Posted on Oct 8, 2016
In the middle of heated debate, where do you stop and think that this is where you should probably draw the line (suicide vs. depression)?
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Admittedly, I do have a little fun poking at controversy, but now I have access to a whole bunch of fearless and outspoken Vets and servicemembers. Cool beans.
I have been creeping around these threads, and I notice two very broad reaction to feelings in general: the haves and the have-nots. Specifically, the haves generally care about social issues and care about people as a whole, while the have-nots generally care more about personal freedoms, other groups be damned. Of course, there are also those who have a leg on each side of the line.
I think we all agree that suicide is a sad thing, and no one should have to feel as if that is their last resort (correct me if I'm wrong). Depression may be a gray area for some (not to be confused with sadness. We're talking long-term, uncontrollable depression), and we can dismiss someone's constant complaining as just being "a whiney liberal" or a "selfish *sshole" when in fact, they are in pain.
So I ask you, the honest people of RP, at which point do you stop to wonder if a person is okay? Where, in the middle of heated debate, do you stop and think that this is where you should probably draw the line? Is there even a line you don't cross? Or do you fight against your brother or sister until they fold, regardless of consequences?
For the sake of this thread, I only have one rule: I'd like knee-jerk reactions. Don't pause to research, don't phone a friend, don't poll the audience. Since it's not related to politics, we don't need to talk about candidates. If you're still reading this, you're a beast and deserve cookies.
I have been creeping around these threads, and I notice two very broad reaction to feelings in general: the haves and the have-nots. Specifically, the haves generally care about social issues and care about people as a whole, while the have-nots generally care more about personal freedoms, other groups be damned. Of course, there are also those who have a leg on each side of the line.
I think we all agree that suicide is a sad thing, and no one should have to feel as if that is their last resort (correct me if I'm wrong). Depression may be a gray area for some (not to be confused with sadness. We're talking long-term, uncontrollable depression), and we can dismiss someone's constant complaining as just being "a whiney liberal" or a "selfish *sshole" when in fact, they are in pain.
So I ask you, the honest people of RP, at which point do you stop to wonder if a person is okay? Where, in the middle of heated debate, do you stop and think that this is where you should probably draw the line? Is there even a line you don't cross? Or do you fight against your brother or sister until they fold, regardless of consequences?
For the sake of this thread, I only have one rule: I'd like knee-jerk reactions. Don't pause to research, don't phone a friend, don't poll the audience. Since it's not related to politics, we don't need to talk about candidates. If you're still reading this, you're a beast and deserve cookies.
Suicide
Depression
Mental Health
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 31
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I would like for you to explain your motivations here and the end-game. As a sufferer of depression and suicidual ideation, really feel offended. And making it about the haves and have nots is also not acceptable., here we have dichotomy. Here we all claim to be the same. A sociological experiment game is not appropriate in the least. SSG Jessica Bautista PO2 Ed C.
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SSG Jessica Bautista
We all are the same. You are not the only one who has diagnosed depression and suicidal ideations. This is not a game, and I honestly do not know where you got that impression. I am asking everyone to be a little self-reflective and realize that we don't know what personal battle others are fighting and that their words have impact. Full stop.
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Sgt Wayne Wood
Read the other posts here Larry... we all have skin in the "game" and if all you see is a haves vs have-nots discussion then you really aren't paying attention. I have clinical depression, take meds for it. i have PTSD, take meds so i can sleep at night and meds so i don't have nightmares (been reliably informed i still have them, just don't remember them). been in counseling off and on since 1974. self-medicated for a while. drank for a while (sober since Oct 1985). join in the discussion, but don't throw hooks, we ain't biting.
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SSgt (Join to see)
Sgt Wayne Wood Dude, re-read what I said. When I was homeless, I remember thinking it would be better, if I had hit a bridge aubuttment. The only thing stopping me was the cat in my car. I dreamed a lot about drowning, the same dream, again and again. I went to the VA emergency room, one Dr told me to come to the ER whenever I needed. One robot-cop decided that I should not being in there.
The misasma continue right now, The Epilepsy and the meds, Lamotrigine only adds to it and makes it hard to comprehend what is being said. I still cannot figure out the original question. If I do not get it, then excuse me, but it is what it is. So, sue me, even.
The misasma continue right now, The Epilepsy and the meds, Lamotrigine only adds to it and makes it hard to comprehend what is being said. I still cannot figure out the original question. If I do not get it, then excuse me, but it is what it is. So, sue me, even.
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Sgt Wayne Wood
SSgt (Join to see) - We can take this to messaging if you wish... little more private
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Thank you for sharing. I am the Suicide Prevention Program Manager for SCARNG.
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SSG Jessica Bautista
Wow! Not many can carry the weight of that job. Kudos to you for carrying it for the rest of us, sir
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Sgt Wayne Wood
Kudos indeed. I have a problem... i just can't get my head around suicide... as Jes alluded to earlier, i've done some weird shit like the suicide line & hospice work... people who killed themselves & people clinging to life... i just don't understand suicide...
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I can say that a person considering suicide may not show signs that he/she is.
What drives a person to do so? Only that person knows and the issue may be real or imagined. The result is that death becomes the only escape in their mind.
What drives a person to do so? Only that person knows and the issue may be real or imagined. The result is that death becomes the only escape in their mind.
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Capt Tom Brown
I have read or heard more than once that once a person makes the decision to kill them self that a tremendous weight of all their troubles and issues is lifted off their shoulders and they become as free and easy and free spirited and happy as a lark. People remark at the dramatic change in the person for the 'better' then a few days later the person kills them self.
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Good post!
I've asked a similar question before. There's a lot of depressed and angry people on here. You can tell by their temperament and how the engage on most post. Most times if this is the case, I exit the conversation. I've inboxed a few just to see if they were okay.
A lot of times, people like to troll. That's when I stop and ask myself... am I really that bored to go back and forth with this person? I try not to go back and forth with them. I speak my piece and drop the mic.
I've asked a similar question before. There's a lot of depressed and angry people on here. You can tell by their temperament and how the engage on most post. Most times if this is the case, I exit the conversation. I've inboxed a few just to see if they were okay.
A lot of times, people like to troll. That's when I stop and ask myself... am I really that bored to go back and forth with this person? I try not to go back and forth with them. I speak my piece and drop the mic.
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There is an old saw - you can say anything you want as long as you say it with love in your heart and a smile on your face.
I think there is an art to internet "debate" and disagreement.
With person "A" respectful disagreement may be just what they need. Nothing is quite as insulting as pity or patronizing agreement.
With person "B" it may be best to walk away.
With person "C" they may need you to stop arguing the point and to starting caring about "C".
Unfortunately we are 5 sense animals conducting conversation through the "keyhole" of typed words. I can't tell if the other person smiling, baring their teeth, or crying. I can't tell if their "voice' is tight or relaxed. etc. etc.
So... are you OK? By the way I like chocolate chip cookies with too many walnuts, thin and crisp around the edges, coffee for dipping, not milk.
I think there is an art to internet "debate" and disagreement.
With person "A" respectful disagreement may be just what they need. Nothing is quite as insulting as pity or patronizing agreement.
With person "B" it may be best to walk away.
With person "C" they may need you to stop arguing the point and to starting caring about "C".
Unfortunately we are 5 sense animals conducting conversation through the "keyhole" of typed words. I can't tell if the other person smiling, baring their teeth, or crying. I can't tell if their "voice' is tight or relaxed. etc. etc.
So... are you OK? By the way I like chocolate chip cookies with too many walnuts, thin and crisp around the edges, coffee for dipping, not milk.
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SSG Jessica Bautista
Only if the walnuts are minced, sir. Texture is very important in cookies.
I'm okay, sir. Sometimes I see people who go straight for the jugular, and I wonder what kind of wounds are they hiding that would make them react with that kind of passion. I think about human nature and how people can influence each other with no active effort. Knee-jerk reactions are very telling.
These are just things I think about when I don't feel like arguing anymore, sir.
I'm okay, sir. Sometimes I see people who go straight for the jugular, and I wonder what kind of wounds are they hiding that would make them react with that kind of passion. I think about human nature and how people can influence each other with no active effort. Knee-jerk reactions are very telling.
These are just things I think about when I don't feel like arguing anymore, sir.
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Maj John Bell
SSG Jessica Bautista - What I am about to say is not very enlightened, but indulge me. There are differences between men and women that I think are inherent. My grandaughter when she plays, pretends to a higher level of thinking and skill. She aspires to something more nurturing. My grandsons aspire to be Neanderthals and there is no higher humor than to make one of their brothers say ow! Some of us boys never outgrow that. It had its place when we were hunter gatherers. Now, not so much.
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SSG Jessica Bautista
Maj John Bell - ah, nature vs. nurture. I won't dismiss your experiences because you acknowledge that it is not a universal truth. Myself, I have been fortunate to have been a child of divorced parents, and so I was exposed to two completely opposite parenting styles. My mother was old-fashioned Asian, and grandma lived with us, so "Ugh" is all I'll say about that. Dad is now a LTC (E-1 to E-9, then commissioned as a 2LT), and he's an engineer, logical to a fault. Not sure what parts of me were inherent, but I find that I am well-rounded enough.
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I was depressed for over 30 years... I am glad I didn't do the most selfish thing any human being can do.
( admission ......I tried. I tried hard..I had a liberal media studies roommate in college...he let me lay there for three days before he thought he might mention it to anyone.. the bedsores took 20 years to heal...yes I left a note..... it wasn't his decision to make either ... however, I wonder what he will need to answer for when his time comes..I don't care..but it interests me what kind of a karmic shithole he excavated for himself ...with extreme prejudice?)
When I finally came out of it I recalled a line from the Sixth sense when Ben Frieken shoots Bruce Willis.
"I was afraid!"
I'm not scared anymore.......PTSD does kill and the collateral damage is enormous.
I had little or no hope on and off......forever.. so it seemed.
As much as one might think they would mourn all the lost time...the joy of being OK and in the moment and feeling the joy of being alive and knowing you are a part of the world is so wonderful that the only time I spend on that time is attempting to bring a lift and light in the lives of others... They always say it's never too late to start......THEY are right!
( admission ......I tried. I tried hard..I had a liberal media studies roommate in college...he let me lay there for three days before he thought he might mention it to anyone.. the bedsores took 20 years to heal...yes I left a note..... it wasn't his decision to make either ... however, I wonder what he will need to answer for when his time comes..I don't care..but it interests me what kind of a karmic shithole he excavated for himself ...with extreme prejudice?)
When I finally came out of it I recalled a line from the Sixth sense when Ben Frieken shoots Bruce Willis.
"I was afraid!"
I'm not scared anymore.......PTSD does kill and the collateral damage is enormous.
I had little or no hope on and off......forever.. so it seemed.
As much as one might think they would mourn all the lost time...the joy of being OK and in the moment and feeling the joy of being alive and knowing you are a part of the world is so wonderful that the only time I spend on that time is attempting to bring a lift and light in the lives of others... They always say it's never too late to start......THEY are right!
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Sp4 Byron Skinner. I'm not sure suicide is a debate. I have known guys who took that fatal option and each case was for a different reason. Among reasons I guess you would have to say a domestic relationship that went sour and ended, pain that can't be reasonability controlled, a soldier who comes home with a catastrophic wound and his family takes one look at him/her and says don't come home, untreated or mis treated depression, just losing the will to live. Yes I do believe and I'm sure seen a case of a soldiers who duct couldn't see an future that he would find acceptable, goes to sleep and never wakes. The soldier in particular I have in mind was a Medic with the 4ID in Nam spinal injury, lost leg, an arm no longer function and blind in one eye. He was in the bed next to me on "K" Ward. He just went to bed one night and about 0230 I heard the curtain pull around, a Doctor came on the ward, they brought the cart, I heard the zipper on the bag and the cart left. Later that morning when I got up, his bed was made, his stuff gone and his area looked like nobody had been their. The conclusion I came to 50 years ago is that suicide is an option and the only one you have control over.
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SSG Jessica Bautista you asked for a knee-jerk reaction, and mine is that I think there is something seriously wrong with someone who starts or encourages a fight between two different factions/people so they can be entertained. (i.e. "I do have a little fun poking at controversy") It's one thing to pick a fight because you like to fight, and quite another to get two people to fight so you can sit back, eat popcorn, and be entertained.
Haves and Have-nots? Yesterday Thomas Sowell published notice that he is retiring. (He's a writer and commentator, and if you don't know of him, your education is sorely lacking.) A black man born in 1930, he grew up in Harlem, and lived in homes without electricity or running hot water. That's a Have-Not. Today's have-nots have color TVs, cell phones, cars, food stamps, welfare checks, subsidized everything. We need a better description, perhaps "The Jones'" and "Those wanting to keep up with the Jones'."
I prefer not to get personal, but brother in arms or not, if you get personal with me, I'll fight back. Maybe you'll know better than to get personal next time.
And your final topic was depression and suicide. Mental health has been ignored by most people and nearly all politicians. One group thinks everyone ought to pull up their Big Girl Panties, and the other thinks that firearms cause mental illness, and they aren't going to do anything about it until they get the guns first.
Having given my knee-jerk reaction, the solution to two of these problems is NOT government. You can spend as much money as you want, but you can't buy caring. And caring is probably the answer to the other two as well. Maybe everyone needs to spend a little more time caring about someone else, and a little less time looking for their next entertainment fix.
Haves and Have-nots? Yesterday Thomas Sowell published notice that he is retiring. (He's a writer and commentator, and if you don't know of him, your education is sorely lacking.) A black man born in 1930, he grew up in Harlem, and lived in homes without electricity or running hot water. That's a Have-Not. Today's have-nots have color TVs, cell phones, cars, food stamps, welfare checks, subsidized everything. We need a better description, perhaps "The Jones'" and "Those wanting to keep up with the Jones'."
I prefer not to get personal, but brother in arms or not, if you get personal with me, I'll fight back. Maybe you'll know better than to get personal next time.
And your final topic was depression and suicide. Mental health has been ignored by most people and nearly all politicians. One group thinks everyone ought to pull up their Big Girl Panties, and the other thinks that firearms cause mental illness, and they aren't going to do anything about it until they get the guns first.
Having given my knee-jerk reaction, the solution to two of these problems is NOT government. You can spend as much money as you want, but you can't buy caring. And caring is probably the answer to the other two as well. Maybe everyone needs to spend a little more time caring about someone else, and a little less time looking for their next entertainment fix.
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There is no line when you are saving a life.
Get the person to talk to us. We are in 12 countries and speak 7 languages.
http://evolutionaryhealer.com/the-cr-process/
Send them to me first here on RP or my Facebook page to PM me 24/7.
https://www.facebook.com/earthwindhealer
Get the person to talk to us. We are in 12 countries and speak 7 languages.
http://evolutionaryhealer.com/the-cr-process/
Send them to me first here on RP or my Facebook page to PM me 24/7.
https://www.facebook.com/earthwindhealer
The CR Process | Evolutionary Healer
“We are born with an already established personality. As we age, we become witness to various stimuli that changes the way we look at the world and how we will act and react in it.”
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I cannot set a finger directly on that line. For me I can see a shift in the conversation that tells me things have gone too far. This does not mean I end the conversation or walk away. It simply means I know I have to change gears. Normally, it means I will ask a question in an attempt to get a feel for where things went wrong.
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