In the middle of heated debate, where do you stop and think that this is where you should probably draw the line (suicide vs. depression)?

SSG Jessica Bautista, "Where, in the middle of heated debate, do you stop and think that this is where you should probably draw the line?"

I stop when it becomes personal.

Admitting you have a problem and that you have drug or alcohol issues is the first step to getting a grip and staying alive. Consuming alcohol, pain killers and taking anti-depressants like my sister is not a good mix to help you get over your mental problems.

Honestly, I lost my sister to Suicide on the 4th of July, 2015. She was 49. She had over 3 decades of feeling bad for being down and out for having an abortion (A civilian having post traumatic stress) in her teens and later she had a tumor and she had a hyserectomy. She blew her chance to have kids. She could not bear children which made her feel guilty.She had 8 little dogs to compensate.

She went through 3 marriages. She left the first one because he worked hard and did not go party like she did for over a decade, She left her second partying and driniking buddy husband for a death row inmate who she knew in High School though he was on death row and She was a death row groupie that would go see him and felt a bond for someone who would never get out of San Quentin except in a coffin!

Some of you may recognize my sister's suicde posting from earlier here on RP but I did not get into many details like today. I wanted to put some context so others here can understand and see if my premis of drugs abuse and alcohol is a real issue that many do not discuss possibly because they like to drink and don't see how it can affect them.

My sister always had a drinking problem had an explosive personality. She met her 2nd husband like her 3rd at a bar. This leads me to discuss that drugs, painkillers and alcohol are factors that many here don't see as a common denominator. She was a functioning alcholic. She had high school, some college completed and she adept to leave a job by telling an employer to F off and find another one through a temp agency in no time at all.

My sister's 3rd husband and her were both drunks and they were abusive. She hung herself the day after she was served with a divorce. She and I were estranged so we did not talk but she hung herself after her estranged 3rd husband had left to a 4th of July party she was not invited to since she, in the past, did not get along with her sister-in-law

My sister was seen by one of my cousins a few months before she killed herself and he said she was a mess but my sister excommunited me when she was challenged by me for elder abuse by having my mom add her to my mother's account. My mother was suffering early dementia and she did not remember taking her to the bank to add her. She stole a couple of thousand and when I confronted her about it she e-mailed me telling me to never talk to her again. She always bragged to family that she was at this or that bar and grill and she even posted that she was into AA and that beer was not addicting like wine or whisky which showed how out of touch she was.

http://obits.ocregister.com/obituaries/orangecounty/obituary.aspx?n=rose-loretta-conway&pid=175315548

By the way, my wife is a Canadian Native Indian. She is Cree and we both live in the City of Edmonton, Aberta, Canada.

Her family and her Indian Reserve/Reservation have a severe pandemic of unemployment (80%) drug abuse, suicide, gang shootings and crime and alcohol issues on her reserve that has resulted in many suicides and drug/alcohol related on the reserve that emulate the broken homes of inner city poverty and single mom's with a dad missing from the home but getting others pregnant in and around the same reserve and they are druggies or drunks themselves.

Fetal alcohol syndrome is common and those kids are not as smart as Forest Gump and getting high, getting pregnant or getting others pregnant too. This lost Generation on the Indian Reserve is in the news often but what is not said is WHITE people are just as easily in the same drug/alcohol hook but its not really discussed except at AA meetings and now I am talking about it here since substance abuse is not disucssed enough. My sister is one person who died but my Wife has at least 5 cousins dead by suicide due to a breakup and what helped them cope was drugs/alcohol to do the deed. My Wife's oldest sister tried to OD on pills over her druggie BF. My wife would walk in the cemetery on her Indian Reseve and she would say this person died by house fire, died by car accident with drunk driver, hit by drunk driver, died mysteriously, drive-by shooting, found dead from O.D., died by not getting medical attention of a pre-existing problem. The culture of neglect, drugs, alchohol, unemployment and crime which I feel can affect servicemembers too here.

I know here we are talking about the 25 or so vets who kill themselves monthly but I am just thinking that sobriety is the key to admitting you are addicted and seeking help.

Call Army One Source for help or advice 24/7. They do have funding for 24/7
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Col (Join to see) Col (Join to see) COL Mikel J. Burroughs LTC John Shaw LTC Stephen F. CPT Pedro Meza
SSG James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4" SSG Trust Palmer SSG Warren Swan SSG Jessica Bautista SSG Derrick L. Lewis MBA, C-HRM SGT Gregory Lawritson SFC George Smith SFC Mark Merino SFC William Farrell MSG Chris Allen SrA Christopher Wright TSgt Melissa Post

I suffer from depression and just recently wanted to end it. In fact it was December 23, 2016. Some things had happened and I found myself in my room crying thinking of the 9mm in my chest of drawers calling my name. What saved me was my son calling me on the phone telling me he was on his way over. It was not the first time I have had these thoughts and I know it won't be the last time either.

With that being said, I cannot take depression as a lighthearted subject. Yes, I am in therapy and yes I am taking medicine. Is it enough, most likely not. A lot of times when a people gets to the point when suicide is their only option left, it's because they feel trapped and there is no other way out for themselves.

It takes a warrior to fight the battles inside themselves and stay alive, but it also takes a warrior to end their demons that are fighting within themselves too.

Never ever take depression for granted, if you feel if someone is reaching out, don't be afraid to ask how they are doing. You never know, you starting the conversation with them just might save their life.

I worked a suicide hotline after losing a close friend... can i play?

First, a suicidal person may not be outwardly depressed... my friend, for instance. Just graduated college, just moved into a new apartment, just got a new boyfriend, just got a new job... all this in the course of a few (2-3) weeks. One day after work she went home, cleaned the house, lay down in the bathtub and killed herself with a shotgun. We figured she did it in the tub so there wouldn't be a mess... we, her friends, felt guilty. What did we miss? Why didn't we see it? How could we help?

Reality, shit happens. There is a significant percentage of suicides that occur in people who have the world by the tail... shit happens...

Next?

With 20-22 vets committing suicide per day, this is a serious issue. As I grow older, I've come to realize that many of our brothers and sisters are frankly tired of trying to make their lives relevant in today's PC world, and end their struggle. Too many honorable vets are on the streets, homeless and hungry, with little succor afforded them. To those I say, I will help. I help through my localVFW and American Legion. I help by pushing vets issues with my representatives at the local, State and Federal levels. I help through comments on social media. And yes, I donate money. Since the day Of my commissioning, and entering active service, I've striven to do two things: Support and defend the Constitution, and take care of the soldiers under me so they may actively prosecute their assigned missions. I see no reason to ever stop.

Indeed I've gotten personal a few times with folks who also get personal- usually the line had been crossed way before that. Typically I stop when I come to the realization that no matter how hard I try, the dog just won't let go of the frisbee.

This is my thoughts. Most people, me included, don't even know they are "depressed". It's a medical diagnosis that requires treatment. But like the alcoholic, they usually need to be told they are depressed and although life's events may bombard them with stress, they don't recognize what is happening. Asking for help is a weakness, no matter which side of that line you may be. You may lose hope, and it is a recovery process. To reboot the normal flow of serotonin and neurotransmitters, to have to help yourself. Not through self-medication, but talk, exercise, diet and recognizing that you are a grumpy old man or bitchy young woman cause life isn't going the way you expected. It can get worse into a spiral that needs the people around you, to see you need human contact. Someone that cares. The highest rates of suicide are the middle age white Protestant males. The hardest thing is to know when you just need to ask someone if they are okay. I am a beast and thank you for your elegant question. What exactly are you asking?

First thing you as the leader must do is a check up from the neck up. If you are in a bad way and don't seek help yourself, your failing the Creed, and the troops under you. Stop with the HOOAH HOOAH bullshit. If your Soldiers see you getting help, by default, they know there is someone there who does feel the same as they do, and maybe they'll have enough trust to come to you and confide what their feeling. One particular sore spot with me are units sending troops to inpatient or mando outpatient care. Once that step is taken to get help, damn the CQ, Duty Driver, and bitch boy details. His/Her new MOS is Healing40P, and making their way back from the brink. I've also seen units take troops out of treatment just to fill a shift or take them out completely stating they're mission critical. I was mando outpatient and actually saw this happen to a Soldier who had some serous issues that needed to be worked on. She never came back, but she's doing good now. No unit is THAT mission critical where you should pull a troop out of rehab to get back to work over a Dr's medical assessment. So when I read about some of the initiatives the Army is doing to combat suicide, I think of the folks I was with in therapy, the crying, the arguing, fighting, and sheer amounts of anger everyone had, but was never resolved. But who the hell am I? SMA in his efforts to raise morale, made another PT uniform, you got the black socks, AND the ability to roll sleeves. Fucking Yay. In the time it took to do that, how many have taken their lives? We can't save everyone, but at least give them the tools and no fuck fuck games while they use those tools; we might save one more. "Know yourself and seek self improvement" is one of the leadership principles. I reckon some units never got the memo.

when it becomes more then a debate and becomes a way of putting down and belittling someone. When it is not longer about the actual thing you are debating and about the attacking the person.As to suicide a person who commits suicide does not really want to die. They just want the pain to stop. The not feeling good enough , guilty , shame and think other would be better off with out them. I am talking about people with the depression or other mental health illness that rob you of everything good in life. As female veteran with 26 year in law enforcement , 4 patrol 22 dispatch I felt that I had to be tougher then men. I never wanted that "just a emotional female" label. Another thing is I did not feel I had earned having PTSD. I never served overseas. I still do not feel that comfortable saying I am veteran since I was never active duty. I had 20 year in national guard

You talk about suicide and depression. I openly admit to abusing drugs and alcohol from while in the Army (1968) until I had finally had enough. Like they say, I was tired of being sick and tired. LIttle did I know the answer was a matter of going to AA and NA, going to 2 or 3 meeting everyday, get a sponsor, read The Big Book, do the steps to the best of my ability. I did all and continued to do all that.....For a period of time in mid 1990 I had an itch I just couldn't scratch. I was at a total loss as to why....I talk about my feelings, met a VN vet in AA who had group meetings at his home, and on and on and on. Depression, I did not have any idea what depression was or that I was clinically depressed. My addiction turn from drugs and alcohol to sex and food. (Only I did not see the addiction.) My life was still spinning out of control. I owned my own business which I ended up losing. Then in the year 2000 or so I made a pretty drastic suicide attempt and nearly succeeded except God wasn't ready for me yet and told me go back and try something different. I have many Vietnam Vets in my life and each and every one of them told me go to the VA. Finally, I put a call into mental health and they agreed to see that same afternoon. I spoke with a psychiatrist for for a couple hours. At the end of our meeting the Doc diagnosed my as being severely depressed, suffering from 100% service connected PTSD and just was a good thing I did not push my luck any further as it may have been too late. The true reason I did not follow through with suicide are several, the most important be that if I were to die at my own hand I would not get to heaven. By the way, I was still praying to Jesus on a regular basis, going to church, meeting with men from church, you name it. My new VA Doc wanted to commit me to the MH ward right there on the spot. I fought him on that and did not check in. He did give me a handful of drugs, got me to several meetings at the hospital and the VA Center. Slowly I started coming around but by that time it was too late to salvage much in terms of material assets. My home was gone, my business was gone, my wife was almost gone, I still played with suicide idealization and fantixation, I seem to be fixated on the idea because of all the damage I blamed on myself. Things have changed considerably over the past 15 or so years but I must remain diligent to protect myself. Depression is sneaky shit, I can never see it coming. I have a large collection of fire arms and I have never once fantasized about using a firearm My fantasy has always revolved around making it appear to be an accident. Believe me I have several ideas. My wife is nearly invalid and I can't do that to her, she has supported my all my life and she deserves more than having me abandon her this late in life. We are both nearly 70. We are on a very small fixed VA and SS income that gives up for and not much. Our home is falling apart around us, appliance are breaking down and we have no cash to do anything about any it. We cannot get credit, thanks to my stupidity.
This is a very long ass answer to a very short question. I hope this gets some attention to encourage my brothers and sisters, don't give up - try something - anything, until you find something that works. I apologize for the length of this message.