Posted on Dec 8, 2015
I don't understand. Why didn't this Marine earn the Medal of Honor for his actions that day?
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Medal of Honor
Operation Iraqi Freedom (OIF)
Marines
Awards
Deputy Sheriff
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 39
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SPC (Join to see) he should have been awarded the MOH. I was over there during that time and heard of his gallantry. A hero!
CPL Andrew Cox PV2 (Join to see) PV2 Violet Case PV2 Abbott Shaull PV2 Alaina Norman PFC (Join to see) PFC Stephens Clark PFC Zanie Young PFC Steve Wade PFC Kyle Corcoran SGT(P) (Join to see) PFC Stephen Eric Serati SPC (Join to see) SPC Michael Murphy SPC Shilo Davenport SGT Shaul Funt SGT (Join to see) SSG (Join to see) CPL(P) Bret Farritor
CPL Andrew Cox PV2 (Join to see) PV2 Violet Case PV2 Abbott Shaull PV2 Alaina Norman PFC (Join to see) PFC Stephens Clark PFC Zanie Young PFC Steve Wade PFC Kyle Corcoran SGT(P) (Join to see) PFC Stephen Eric Serati SPC (Join to see) SPC Michael Murphy SPC Shilo Davenport SGT Shaul Funt SGT (Join to see) SSG (Join to see) CPL(P) Bret Farritor
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SSG Warren Swan
I'm at a loss on this Marine and the other Marine (Sgt Rafael Peralta) who was supposedly shot in the head seconds before falling on a grenade in their truck saving the lives of everyone inside. Sure he got a Navy Ship named after him, but this is wrong. We need to do better. It's an award no one really wants, but if they're deserving of it, the behind the scenes BS needs to stop.
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SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL
SFC Craig Dalen - I am a victim of the system too. I never got the Bronze Star, I was deserved. You know, now my career is over. It's sweeter than any award. Glad to have served when looking back.
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PV2 Abbott Shaull
Sounds like MoH material to me. One of the sad things when you hear story like this all the time of someone who went unnoticed, when they did something like this.
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As an E-3? He's lucky he got more than a COA with his name misspelled....Welcome to politics..
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CPO Lauren Farrow
The day you're standing in formation and hear someone else getting a Navy Com for something you did.
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CPL Steve Connolly
Politics and friendships Bullshit kept me from simply being promoted to buck Sgt. People in front of me unable to pass PT and weight were promoted in front of me when I was in country. Bastards even changed my rightful rank of Cpl. To Spc. ! Finally after deployment I said f this! The military is not what it once was at all!
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PO2 Jacob Troxel
When you go and do something as brave as that rank should have no bearing on what award you get.
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Failure of his leadership and those who were there to recommend him for the higher award.
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it comes down to chain of command. If your chain of command has people that don't know you and/or don't like you, you are lucky to get anything. I've seen FOBITs get CABs, bronze stars, silver stars who never saw combat, never went outside the wire. While you had dozens of guys who went outside the wire get shot at, hit with IEDs, get into firefights and then get nothing but a coin and a handshake because they where not infantry or where not high enough in rank
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CPO Lauren Farrow
Also can't downplay the role of a good story teller. I served with this one guy: let him tell it, he was defending the Free World single-handedly. And calling me into his office to show him how to use his computer. But he put himself in for a Legion of Merit. For real. E7 at a staff command was convinced he deserved a LOM.
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So yes I am white and I know it and don't want to turn this into a race issue but we still have that issue in the military we would be stupid to say it's not but I looked up on Google how many blacks recited the moh it gave me a brief history lesson it wasn't in till bill Clinton had military records reviewed did blacks start getting awarded this. I was unable to copy and paste link. When I was in I had an issue with being with the blind masses I also have issue with people who make something from nothing. The kids own Sargent was wounded no idea of race or injury status plus I don't remember what year he did this hopefully it is just a paperwork issue and not anouther casualty to race. ( I did not mean any dissemination or disrespect by my comments but sometimes it is better for someone ells of a diffrent race to pick up this flag and say it is not right.) ( I had an encounter with a black man that opened my eyes to the race issue his statement to anouther black man will for ever stick with me.) His un edited statement to other guy.
It is niggers like you that make it hard for black men like me. If I ever catch you using your skin color as a reason someone won't do something for you I will end you myself. He said this while holding the guy up off his feet by his neck. The guy who said this coverd found and set him straight with no hesitation I was shocked. And gained a new respect for others. Plz keep in mind I do not mean to disrespect or offend anyone.
It is niggers like you that make it hard for black men like me. If I ever catch you using your skin color as a reason someone won't do something for you I will end you myself. He said this while holding the guy up off his feet by his neck. The guy who said this coverd found and set him straight with no hesitation I was shocked. And gained a new respect for others. Plz keep in mind I do not mean to disrespect or offend anyone.
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CPO Lauren Farrow
Maj Thomas Cox - Man, let me send you some coffee so you can wake up. Minorities have historically been under-represented when it comes to military awards. Go read about the USS Mason and get back with me. That's just one example.
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Maj Thomas Cox
Lauren...I'm pretty sure that since this medal is given sparingly, that there are people of all races that were left out. There are always people left out...I'm sure some could be attributed to racism. However, If it was as systemic as you intimate, no minorities would have ever been recognized. As a CPO, I'd expect your tone to be a little more professional and little less condescending.
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Probably because no one recommended him, supported it, and/or they were lacking witnesses.
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COL Charles Williams
CPO Lauren Farrow - Thank you. Then, either his chain of command did not think the MOH was wanted, or those in the approval chain did not. Hard telling. There is no exact science to valor awards, or many processes we use. Conspicuous Gallantry and an Intrepidity at the Risk of Life above and beyond the call of duty is largely subjective.
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COL Charles Williams
Why do people down vote and say nothing? WTF? And why do we have folks on here with the name of Servicemember...
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TSgt (Join to see)
There are many variables unknown. Having good writers in your unit can make a big difference when a deserving persons package is sitting on a col or generals desk. It's how the action are portrayed on paper. I was an aerostat operator as a contractor and we had a helicopter with mechanical issues land right outside our FOB. The story was wrote that there were 15 to 20 enemy shooting at the helicopter. I only saw 2 or 3, but the NCO wanted to write a strong package for all the aviation marines to receive combat action medals. It's not right, but I applaud that NCO for recognizing everyone involved with recovering the helicopter
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1LT William Clardy
SSG Mike Busovicki, your officers are not the "planning team" -- they *have* to be able to move out with you and lead under fire. Not all combat ops consist of squad-size patrols sallying forth from a secure base of operations -- that butterbar's job description includes running around under fire leading a full platoon (or, on a really bad day, what's left of a company) in offensive combat operations, and that's a whole lot more leading than planning.
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SPC (Join to see) The Medal of Honor has some very specific requirements that must be met in order for a person to be considered. The first and most important is that it must involve a serious and immediate risk to life while in direct contact with enemy forces. There is no question that standard was met here. Another is that the act must have actually accomplished something, e.g. lives saved, mission accomplished, etc. It is pretty clear that lives were saved as a direct result of his actions.
There are a couple of standards, however, where this act appears to fall short. One is that the act must put the nominee in more danger than if he had not performed it. I'm not sure that is the case here, since he was already in the midst of the ambush. In other words, he didn't voluntarily put himself in the line of fire, he was already in the line of fire to begin with. The other (and most compelling in this case) is that the act must be completely voluntary. This means that it is something that is not expected of him and that there will be absolutely no negative repercussion if he does not do it. I think it could be argued that if a Marine finds himself in an ambush and members of his platoon are injured and taking fire, he is expected to take action. I think that he probably would not have fared well if he had simply sat and cowered behind the wheel of his vehicle while members of his platoon were slaughtered.
This Marine did very well. His actions surely saved lives and were a credit to himself and to his uniform. This case, as outlined in the article, does not appear to merit the MoH.
There are a couple of standards, however, where this act appears to fall short. One is that the act must put the nominee in more danger than if he had not performed it. I'm not sure that is the case here, since he was already in the midst of the ambush. In other words, he didn't voluntarily put himself in the line of fire, he was already in the line of fire to begin with. The other (and most compelling in this case) is that the act must be completely voluntary. This means that it is something that is not expected of him and that there will be absolutely no negative repercussion if he does not do it. I think it could be argued that if a Marine finds himself in an ambush and members of his platoon are injured and taking fire, he is expected to take action. I think that he probably would not have fared well if he had simply sat and cowered behind the wheel of his vehicle while members of his platoon were slaughtered.
This Marine did very well. His actions surely saved lives and were a credit to himself and to his uniform. This case, as outlined in the article, does not appear to merit the MoH.
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PO2 Wesley Wilson
SPC (Join to see) Very informative and correct. IT also need to be noted the a MOH nomination often takes years to review and very often the potential recipient has no idea the he is being considered until the final stages of the process.
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PO3 Brandon Hall
Thanks for taking the time to explain the MOH requirements. I guess I disagree a bit with your final two points. While you are right that he did not voluntarily put himself in the initial line of fire, he certainly voluntarily put himself in it multiple additional times to retrieve his fellow marines. He was definitely in more danger than he would have been otherwise by re-entering the kill zone multiple times. He could have taken cover behind the truck until help arrived if he wanted. Which brings me to the repercussions.
I think you may be interpreting negative repercussions kind of broadly. I believe in this sense it is speaking of legal type repercussions. While people may have disagreed, and even shunned him if he took cover and waited, he would not be in any trouble for doing so. It may have been expected of him to run out ther, but I doubt it is required. I guess our different interpretations is why it takes so long to actually award the MOH.
I think you may be interpreting negative repercussions kind of broadly. I believe in this sense it is speaking of legal type repercussions. While people may have disagreed, and even shunned him if he took cover and waited, he would not be in any trouble for doing so. It may have been expected of him to run out ther, but I doubt it is required. I guess our different interpretations is why it takes so long to actually award the MOH.
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SGT Robert Deem
PO3 Brandon Hall You make some strong arguments, but I don't think we'd be having this discussion if he'd been chilling back at the FOB, heard this come over the radio, and rushed to the rescue from a position of complete safety and in the absence of orders. There was a time when this award was given away for anything that could be construed as bravery. Some Civil War soldiers received the MoH just for reenlisting! Now the standards are just so incredibly high, that they literally have to be met "beyond a shadow of doubt". Consider the case of Marine Sergeant Rafael Peralta. He used his own body to shield his fellow Marines from a grenade blast, but was not awarded the MoH because it could not be proven that he was not already mortally wounded and dying.
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SGT (Join to see)
I really don't see this case as being that different from Army SSG Salvatore Giunta who was awarded the MOH for running back into enemy fire after being ambushed to get his squad mates to safety.
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