Posted on May 3, 2017
If the distance for the PT test run was 2.13 miles, am I still allowed to dispute it and request a retest?
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Posted 7 y ago
Responses: 239
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Ok let's say that .13 is not that much. Just do the math real quick .13 miles is a little over an eighth of a mile which is a little over 200 M if you're bitching because we should be off by 200 M on a PT test you're dead wrong the Army standard is 2 miles not to Miles and 1/8 knot to mile and a quarter it is 2 miles so yes you should dispute it and if your command is worth their weight in salt they will make sure that it gets checked and have you rerun it if you fail it the second time at 200m or at 2 miles that's on you but if you fail because they added 200 M to your PT test that's on them
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SGT Tim Paddleford
ok I was a cook and had to pass the test within 16 minutes for my age. I made it in 15.38 or somewhere around there. The longest part was when I walked the first mile. Everyone thought cooks were all fat boy lazy bitches so had to make a point that we were soldiers first, cooks second even if you were hungry or wanted a damn coffee. IMHO the soldier needs to re-evaluate himself to determine if this is what he wants. But yes the standards matter for all from private to the commanding generals.
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CPO (Join to see)
SGT Tim Paddleford - IMHO you opinion sucks and you are missing the larger issue in this leadership failure. This is not about the fitness level of a single PFC. The extended APFT course negatively impacts every Soldier that runs that extended course. The PFC re-evaluting what he wants will not address leadership's failure(s).
The command is screwing over everyone. Some are getting screwed more than others, but everyone is getting screwed. Even if they obtain a passing time on the extended 2.13 mile course, their promotion points are going to be lower because every step they have to take beyond 2 miles will increase their run time. The 20 year old male PT stud who would earn a 300 at 2 miles, gets stuck with a 288 APFT score at 2.13 miles. That is 12 promotion points the extended course robbed from the PT stud. Since many units present a COA (Cert of Achievement) to Soldiers who earn a 300 APFT score and a COA can be worth 5 promotion points, that's 17 promotion points the extended APFT course stole from the PT stud.
Anyone who would score less than a 74 on a 2 mile course will fail the 2.13 mile course. Soldiers that would score 74 on a 2 mile course only get a 60 on the 2.13 mile course. Compare the promotion points awarded to a 274 APFT score versus a 260 APFT score.
http://ec.militarytimes.com/static/pdfs/STEP_APFT_Table_SGT_SSG.pdf
That is 24 promotion points he earned but will not get. It's like giving every other Soldier with packets in front of the Jr Enlisted Promotion Board a Meritorious Service Medal (25 promotion points) because they only ran 2 miles when he had to run 2.13 miles.
The PFC improving his fitness level and running faster will still result in good Soldiers being passed over for promotion because of the promotion points lost due to improperly being required to run an extra 229 yards before the time stops at the end of their extended 2.13 mile run.
The command is screwing over everyone. Some are getting screwed more than others, but everyone is getting screwed. Even if they obtain a passing time on the extended 2.13 mile course, their promotion points are going to be lower because every step they have to take beyond 2 miles will increase their run time. The 20 year old male PT stud who would earn a 300 at 2 miles, gets stuck with a 288 APFT score at 2.13 miles. That is 12 promotion points the extended course robbed from the PT stud. Since many units present a COA (Cert of Achievement) to Soldiers who earn a 300 APFT score and a COA can be worth 5 promotion points, that's 17 promotion points the extended APFT course stole from the PT stud.
Anyone who would score less than a 74 on a 2 mile course will fail the 2.13 mile course. Soldiers that would score 74 on a 2 mile course only get a 60 on the 2.13 mile course. Compare the promotion points awarded to a 274 APFT score versus a 260 APFT score.
http://ec.militarytimes.com/static/pdfs/STEP_APFT_Table_SGT_SSG.pdf
That is 24 promotion points he earned but will not get. It's like giving every other Soldier with packets in front of the Jr Enlisted Promotion Board a Meritorious Service Medal (25 promotion points) because they only ran 2 miles when he had to run 2.13 miles.
The PFC improving his fitness level and running faster will still result in good Soldiers being passed over for promotion because of the promotion points lost due to improperly being required to run an extra 229 yards before the time stops at the end of their extended 2.13 mile run.
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Get a wheel and check it. There is a lot of information missing for me to give my exact thoughts , but if you failed and they are trying to do actions on you yes retest. Given how the Army holds PT tests in higher regards than job performance at the Junior levels in particular... yes retest. Any of us been around for a minute knows when it comes to who is going to the board the first thing is PT score. Once again without full details this is just my 2 cents.
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I saw a case at Fort Gordon where the 1/3 mile track start and stop point equalled a distance barely over two miles. A Soldier got a failed run thrown out and equally importantly got the start and finish points adjusted and properly marked. Pass fail and distance have to be as cut and clear as the regulations covering them.
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It may be a technical discrepancy. The test should be fair and honest for everyone. If you challenge it then you better be right or it will backfire.
The command expects the SM to preform to standards. The SM should have the right to expect command to be fair about those expectations.
The command expects the SM to preform to standards. The SM should have the right to expect command to be fair about those expectations.
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SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
I guess their time would be pretty good then, if it isn't then they are not up to the expected standard. I doubt many would complain about that.
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The standard is 2 miles period if you failed because of that extra distance you better pass the retest and make sure it’s measured with a walking wheel
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So, probably going to catch hell for this, but yes. If you can prove that the test was farther than regulation prescribes than it is not a valid test. Just as if the parameters for either of the other events is not met they are also reason for the test to be thrown out. Now, trying to do so is another story. Just because you are authorized to challenge the tests validity and the chain should respect the fact that you are right does not mean that they will. This is probably one of those situations where you have to wonder to yourself if the juice is really worth the squeeze bud. I would say that you should just wait the prescribes amount of time and retake the test and pass, but make sure that prior to the test starting that there is proof of the distance of the run event.
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If I was you, I'd start with your First line Supervisor - NCO. Bring the facts, suggest facts get checked with the Training NCO. Have your proof in hand and tell how you measured.
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PFC (Join to see)
SSG (Join to see) Almost all of them are like that yes, and the ones who aren't are only the rank of SGT so the SSG and SFC who are in charge pretty much do not care about what they have to say or care very little.
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SGM Mikel Dawson
PFC (Join to see) - If your CoC is like this, then maybe you need to file an official complaint (IG). After saying that: the last APFT I took I was 47yrs old, I could do the run in under 16 minutes. If you failed by that much, then you need to get your ass in gear. That said, I know your Training section needs to have on record the last time the course was checked.
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SFC (Join to see)
It seems to me they almost wanted u to fail. I experienced this once as a grader. While grading push-ups of a soldier that was in fact being looked at as unfit for service by the command team. He went up and down at least 60 times of those 46 counted, the commander was not happy that he passed and said I was a bad grader, I just told him I hold all to the same standard, and I didn't see him giving the grader of his LTs a hard time or looking over their shoulder. Integrity is what matters, if u feel cheated the least they can do is retest u, it's not rocket science to put together.
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So a Cold War story. I was stationed in Heidelberg, Germany on the USAEUR staff. We were technically assigned to the HQ and Service Company, but we had little to do with with the organization - tested, trained, and everything else was done with the USAEUR staff, except the PT test (okay so it shows how old I am). As you would expect the company cadre had a strong dislike for us desk jockeys expected us to blow off the PT test and particularly the run. What they didn't realize was that the staff pukes were required to run at least 5 miles every day which is what you get when you have SOF officers in-charge. So PT test day, got to the run, the course was laid out around a set of barracks which blocked the staff view of us for much of the course. So before the run, five of us lit up cigarettes (none of us smoked) and stood around waiting for the start, getting a lot of grief. We started running at a jog with cigarettes dangling from our mouths, got around the building, pulled the smokes out, and ran like hell, came around the buildings back in view, slowed down, started smoking again, a jogged past the monitors. Did this six more times and we finished the run in under 11 minutes. When we last saw them, they were still arguing with the guy with the stopwatch Accusing him of screwing up. Never did the PT test with the HQ company again.
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