Posted on Jan 1, 2015
Inclusion in the military. You're special, just like everyone else.
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the real military
I can't help but to feel that we tend to over compensate in some areas. Inclustion in the military is one of them that I feel that we overreach. Everyone should feel like a member of the team and should feel that they are valuable. But there is a point where you try to make everyone feel special. If everyone is special then we are all the same and you redefined what really is special. Changing norms will not have the desired effect you may intend in the long run.
First, it was the black beret. I understand that others wore it before the Rangers did. But the only ones who were wearing it was the Rangers at the time. Below is an official statement.
"In the United States Army, the beret has become a symbol of excellence of our specialty units. Soldiers of the Special Forces, our airborne units, and the Ranger Regiment have long demonstrated such excellence through their legendary accomplishments and unmatched capabilities. Their deployability, versatility, and agility are due, in part, to their organizational structure and equipment."
They got it right that they beret was a symbol of excellence. But if everyone in the Army is excellent wouldn't that just be average. Excellence reserved for those that strive beyond that that is average. But everyone got it and were so proud of it all.
Next came the awards. Now we have awards such as the Combat Action Badge, Sapper Tab, Jungle Expert Tab, and the Army Instructor Badge. I understand the intent behind them. But I can't recall a time when so many new badges came out in one shot. At first Special Forces didn't even have a tab and the President himself was the one that authorized the wear of the Green Beret.
In addition we have more patches that came out. We now have the "MP" and "CBRN" patch. I thought you were to only wear them when on duty that is not the case now. I am sure there are some more.
Are we developing a culture where we award you for doing your job? Should you get an award for what is expected of you? Do you deserve a special uniform accessory for just being in the Army and if so is it special anymore if everyone has it?
It always reminds me of this movie. It is a comedy. This clips explains it pretty well.
First, it was the black beret. I understand that others wore it before the Rangers did. But the only ones who were wearing it was the Rangers at the time. Below is an official statement.
"In the United States Army, the beret has become a symbol of excellence of our specialty units. Soldiers of the Special Forces, our airborne units, and the Ranger Regiment have long demonstrated such excellence through their legendary accomplishments and unmatched capabilities. Their deployability, versatility, and agility are due, in part, to their organizational structure and equipment."
They got it right that they beret was a symbol of excellence. But if everyone in the Army is excellent wouldn't that just be average. Excellence reserved for those that strive beyond that that is average. But everyone got it and were so proud of it all.
Next came the awards. Now we have awards such as the Combat Action Badge, Sapper Tab, Jungle Expert Tab, and the Army Instructor Badge. I understand the intent behind them. But I can't recall a time when so many new badges came out in one shot. At first Special Forces didn't even have a tab and the President himself was the one that authorized the wear of the Green Beret.
In addition we have more patches that came out. We now have the "MP" and "CBRN" patch. I thought you were to only wear them when on duty that is not the case now. I am sure there are some more.
Are we developing a culture where we award you for doing your job? Should you get an award for what is expected of you? Do you deserve a special uniform accessory for just being in the Army and if so is it special anymore if everyone has it?
It always reminds me of this movie. It is a comedy. This clips explains it pretty well.
Awards
Badges
Beret
Edited 11 y ago
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 47
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I agree in principle with most of these points. As the S1, I recently had to review an award submitted by a SRNCO for his Soldier that passed a record APFT....barely passed. And this is after failing 3 previous APFTs over 9 months (1 record and 2 diagnostics). Why is he trying to recognize a Soldier for doing what is REQUIRED of them?! He said it was because the Soldier improved the score by over 40 points, well that's easy to do when you have a failing score of 152!! And let's be honest, is a 192 something to be really proud of?
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MSG Mark Stinson
To stay on an ODA you must pass the APFT with 90+ on each event, graded on the 17yo column regardless of your age. But also the 12 hour day/night land nav, 32K ruck (65+ lbs) in 18 hours and gates; every year. It was easy at first but when I was 42 yo as the 18Z (Team Sergeant) of an ODA it hurt.
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1SG (Join to see)
MSG Mark Stinson thanks for sharing this example that supports my reply to another NCO. Some units have higher standards due to their unique missions.
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Beret? I think that was stupid. I agree that giving recognition and awards away makes them valueless. And giving the beret to the entire Army made the beret meaningless. The Army is way to big and diverse to have a strong esprit de corps like the Marine Corps does. Having pride in your Branch, MOS, battalion, company, or what have you is very important to uphold Army standards as well as morale. So if the thing is given to everyone it's meaningless. But if it's given to those who earn it, it means something. The MP patch is new, but they used to be allowed MP armbands back in the day, so I don't see that as being new. And it denotes MPs as NOT anybody else. As for the Sapper tab, if infantry can have the Ranger Tab, why can't we have a Sapper Tab? It represents being the best of the best as a combat engineer. I don't see how a combat engineer wearing a Sapper Tab dilutes the value of a Ranger Tab. If the Engineer Corps gave Ranger Tabs when you graduated Sapper Leader Course, I can see Infantry and Rangers being pissed.
As for the Combat Action Badge, that's just the Army recognizing what Combat Engineers have know for a long time, "Infantry may be Queen of the Battle, but it combat engineers who make sure she don't get raped." That was a deliberate poke in the eye, and an attempt at humor. Hope nobody takes it too seriously.
As for the Combat Action Badge, that's just the Army recognizing what Combat Engineers have know for a long time, "Infantry may be Queen of the Battle, but it combat engineers who make sure she don't get raped." That was a deliberate poke in the eye, and an attempt at humor. Hope nobody takes it too seriously.
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SGT Scott Henderson
I think the point isn't will one award cheapen another. The point is that there were only a few units that had distinctive uniform items (SF, Ranger, Airborne). Now everyone wants to feel special do they've created the Sapper Tab, gave everyone the black beret, and created badges like the CAB. Personally i never gave a shit about it until i became a Cav Scout. I never wore a Stetson or spurs for the exact reasons others have stated. It's hard to take pride in your achievements when your (supposedly) unique traditions are handed out like fucking Halloween candy.
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MAJ Haris Balcinovic
SSG (Join to see) you did read his last sentence where he said that was a deliberate poke in the eye and an attempt at humor?
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SGT Thomas Mitchell
Berets for everyone? They don't have a lot of utility. Now the booney hat has some utility
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Well, CPT (Join to see), I wrote a longer response to this thread, but it disappeared when I clicked Respond.
Bottom line is that I agree with you: If everybody's special, then nobody's special.
That said, WE'RE ALL WINNERS!!!
PS: Great photo and excellent movie clip! Thanks for sharing both.
Bottom line is that I agree with you: If everybody's special, then nobody's special.
That said, WE'RE ALL WINNERS!!!
PS: Great photo and excellent movie clip! Thanks for sharing both.
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CPT (Join to see)
I love that movie. It is one of the best examples of it. I wish we would reserve the beret for the elites like we did in the past. Average is not something you should strive for. It is expected.
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I think that there are some good things going on with helping everyone express the uniqueness of their units. As an artillery officer in a cab regiment, I wear cross sabers, Spurs, and a Stetson with my red socks and tie. I think it is important for some elements to be able to express themselves as different. The black beret was/is a silly choice. But allowing different branches to have their expressions does not detract from the infantry combat badge or the ranger tab.
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A few thoughts:
- Pay, Awards, Promotions. We are paid to do our job, we receive awards for going above and beyond in the performance of our job, we are promoted based upon our potential to serve at a higher pay grade. Three different criteria for three different purposes that unfortunately people get confused on. Awards should not be given for merely doing one's job and promotions should not be based merely upon performance.
- Awards. There is a limited number of awards for which a commander has wide discretion on giving. One of the few limiting factors is the level of commander required to approve various awards which is supposed to act like a QA/QC function. Handing awards out like candy results in Soldiers looking like Soviet generals and feeling (or should feel) like a Special Olympics participant (everyone is a winner).
- Badges. A badge is not a guarantee of a top notch Soldier but it is (or should be) an indicator that a Soldier has met a certain performance standard and therefore a base line of competence.
- Promotions. Promotion rates go up and down over time based upon supply and demand. This means growing Armies have increased promotion rates and necessarily an overall reduced quality. Shrinking Armies have the reverse as a macro statement. There are always exceptions to the rule at the individual level.
- Separations. Same principle as above but mirror image. Simply stated, a Soldier separated from the Army in 2008 was a POS but a Soldier separated in 2014 was not necessarily a POS. The cut line merely moved based upon supply and demand and therefore a different standard results.
- Pay, Awards, Promotions. We are paid to do our job, we receive awards for going above and beyond in the performance of our job, we are promoted based upon our potential to serve at a higher pay grade. Three different criteria for three different purposes that unfortunately people get confused on. Awards should not be given for merely doing one's job and promotions should not be based merely upon performance.
- Awards. There is a limited number of awards for which a commander has wide discretion on giving. One of the few limiting factors is the level of commander required to approve various awards which is supposed to act like a QA/QC function. Handing awards out like candy results in Soldiers looking like Soviet generals and feeling (or should feel) like a Special Olympics participant (everyone is a winner).
- Badges. A badge is not a guarantee of a top notch Soldier but it is (or should be) an indicator that a Soldier has met a certain performance standard and therefore a base line of competence.
- Promotions. Promotion rates go up and down over time based upon supply and demand. This means growing Armies have increased promotion rates and necessarily an overall reduced quality. Shrinking Armies have the reverse as a macro statement. There are always exceptions to the rule at the individual level.
- Separations. Same principle as above but mirror image. Simply stated, a Soldier separated from the Army in 2008 was a POS but a Soldier separated in 2014 was not necessarily a POS. The cut line merely moved based upon supply and demand and therefore a different standard results.
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CPT (Join to see)
I am going to have to steal that first paragraph for when I mentor other soldiers. That is honestly one of the best explanations that I have ever heard. I do think some awards are merely given out for just being there. I read here about how a soldier was put in for an award for working hard and raising his PT score 30 point and finally passing. The PNCO denied it and explained that he is supposed to pass the APFT. Just trying really hard to meet the standard shouldn't be on par with trying really hard to excel to the top.
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SGT (Join to see)
Do not take this as an attack, but mere inquiry: why is it that a 2LT leaves a unit after 24 months with an MSM and a SGT who busted his balls for 4 years, obviously went above and beyond, leaves with an AAM? And then there are the officers who like to remind everyone that specific ranks will never qualify for certain awards? Seen this many times and most people in the army don't even know that there is only one award in the regulation that mentions a rank requirement. And what's worse, the senior enlisted advisors to these commanders, who should know better, let it happen.
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TSgt Joshua Copeland
We have no where near the "pieces of flair" the army has. Just look at your picture compared to his. I would bet that his resume is far more distinguished.
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LTC (Join to see)
Gentlemen, I understand the point your making but seriously cut the crap. That is a Command Chief Master Sergeant and you are posting his face and basically mocking his awards. Does the Air Force give more awards on a regular basis to its Airmen? Maybe but totally irrelevant. This is disrespectful to post his face on a post speaking about awards in an manner that smears his honor without knowing what he did to earn those awards.
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I was already out when the black beret for regular troops. Many of my other airborne friends were not as annoyed as I was. We earned that beret. We didn't just graduate from jump school but more importantly we lived and worked as elite soldiers. Some of us going on to far more elite units than us.
Interstingly my friends we wore the green and black beret's were the least likely to make a fuss. I think that speaks volumes. True professionals. The beret was a symbol for them but their job was what was and is important.
I sure do wish though that there was more for troops to aspire to. Geeze, I guess my unit would all wear the sapper tab. We went to Jungle school so I guess we would get a tab for that. Pretty soon we'd run out of space!
Interstingly my friends we wore the green and black beret's were the least likely to make a fuss. I think that speaks volumes. True professionals. The beret was a symbol for them but their job was what was and is important.
I sure do wish though that there was more for troops to aspire to. Geeze, I guess my unit would all wear the sapper tab. We went to Jungle school so I guess we would get a tab for that. Pretty soon we'd run out of space!
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I don't have an issue with most of those - the one that I do find amusing however is seeing soldiers who were attached to 44th medcom wearing airborn tabs even though they've never jumped out of anything.
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MAJ (Join to see)
SSgt (Join to see) I'm aware that it's part of the unit patch - and that's why I find it amusing.
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SGM Mike Hardin
That cracks me up. I remember during jump school in 1977 during "tower week" my stick was on the swing land trainer and I screwed up a PLF. The black hat that was watching me ran over, got in my face and started to explain in the way only a drill or a black hat could what kind of dirt bag I was. It was then he noticed I was wearing a 82nd patch and wanted to know why I was wearing a "Airborne" tab on my shoulder. Me being a dumb PVT I tried to explain that it was part of the 82nd patch. Wrong answer! The black hat then flicked out his buck knife and cut the Airborne tab off my shoulder and sent me to the penalty PT pit. I got off lucky that day, and only had to do an hour in the penalty pit. Army was a tad different back then. All the drills, instructors and just about everyone over the rank of E6 and O4 was a Veitnam Vet.
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This is what I always liked about the Marine uniform. The differences between two Marines in full Dress from E9 to E1 are actually rather insignificant.
Sure one might have fewer medals & ribbons, but there are no patches, tabs, berets, lanyards, spurs, etc.
Just a shitload of Stripes & Hashmarks. The medals you see are his. They go with him wherever he goes. You know exactly where you stand. And damn near everyone has those beautiful crossed rifles.
Sure one might have fewer medals & ribbons, but there are no patches, tabs, berets, lanyards, spurs, etc.
Just a shitload of Stripes & Hashmarks. The medals you see are his. They go with him wherever he goes. You know exactly where you stand. And damn near everyone has those beautiful crossed rifles.
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CPT (Join to see)
True but the army is an extremely diverse place. There are so many different types of units and histories that vary. I don't think it is too bad. It can't get carried away but I like wearing my combat patch. It shows my experience and my history. Some badges I don't agree with but tabs like Ranger, Sapper, and Special Forces are good. They show what skills you have.
One thing that always struck me odd about the Marines is that they are hard to tell about. I know all of them are riflemen, i get that, but then you have the fighters. I run into Marines that they say they are Recon. Then I ask about recon stuff and find that they are just in a Recon unit and are not even 03 seriest all. We have Marines here on the compound here and I can't tell how are what. If they are in what unit or anything. It has it advantages. at times.
One thing that always struck me odd about the Marines is that they are hard to tell about. I know all of them are riflemen, i get that, but then you have the fighters. I run into Marines that they say they are Recon. Then I ask about recon stuff and find that they are just in a Recon unit and are not even 03 seriest all. We have Marines here on the compound here and I can't tell how are what. If they are in what unit or anything. It has it advantages. at times.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
I was actually have a discussion with my wife yesterday (also a Marine). She has an old Name Plate from being in the band. I made a comment about liking not having nametags on service & dress uniforms. Anyone who needs to know who I am, does. Otherwise I was just Sgt. Any other Marine was just Capt, GySgt, etc.
The really nice part about this is that you just assume that ANY Corporal can do what any other Corporal can do. Why not, he's a fucking NCO.
The really nice part about this is that you just assume that ANY Corporal can do what any other Corporal can do. Why not, he's a fucking NCO.
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CPT (Join to see)
Don't you dare speak of that again. If they do I will wait until I am a GEN and then make up a whole new tab just for me so I can feel special.
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TSgt (Join to see)
{Insert obligatory comment about "The Thread" being used as the basis for CPT (Join to see)'s unique award.}
[Recieve thumbs]
Do I get a ribbon for that formula for Rallypoint influence success? =P
[Recieve thumbs]
Do I get a ribbon for that formula for Rallypoint influence success? =P
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