If Army policy changes to permit service by transgender/intersex personnel, what accommodations should leaders consider?

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca Sir, I disagree. Statistically the majority of the time there are two biological "sexes." But even these two aren't 100%. Hence the word 'inter-sexed.' Sometimes the genetic code doesn't assign a full set of sex characteristics to an individual. Gender is totally different, it is a set of customs and societal norms. As a military we have a set of societal customs and norms 'warrior', heavily influenced by the gender of "men" but have recently allowed the admittance of the gender of "women." This creates some clashes inherently, and it gets worse with people who are 'gender non-conforming' or inter-sexed. As I mentioned in my own post, the only way to really deal with this is to stop caring about 'gender- man or -woman' and only care about 'warrior.'

Capt Richard I P. I can agree with the concept you present in your post, It would make life easier from a military standpoint. I'm not sure anyone is ready to buy off on a unisex military let alone its implications on society as one would still be identifying with a gender for other than military standards purposes. Interesting thought process though.

Read about the Spartans. They were considered the most incredible warriors ever. They were homosexuals, at least in the field. I do not subscribe to that because I am Catholic, but do not throw away people because of this. See if your Chaplain can help you with this.

Totally concur. We need to not worry about it and just go to a gender neutral or gender nonexistent force. Navy is having so many growing pains based on assignment of living spaces on ships by sex/gender. Once we reach this goal of gender neutrality you talk about SPC David S. then, and only then, can we get on with true integration of women into all of combat arms.

CMDCM Gene Treants. Admirable Sentiments!!! Kinda like Aliens or New BattleStar Galactica!!! Warmest Regards, Sandy

I know our society is not ready for this yet, but I can hope the military will lead the way!

1LT Sandy Annala and Starship Troopers...

SSG Daniel Deiler. Forget *poof* . . . boom . . . a mine or IED goes off . . . and you loose everything below your hips . . . do you cease to be a man? Warmest Regards, Sandy

1LT Sandy Annala I agree with you that it has very little to do with genitalia. It has to do with my DNA. Just because a person feels and acts masculine or effeminate cannot change that. If I were a commander my main concern would be the good order and discipline of my unit as well as its morale. Telling and mandating that the Soldiers of my unit feel a certain way erodes at both of those and would make my unit far less effective. I can play by the rules and follow the rule of the law, but if a person does not agree with the spirit of the law, rule or policy, you just lost that Soldiers loyalty and respect.

SSG Daniel Deiler. Perfectly understandable . . . this is why we had to work so very hard to persuade our soldiers to tolerate . . . then accept . . . then integrate . . . women, minorities, non-christians, gays, and lesbians . . . and now a very few intersex / transgender troops . . . into our military services. We don't just tell our troops . . . we introduce them to our new brothers and sisters as peers to be respected . . . persuade everyone to drop their preconceptions . . . and them a chance to get to know each other as individuals and soldiers . . . this has worked many times before . . . and will work many times again. We may lose a few intolerant medieval bigoted individuals from the service . . . we will readily heal from these losses. Warmest Regards, Sandy

Confused is the wrong term in this instance. As a homosexual male, do you like white, tan, red, brown or black? I will tell you my wife is white. However, I will tell you I found all skin tones to be attractive. That being said, I find women attractive, not men. Never have I said I want to get with a man, and I will agree there are some seriously sexy men out here. I don't want any of them. Does that mean, if someone disagrees with me on whom they want to have intimate relations (or otherwise f@c<), they cannot defend their country along side me? NO!

MAJ (Join to see). Admirable Sentiments!!! Warmest Regards, Sandy

SGT (Join to see) thank you for your response...I always try to be open to discussion :) Even when I disagree I cannot tell another person that their feelings and thoughts are wrong no matter how vehemently I disagree. This is one of those cases. Due to my faith and upbringing, I believe that a person is born wired to be heterosexual and then based upon the environment the child is brought up in, the individual can develop to become more masculine or effeminate and identify with the same sex. I believe that when God created man, he hard wired us to be hetero and therefore it is not a choice. I will like to point out however if a person chooses not to be that I do not look at them any differently or judge them unjustly. While I may not agree with a particular lifestyle they have every right to live life just the same way I do and should be afforded every opportunity that I have as well. :)

Personally I think It is too soon to just up and allow transgenders from entering the service ma'am it took years to allow homosexuals to join freely. And it has it's ups and downs. Male on male sexual assaults on the rise and still have issues (minor but noticeable) with either disdainment or special favors based on sexual orientation. It will take time to accept the current changes. Let us not also forget religious vews that we cannot deny, but also accommodate. Personally I preach (and practice) the Green Soldier technique. No Color but Green no gender but Soldier. However we are a culture of Conformity and uniformity. Sometimes Bigotry is still around and cannot be completely squashed but I will say Transgenders are not everywhere (I came from a small town no Homosexuals and no Transgenders) and one can only imagine how many others have the same roots. we need leaders who can keep the peace and balance the views of each Soldier with the Army Values. And to do this we need a New breed of Leaders that are trained to accept the rapid changes in the outside world before we can go into a subject like that. For an example Women started in the Service under the WAC (Women's Army Corps) in 15 May 1942 and wasn't disbanded until 1978 and its members were fully integrated into the Regular Army with their Male counterparts. There has been many chastising cases that even to this day (40 years later) we still have to educate soldiers.

I think it is a bold move but one the army is not ready for yet. But if it happens I will support it as my oath and the American in me requires.

SPC(P) Micah Lavigne whether you realize it or not, transgender people HAVE been serving in the Army and other branches for much longer than either of us have been alive. Homosexuality and transgender are not a 20th or 21st century invention, we are just discussing them more now and not suppressing or condemning them automatically.

As for being from a small town, well Specialist, unless you know everyone in that town and what goes on behind closed doors, don't be so sure. There are still lots of closets with unopened doors and very many people who live in fear of their secrets getting out, especially in those small towns. Give it some serious thought, please.

Who says I haven't? Homosexuality has been around throughout recorded history yes. But its only now that the world is accepting it regardless of origins. However some things need time other things need less time to be integrated in the service. While I may not have as Much military experience as you, I will say I do spend alot of time thinking and One thing I know is regardless of my moral or personal beliefs on any topic As a Soldier I must remain unbiased. I personally think at this moment in time its a big leap from Homosexuality to transgendered service. I am not saying they do not have the right to enlist, I am saying that the Military should weigh in all aspects and not forget what is comprised of 60% of its military forces: Young fresh from high school faces that does the majority of the labor and some NCOs barely have 3-4 years of service. Junior enlisted at least love to trash talk and some NCOs have not fully accepted the Repeal of DADT. Im more worried for the transgendered Soldier than I am for the rest of the military. Once the Generation of the Military that accepts DADT Repeal are full in the ranks (Im talking about the Soldiers and Military Members that were barely Trainees reaching E-7) then Maybe We would have a more stable platform to give soldiers some support. Simply slapping a Reg up and say this is the Law obey it doesnt fix it. It took years to abolish slavery and more years to abolish racism. Womens rights were an uphill battle. And history repeats itself.

1LT John Kehoe. I did a web search . . . not one intersex / transgender candidate enlistee / officer is asking for any accommodation . . . other than to serve with honor and respect . . . just like everyone else. The discussion about special accommodations is only raised by non-intersex / non-transgender command / soldiers on behalf of those soldiers who have personal issues / concerns about a tiny miniscule number of openly intersex / transgenders in their midsts. I personally don't believe one intersex / transgender on rare occasion housed in a bay of fifty other troops is going to raise any practical concerns / difficulties. As you suggest . . . it is always best to just accept everyone who serves with goodwill. Warmest Regards, Sandy

Lt. Annala...i respectfully will "agree to disagree" with you on this matter, but i won't belabor the point! I noticed, in your profile, you did time in "the nam"...Welcome Home!! and Thank You for your service!! Dust Off & the "Meds" were some of the best people in the world!! Merry Christmas....

1LT John Kehoe. Welcome Home!!! We are so very lucky . . . so many of our young brothers didn't make it home . . . as intact as they were . . . or at all. Raise a glass to long lost brothers! Indeed, thank you for your service and memories that still haunt us. Warmest Regards, Sandy

I think the biggest change will need to be in the mindset of the troops. What we see here on RP is clearly a snapshot of the military mindset.

There are myriad folks who might be open to TG issues, but just don't know about them, or that they even exist. There are others, however, who refuse to even consider anything outside of what they see as normative, as 1LT Sandy Annala noted was the "white, straight, christian, cis-gendered man..."

As we have pointed out in other threads, gender identity AND gender orientation are spectra, not binary states.

Perhaps, if DOD comes to recognize that there are many loci on the spectra of identity and orientation, we might actually move to unified standards on things such as PT tests.

The one issue, for TG folks remains the status of their transition. Should DOD pay for a service member to transition, including the elective surgery costing as much as $30k or more? Then there are hormone replacement issues. This isn't as abnormal, as many folks in middle age use hormone supplements.

Maybe we'll see a day when our color is green, or blue or whatever, and that's the only demographic descriptor...