help you do that.....
I am an aviator.
I am a horizontal construction engineer.
I am A sapper leader of since 2001 from Ft. Leanowood.
I am a combat life saver.
Airborne we take care of everyone, we always need more people smart minded strong of heart. You are probably not that kind of soldier.
My son was in a "LEG, NAP, Not airborne personnel." in hawaii. He could not get a fair shake.
Mom I will work every day 8-10 hours a day, please get me out of here.
He is now out of the army, engineer, plumber, made about 30 jumps. retired (not in the army now no pay).
Thanks mom, they hated me. I was afraid to do it but you did it, step dad did it. I did it.
Thank you...
Take my sons words, get help, get the frack out, smoke some pot, geeneral discharge.
Or be like me, my son, my daughter, join the Airborne, the 82 MOSTLY, never plays those "Reindeer games,"
Eric do you waant out of the army, MOM, I have to do this for 5.5 more years yes please help...
He got airborne papers. He served his time, happily, honorable, with decorations.
Ask fo help or run away and lets chace you down like a dog.
Don't ask us how to get out of this PT, Ask us how to deal with it.
Crew rest, crew endurance. Your commander and 1sg know they can do it for a while to teach discipline and the new norm, in the end there will be morning and noon PT.
They are showing you they are incharge and they are! Life, death they have to answer to mistakes. In a few weeks/months there is no unlawful order in that. It might look bad on their annual review if it does not improve metrics. Have you ever heard hedging your bets, doing what your mentour said should work? Your commander and 1sg, they are doing that.
The CSMA, and the COL (BDE) in charge will let them learn and figure it out for a minute.
You just need to keep your military bearing for 3-12 months for the OER and the NCOer for your commander and 1sg.
Follow your orders to the best of your abilities and not break your oath of enlistment.
I will fallow every lawful order. And if you keep reading, you can work until you can no longer stay awake. It is part of the job we signed up for.
It will work out soon. Your NCOs will make sure of it...
The Ssg/SFC platoon daddies, and the squad leaders, we have a LONG, VERY LONG history in the airborne of not only keeping 2ns, and 1st Lts alive we teach them. We lead them to be safe, and when necessary take the same risk as the PFC in thier platoon.
In the Airborne, by the time you go to Basic, Ait, Jump School, Sapper school for the 12B peeps, everyone is a PFC Spc.
So my son is an Engineer 2nd generation.
I am the 7th generation Army. In my family we did some crazy things.
All I can say is talk to your squad leader, your platoon daddy, you or your wife explain it to your 1st (not a great choice, it worked for me).
Strange place. I was letting my health fall for the mission. My wife went in and saw the commander and 1sg.
Then I went back to mission 12 hours a daw and was so happy I could get medical help and feel my fingers and tows again. Yes I was then a SGT I could not feel my fingers or toes, I went to work every day 12-16 hours a day.
I love this 16.5 year career I had. It had good and bad. I wish I was still in.
I think this is not the job for you.
The Army so slow on fixing things, took good care of me. Addicted to drinking, I told them I need help. They did.
Addicted to pain pills after my helicopter crash... I asked for help I did.
There was that last time I got hurt so bad I could no longer wear a "Ballistic helmet"
Fucking thing was like 10-13 pounds.
Army neurosurgeon kicked me out. 50% disabled. Slap in my face.
Me my son, my daughter, her husband, her step father, my exwife we all invite you to start a new thread,
"I am a medic that is overworked taking care of you and your family in the hospitol"
How can I get out of this job I am really not meatally equiped for this life....
The reason Why I joined the 82nd AVN BDE, then was forced to go Airborne?"
Television. I was going too be this person.
You are not this person, ask your Jag rep to get you out as soon as possible before you hurt someone in your stress and sorrow....
So do I know how to end a CSM or a MAJ thatis a company commander oh his second appointment as a company commander? Yes, because it happened in Iraq. Follow orders, ask your Squad leader for help, or the senior squad leader, or SSG platoon daddy for help when you did All I said.
SFC/SGT platoon daddies, they will take care of you, just think it over how to complain and ask for their help.
I joined aviation, then the Airborne, then the engineers for a reason. They are the best.
Put in your 4187 and request jumpschool and promise if they approve it you will never speak again.
I am medically retired from active duty. 50% disabled.
I say you should get out, how can I help you do that.....
I am an aviator.
I am a horizontal construction engineer.
I am A sapper leader of since 2001 from Ft. Leanowood.
I am a combat life saver.
Airborne we take care of everyone, we always need more people smart minded strong of heart. You are probably not that kind of soldier.
My son was in a "LEG, NAP, Not airborne personnel." in hawaii. He could not get a fair shake.
Mom I will work every day 8-10 hours a day, please get me out of here.
He is now out of the army, engineer, plumber, made about 30 jumps. retired (not in the army now no pay).
Thanks mom, they hated me. I was afraid to do it but you did it, step dad did it. I did it.
Thank you...
Take my sons words, get help, get the frack out, smoke some pot, geeneral discharge.
Or be like me, my son, my daughter, join the Airborne, the 82 MOSTLY, never plays those "Reindeer games,"
Eric do you waant out of the army, MOM, I have to do this for 5.5 more years yes please help...
He got airborne papers. He served his time, happily, honorable, with decorations.
Ask fo help or run away and lets chace you down like a dog.
Don't ask us how to get out of this PT, Ask us how to deal with it.
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I was a firefighter working 24 hrs shifts. It wasn't unusual for us to get off a shift in the morning and go straight to PT. You are a military member and belong to the military 24/7. You are ready to perform whatever task they require of you at any time of day or week. The sooner you realize this the faster you can quit whining about it. If you can't follow orders then the military is not for you. Don't re-enlist.
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There are a bunch of "I remember when it was so hard" replies. When does the 0800-1600 shift do PT? Probably 0530; this gives time for clean-up and breakfast before the shift. When does the 0000-0800 shift do PT? Probably 1600; 8 hours before shift. That sucks! It sounds to me that the 1SG is stuck in a different timeframe, not around-the-clock shifts. The senior NCOs need to discuss with him a better shift/PT schedule. Something akin to the early shift that does PT 2.5 hours before shift. This gives equity to all the shifts. No one coming in 8 hours early for PT and no one conducting PT with minimal sleep. It also aligns better with the rest of the Army's 10/11-hour days.
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Cant speak to the culture of todays military but there was a combat readiness requirement that physical conditioning was a significant factor in years past. Professional soldiers are fit physically and mentally. If you are looking for a reason to not follow his lawful order then apply for a deferment based on your physical issues or mental desire to be exempt from the oath you took when raising your right hand.
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Sorry butter cup but do your job that includes being physically fit. The enemy won't care you only got 4 or 5 hours sleep. Learn to overcome what you precieve as unfair and realize in the end you'll be tougher, more fit and better able to survive what's thrown your way
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Wow, I remember those days. However, I would present to your 1SG a solution to your problem versus "sounding" like a complaint. In my junior days on active duty, I was majority shift work. We presented that the section can do PT as a group outside of the company formation. If, however, we had an APFT failure, they would have to do PT with the company and additional PT. That was how it was presented, and our particular 1SGs were accommodating because they understood the difficulties of shift work. But you know your PLT SGT and 1SG. Ensure you can convey the proposed solution, pros, and cons, and articulate possible questions they may have. Also, the Section NCO would provide a daily PERSTAT to 1SG.
That should get you started.
Just realized this is a bunch of years old......oh well.
That should get you started.
Just realized this is a bunch of years old......oh well.
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Wow. Is this for real? You joined the military and this is what you're complaining about? Maybe you should have joined the Boy Scouts instead.
I guess the Navy trained us to do anything drunk/hungover because a lot of days there wasn't any sleep...
I can't believe someone actually asked this...
I guess the Navy trained us to do anything drunk/hungover because a lot of days there wasn't any sleep...
I can't believe someone actually asked this...
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How do you bring it up? Have you tried bringing it up to your supervisor? Maybe they will let you show up to the 1600 formation, then go to work? I would not say it is whining to ask the question. Complaining about the answer would be whining. Oh and FYI, you are going to have to explain yourself until people can trust you. That is just a fact of life.
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I would just go to sleep after PT. When I was on a shift like that I went to sleep at 0800.
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It sounds to me like your best bet is to do what you’re directed to do until your ETS date. Then ETS and you won’t have to worry about those mean 1SG’s making you do PT anymore.
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Suck it up butter cup! As a few troops here have mentioned being on time after a hard night's drinking just in time for a 5 mile fun run and a day of humping 204 pound projectiles! You can do it!!!
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Your in the military lack of sleep is normal. As the saying goes suck it up and get to pt or get out. When you get into battle the enemy isn't gonna say go take a nap and we'll come back. Sheesh I bet you can party all night and still go party some more
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I would work a 10-12 hour 3rd shift, go to PT in the morning, then go home and rack out. If there's an opportunity to switch shifts, I would say go for it. If not, then you may need to work better at your time management during your off time from when PT ends to when your next shift begins which seems like a pretty large gap in time.
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I am encouraged that most officers and senior NCOs here agree on the same solution; namely take it up the chain of command. Good NCOs take care of their men. Good officers take care of their men. But don't forget that the guy in charge makes the final decision. Otherwise we don't have an army - we have a mob. That answers the kid's question. Nuff said. Let's move on...
Oops, sorry about only talking about the army. The same goes for the rest of the other lesser branches of military service as well. Just kidding!!!
Oops, sorry about only talking about the army. The same goes for the rest of the other lesser branches of military service as well. Just kidding!!!
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This is the job. The military doesn't give you the option of making a schedule for sleep, you have to make do. During PMCS you may be able to sneak in a nap but all lower enlisted goes to work with very little sleep at times. Suck it up soldier...
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Back in my day, (damn I sound old) FM-22 only mandated you get 4 hours... now it's 7 non consecutive hours in a 24 hour period so... get 4, do PT, shower, eat, and go back to sleep. Problem solved.
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Go through your chain of command to bring up the issues. Everyone knows that while on active duty you have to do PT. You are lucky that you have a choice of what time you want to pt. It sounds like your 1SG is trying to make a point. If you have shift to work from 1600-0000 and have the rest of the day for yourself then do the 0530 and by 7 ish you should be done and in the rack.
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I'm 74, at your age, I could get 4 hours of sleep, rise at 0400 and do hours of exercise, work a full day, party a little and do it over again. If you are under 60, suck it up, cause I still do it daily on 6 hours of sleep or less, running a horse rescue. I am sorry, you need to know you will never grow old if you keep your mind and body in shape, and get a better attitude. Your 1SG & CO are only looking after the health and welfare of their people. And for heaven's sake quit whining.
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Well, how about 1500 PT? I propose that, and tell the shirt you will maintain the sign-in sheet.
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If your section sergeant feels the same way as you, then he/she should suggest to your 1SG/CDR if your sections could conduct PT at 1430 -1530, right before work, and ask them to join you guys in PT. The command is only looking out for your health, wellness and wellbeing. They understand that they inherited a company that does section PT because of the shift workers and l'm sure that your leadership attends morning/leaders mtg, they should be addressing the issue. Anyway, passing the PT test keeps you in the military and the only way to do that is to stay fit and to stay fit is to do PT. So it's part "time management" on your side and part "personnel management" on the command side
I use to work in the hospital, LRMC, so I've been there and done that with working clinic hours and shift work hours ER/ EMS.
I use to work in the hospital, LRMC, so I've been there and done that with working clinic hours and shift work hours ER/ EMS.
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Go explain it to whoever your supposed to report to for your shift, or the tippy top person that they fall under. Then ask them to go clear it up. If it's an officer that you fall under then your Top's balls will moat likely get grilled.... win/win
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Ahhh…this new Army. I’m sure there’s a career out there for someone of your caliber who needs 8 hours of sleep. When I was in Iraq I needed at least 8 hours of sleep before I could do my duties. I just don’t understand why your command won’t grant your wish!
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First, follow orders. Learning to do so will save your life one day. Second, assess the situation before you take it to the chain. Perform the function as instructed for at least 1 month. THEN provide feedback to the command as to the feasibility and or fatigue state of the crew impact. Be able to identify the negative readiness impact on your section. If you can't do this it will be considered whining or complaining. Your feedback needs to be for the betterment of the Armed Forces not for yourself. When you take it to the chain start at the bottom! Follow the appropriate chain of command - ask to have the issue elevated if it feels stalled. You will gain a better understanding of each member's issues and concerns along the way not to mention respect for doing so.
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Just speaking generally here. In the USCG at least, only the mid-watch, (0000-0400 or 0000-0800 depending on specific unit or watch,) was exempted from morning quarters. 0000-0400 was allowed rack time until 1000, 0000-0800 was generally off until their next duty. On SAR stations, if you had a call that either began after 0000 or ended after 0000, you were generally allowed to sleep in as needed. Calls 6 to 8 hours or more on a cold, dark, stormy night are nothing to be sneered at.
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Short answer, life is not going to bend over backwards for you, in the military or out, so embrace the suck.
You've got options here. Senior leadershipay not see it, but the fact is military life doesn't always run on a 24 hour clock. Sometimes it runs on 12 or 15. It takes a couple weeks to adjust to that.
On my deployments, General Quarters and main space fire drills took place in the dead middle of the off periods for the 2330-0530/1130-1730 watches and lasted a good 2 hours.
First option: run a 12 hour day. Up at 1530 on one, work til 0001, in bed at 0100. Up at 0500, pt 2 hours or whatever, then a mix of sleep and personal time til 1530.
The new command is throwing it's weight around, that's all. This crap lasts a week at most, then stops.
Second choice: PT on your own and don't show up at formation. This will probably get you an article 15. More on this in a minute.
Third choice: talk to your immediate supervisor. He or she should be able to find out what the new chain of command expects in PT formation, and then have your shift do their own pt either right before or right after work.
The best solution, though, is the first one, at least til your NCO gets a new formation time approved. There are going to be times when you're running in empty and more needed of you, day after day. In this case, the only consequence if you fail is an Article 15 for missing PT (don't scrimp on patient care to make it to formation). In a war zone, the consequences could include loss of your entire unit. If your chain of command never pushed you like this, you wouldn't be prepared for war.
Upper leadership shouldn't act all shocked that this happens. If your soldiers can't handle this, they're not fit for combat. It should motivate them to PT on their own after a few days, then the stupid PT muster time can be changed or dropped. If they don't respond to it, there's a process for separating those who can't meet the physical fitness requirements. They don't deploy, and after the third failed PRT, they get an admin sep.
Civilian life doesn't always run on a 24 hour clock either. You might separate and find yourself working two jobs to make ends meet and have those exact same hours. In that case, they're not going to change just for you, one or both of them is gonna dismiss you. Civilian hospital employees are on call 24/7 and sometimes go a day or two without personal/family time and short on sleep. They're not on base with the hospital right there, they may have to commute 1 1/2 hours each way or stay overnight in an empty room.
You've got options here. Senior leadershipay not see it, but the fact is military life doesn't always run on a 24 hour clock. Sometimes it runs on 12 or 15. It takes a couple weeks to adjust to that.
On my deployments, General Quarters and main space fire drills took place in the dead middle of the off periods for the 2330-0530/1130-1730 watches and lasted a good 2 hours.
First option: run a 12 hour day. Up at 1530 on one, work til 0001, in bed at 0100. Up at 0500, pt 2 hours or whatever, then a mix of sleep and personal time til 1530.
The new command is throwing it's weight around, that's all. This crap lasts a week at most, then stops.
Second choice: PT on your own and don't show up at formation. This will probably get you an article 15. More on this in a minute.
Third choice: talk to your immediate supervisor. He or she should be able to find out what the new chain of command expects in PT formation, and then have your shift do their own pt either right before or right after work.
The best solution, though, is the first one, at least til your NCO gets a new formation time approved. There are going to be times when you're running in empty and more needed of you, day after day. In this case, the only consequence if you fail is an Article 15 for missing PT (don't scrimp on patient care to make it to formation). In a war zone, the consequences could include loss of your entire unit. If your chain of command never pushed you like this, you wouldn't be prepared for war.
Upper leadership shouldn't act all shocked that this happens. If your soldiers can't handle this, they're not fit for combat. It should motivate them to PT on their own after a few days, then the stupid PT muster time can be changed or dropped. If they don't respond to it, there's a process for separating those who can't meet the physical fitness requirements. They don't deploy, and after the third failed PRT, they get an admin sep.
Civilian life doesn't always run on a 24 hour clock either. You might separate and find yourself working two jobs to make ends meet and have those exact same hours. In that case, they're not going to change just for you, one or both of them is gonna dismiss you. Civilian hospital employees are on call 24/7 and sometimes go a day or two without personal/family time and short on sleep. They're not on base with the hospital right there, they may have to commute 1 1/2 hours each way or stay overnight in an empty room.
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SPC(P) Davis - I may feel your pain but I have no sympathy for you. Callous? Pretty sure that I am with my comment. Your brothers and sisters in arms are the tip of the proverbial spear and if lucky exist on 8 hours of sleep spread out over 3 days. Your comment indicates you are assigned to a hospital. Seek out any Medic at your unit who has served in an active combat zone - ask them to tell you about a typical day while serving with a combat unit.
I worked with an Air Force reserve nurse who deployed several times to a hospital in Baghdad, Iraq whose mission was trying to save the lives of Soldiers, Airman, Marines, and Sailors who were critically injured by snipers, suicide bombers, or roadside IEDs. She didn't want to talk about it at work but she did (still does) have a strong support group. I know a former Army Medic sho suffered from PTSD - why you ask? Squirrel (his nickname) was hung up on "I couldn't save them all." I don't imagine he got a lot of sleep on active duty and know without "chemical" help he spent many a sleepless night - even in rehab.
I won't insult you with some of the comments that could come your way, have come your way, or not; but I grew up in the military starting as an immature 18 year old in 1970 and used to listen to the more "senior" enlisted (when they were in a sharing mood) say it all works out in twenty years. It does.
On a side note, but related to PT: I'm 70-1/2 years old and at the direction of my Primary Care Doctor, my Cardiologist, and the Cardio-Thoracic Surgeon I start PT 2 days a week, for 2 hours a day, for 12 weeks. At least I have the luxury of picking what time of day I get to start. I opted for the afternoon session. Is it mandatory. No but it is voluntary; but if I want to live beyond 70-1/2 years old I need to do it. On the 1st of December last year (It seems like it just happened - wait it did!) I had a Triple Bypass. After 30 years of dealing with cardiac issues I finally had a team of doctors who all agreed that the bypass surgery was a life saver for me.
So SPC(P) Davis when the "whistle" blows for PT fall in sharply and due the best you can - you could end up in a combat zone where sleep comes in 10 - 15 minutes pauses in between casualties. I don't know what your MOS is but you're assigned to a hospital so I suspect its a medical field related job - you may not be a medic working in a squad, platoon, or company but you won't be far from the action; and you will probably reflect on those days when a few hours of your sleep were interrupted by PT.
I worked with an Air Force reserve nurse who deployed several times to a hospital in Baghdad, Iraq whose mission was trying to save the lives of Soldiers, Airman, Marines, and Sailors who were critically injured by snipers, suicide bombers, or roadside IEDs. She didn't want to talk about it at work but she did (still does) have a strong support group. I know a former Army Medic sho suffered from PTSD - why you ask? Squirrel (his nickname) was hung up on "I couldn't save them all." I don't imagine he got a lot of sleep on active duty and know without "chemical" help he spent many a sleepless night - even in rehab.
I won't insult you with some of the comments that could come your way, have come your way, or not; but I grew up in the military starting as an immature 18 year old in 1970 and used to listen to the more "senior" enlisted (when they were in a sharing mood) say it all works out in twenty years. It does.
On a side note, but related to PT: I'm 70-1/2 years old and at the direction of my Primary Care Doctor, my Cardiologist, and the Cardio-Thoracic Surgeon I start PT 2 days a week, for 2 hours a day, for 12 weeks. At least I have the luxury of picking what time of day I get to start. I opted for the afternoon session. Is it mandatory. No but it is voluntary; but if I want to live beyond 70-1/2 years old I need to do it. On the 1st of December last year (It seems like it just happened - wait it did!) I had a Triple Bypass. After 30 years of dealing with cardiac issues I finally had a team of doctors who all agreed that the bypass surgery was a life saver for me.
So SPC(P) Davis when the "whistle" blows for PT fall in sharply and due the best you can - you could end up in a combat zone where sleep comes in 10 - 15 minutes pauses in between casualties. I don't know what your MOS is but you're assigned to a hospital so I suspect its a medical field related job - you may not be a medic working in a squad, platoon, or company but you won't be far from the action; and you will probably reflect on those days when a few hours of your sleep were interrupted by PT.
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Adjust and overcome you voluntarily accepted to join the the finest and BEST military in the world you HAVE to adjust and overcome any obstacle it’s mine over matter
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Wow! Only 5 showed up to what I can only assume is a Co. C.O. ordered event. I think maybe there are greater problems within this unit.
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Quit being a pushy or get out of the military. Suck it up and drive on soldier
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Sounds like you're whining. I have come in to do PT on 1/2 hour's sleep, and it didn't have any adverse effects. And you're on the E-5 list? You should know better. Here's an idea - run the issue past your NCO support channel and see what they say. Use the Chain of Command. It's been known to work
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You said it yourself, you're "junior" enlisted. You go to PT and get it done. Not sure why this is even a question. You want out of it? Show your first shirt you're a PT stud. Max out E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G and he'll find someone else to focus on. Until you can do that, you need to understand you're at the bottom of the food chain and anything you do to stir the pot is going to make things harder on you.
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Is this daily? or a few times a week? I'd say suck it up, PT and keep yourself fit.
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You don't solve this. You get off your butt and get busy. As our DS told us, in 1969, will you be complaining about being tired as you are being shot at? I worked out with stress fractures in both feet. Of course, I'm paying for that now, but we had only a couple of ways to get out of PT and neither was much of a choice.
You enlisted and these men are there to train you and maybe save your life later. I hated them at the time but I learned I could handle much more than I thought.
You enlisted and these men are there to train you and maybe save your life later. I hated them at the time but I learned I could handle much more than I thought.
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My Co had a perfect response to a 2nd Lt. that complained his men weren't getting enough sleep. Understand we were in a active combat area, all he said was "The Army says a solider only needs 2 hours sleep a day, be happy with that". My Co was a West Pointer and highly respected by all of us that served under him. Not getting sleep is good training for after the service, whether is working 36 hours straight on double time or a party weekend.
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I would go ask hospital leadership. What did you learn about self care right here at Ft Sam? If you're not medical, yeah, get your butt to formation. If you are, talk to your team leader. Then go up the line.
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Man up soldier. Quit whining about and just do it.
Dang I would so hate to be in todays army where newbies pull stress cards and people whine about not getting enough sleep and being overworked. Back in the ‘80’s to early 2000 we had each others backs, we stood up together, and we did what we were told to do. Period.
Dang I would so hate to be in todays army where newbies pull stress cards and people whine about not getting enough sleep and being overworked. Back in the ‘80’s to early 2000 we had each others backs, we stood up together, and we did what we were told to do. Period.
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I don’t know why I’m just getting an email about this 3 years after it was posted, but I do have an opinion about this.
It’s BS, and so are a lot of these comments. “Going to clubs and showing up to PT.”
“You can sleep after PT.”
Those are all BS, old school answers. And quite honestly, those answers have no place these days. Congratulations. Some of these commenters had shitty lives in their careers and expect everyone else to also have a shitty life.
The correct answer is that people’s leadership need to take into account each of their soldiers’ schedules and plan/accommodate accordingly.
If someone works 1600-0000, they should be allowed to do PT on their own at whatever time they, individually, feel necessary. Whether it’s at 0030, 0600, 1400, whatever. If they check in through text/call (in place of a formal formation), I don’t see an issue.
It’s BS, and so are a lot of these comments. “Going to clubs and showing up to PT.”
“You can sleep after PT.”
Those are all BS, old school answers. And quite honestly, those answers have no place these days. Congratulations. Some of these commenters had shitty lives in their careers and expect everyone else to also have a shitty life.
The correct answer is that people’s leadership need to take into account each of their soldiers’ schedules and plan/accommodate accordingly.
If someone works 1600-0000, they should be allowed to do PT on their own at whatever time they, individually, feel necessary. Whether it’s at 0030, 0600, 1400, whatever. If they check in through text/call (in place of a formal formation), I don’t see an issue.
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Says "I don't want to whine" starts whining. :)
On submarine duty, there were qualifications, watch duty, training, more qualifications, field day, more trainng, more quals...pulled a 54 hr straight once on ten pots of coffee and I hit my goal being a hot runner on quals and supported the watch roatation, so, if you are going to whine about a little PT this ain't the gig for you in life...go manage a Wendy's.
On submarine duty, there were qualifications, watch duty, training, more qualifications, field day, more trainng, more quals...pulled a 54 hr straight once on ten pots of coffee and I hit my goal being a hot runner on quals and supported the watch roatation, so, if you are going to whine about a little PT this ain't the gig for you in life...go manage a Wendy's.
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Great question! I have a dear friend that doesn't say he was a veteran because he was in Korea his SSG didn't like him so for a year. Made him work as mechanic and then do 8 hours as mail man Korean mail. Wasn't dishonorable but wasn't honorable would love to fix, Great guy!
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Shut up and obay your orders.
End of the story.
End of the story.
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