Posted on Jun 29, 2021
Is a CSM also wrong if they start publicly chewing out a LT, and the LT then locks up the CSM?
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Edit:
I have received a lot of feedback and discussion, which is awesome!!! This was intended for a professional development discussion amongst senior leaders, and a whole bunch have chimed in, so thank you very much for that!
I think the scenario I was picturing in my head is a bit different than what others were picturing, but that is great, I left it a bit vague on purpose to get a wider array of responses and experiences.
Not that there has been a bit of discussion, here is kind of what I was picturing....
CSM is posted up someplace, kind of surveying things. A short distance (call it 25 feet) away, a SPC walks past an LT, renders a smart salute, accompanied by the greeting of the day, and the LT blows him off. SPC does what he is supposed to do, continues on for 6 paces, drops his salute, and carries on with life. CSM, however, is not going to let this go. In my experience, he also is not about to run after the LT to have a "private conversation." So, CSM bellows out for the LT, in the way that only CSMs can, and politely asks for the LT to come over. Something along the lines of "Hey, Lieutenant Smith, can I have a word?" The LT, now pissed off, stalks over to the CSM and before the CSM can even salute, the LT tells the CSM how important and busy he is, and the CSM should know better than to interrupt the LT.
At this point, the CSM, in my opinion, would be better served to bring the discussion *more* private, by asking the LT to step inside, or if he is "too busy" to come see him and the LTC at 1700. But in my experience, many CSMs would feel the need to be heard, and would take measures to do so.
That was the situation in my head. And I think most of your answers have addressed it in some manner or other.
Again, I appreciate the discussion. And for those who answered early and move on, I encourage you to read through some other responses. The entire intent was professional development, after all! (Even for those old codgers who have forgotten more about professionalism than I will ever know, we can all still keep growing!)
Thanks again!!!
Professional Development question for the senior leaders:
I am sure we have all seen, or at least read a couple stories of the CSM chewing out a young LT when the LT decides to assert rank and lock up the CSM. Inevitably these stories end with the young LT being called onto the BC's carpet (or sometimes the CG) and ripped a new one while the CSM looks on smugly.
And we all chuckle at the important life lesson the young LT learned about the difference between rank and authority.
But I got to thinking...........
If things get to the point where that LT is feeling disrespected, belittled, and/or intentionally intimidated, isn't the CSM already in the wrong? Especially if this is in front of troops? I absolutely understand the difference between rank and authority, but shouldn't that CSM be setting the example of tact and respect (s)he expects their Soldiers to follow? Should we be stopping to wonder what is that CSM's major malfunction is, such that they felt the need to publicly disrespect a Commissioned Officer?
In all of the stories I have read about this situation, I don't remember that ever being discussed. So.... discuss....
(Or don't).
EDIT: Admins changed the topic to "who is in the wrong." This is less a question of who is wrong. I am working off the assumption that the CSM is not lighting up the LT for no reason, so the LT is assumed to be in the wrong here. It is a question of, is not the CSM ALSO wrong?
I have received a lot of feedback and discussion, which is awesome!!! This was intended for a professional development discussion amongst senior leaders, and a whole bunch have chimed in, so thank you very much for that!
I think the scenario I was picturing in my head is a bit different than what others were picturing, but that is great, I left it a bit vague on purpose to get a wider array of responses and experiences.
Not that there has been a bit of discussion, here is kind of what I was picturing....
CSM is posted up someplace, kind of surveying things. A short distance (call it 25 feet) away, a SPC walks past an LT, renders a smart salute, accompanied by the greeting of the day, and the LT blows him off. SPC does what he is supposed to do, continues on for 6 paces, drops his salute, and carries on with life. CSM, however, is not going to let this go. In my experience, he also is not about to run after the LT to have a "private conversation." So, CSM bellows out for the LT, in the way that only CSMs can, and politely asks for the LT to come over. Something along the lines of "Hey, Lieutenant Smith, can I have a word?" The LT, now pissed off, stalks over to the CSM and before the CSM can even salute, the LT tells the CSM how important and busy he is, and the CSM should know better than to interrupt the LT.
At this point, the CSM, in my opinion, would be better served to bring the discussion *more* private, by asking the LT to step inside, or if he is "too busy" to come see him and the LTC at 1700. But in my experience, many CSMs would feel the need to be heard, and would take measures to do so.
That was the situation in my head. And I think most of your answers have addressed it in some manner or other.
Again, I appreciate the discussion. And for those who answered early and move on, I encourage you to read through some other responses. The entire intent was professional development, after all! (Even for those old codgers who have forgotten more about professionalism than I will ever know, we can all still keep growing!)
Thanks again!!!
Professional Development question for the senior leaders:
I am sure we have all seen, or at least read a couple stories of the CSM chewing out a young LT when the LT decides to assert rank and lock up the CSM. Inevitably these stories end with the young LT being called onto the BC's carpet (or sometimes the CG) and ripped a new one while the CSM looks on smugly.
And we all chuckle at the important life lesson the young LT learned about the difference between rank and authority.
But I got to thinking...........
If things get to the point where that LT is feeling disrespected, belittled, and/or intentionally intimidated, isn't the CSM already in the wrong? Especially if this is in front of troops? I absolutely understand the difference between rank and authority, but shouldn't that CSM be setting the example of tact and respect (s)he expects their Soldiers to follow? Should we be stopping to wonder what is that CSM's major malfunction is, such that they felt the need to publicly disrespect a Commissioned Officer?
In all of the stories I have read about this situation, I don't remember that ever being discussed. So.... discuss....
(Or don't).
EDIT: Admins changed the topic to "who is in the wrong." This is less a question of who is wrong. I am working off the assumption that the CSM is not lighting up the LT for no reason, so the LT is assumed to be in the wrong here. It is a question of, is not the CSM ALSO wrong?
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Professional Development
Respect
Professional Development Respect
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
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Long story as short as possible.
Gaggle of new reporting 2ndLts eating in the dining facility. Regimental SgtMaj starts running his mouth about how screwed up butter bars are. The conversation isn't quiet, is loud enough to be heard by the majority of the Marines in the dinfac and is obviously intended for the benefit of the 2ndLts. What the SgtMaj didn't know was that one of the 2ndLts was a mustang that had been a GySgt prior to commissioning. After about 10 minutes of the SgtMaj's rant the mustang stands up, walks over to the table and asks the SgtMaj
"So, what are you doing to unfuck us butterbars?"
The SgtMaj does his best R. Lee Ermey drill sgt. routine ass chewing on the mustang. 2ndLt waits til the SgtMaj is done. Obviously unimpressed, 2ndLt laughs and invites the Regimental Sgt Maj to join him in the BnCmdr's office for a SNCO led remedial training course to get the 2ndLts up to speed. Regt SgtMaj declines with a few vulgar comments about the 2ndLts mother.
2ndLt, Company CO, BnSgtMaj and BnCO have a visit with Reg CO later that day. Next day the new Rgt SgtMaj assumes the billet. Never saw the old Regt SgtMaj again.
During my career, I had the good fortune to have great leaders assigned as my senior enlisted advisors. I only had two senior officers who actually took the time to be mentors.
Gaggle of new reporting 2ndLts eating in the dining facility. Regimental SgtMaj starts running his mouth about how screwed up butter bars are. The conversation isn't quiet, is loud enough to be heard by the majority of the Marines in the dinfac and is obviously intended for the benefit of the 2ndLts. What the SgtMaj didn't know was that one of the 2ndLts was a mustang that had been a GySgt prior to commissioning. After about 10 minutes of the SgtMaj's rant the mustang stands up, walks over to the table and asks the SgtMaj
"So, what are you doing to unfuck us butterbars?"
The SgtMaj does his best R. Lee Ermey drill sgt. routine ass chewing on the mustang. 2ndLt waits til the SgtMaj is done. Obviously unimpressed, 2ndLt laughs and invites the Regimental Sgt Maj to join him in the BnCmdr's office for a SNCO led remedial training course to get the 2ndLts up to speed. Regt SgtMaj declines with a few vulgar comments about the 2ndLts mother.
2ndLt, Company CO, BnSgtMaj and BnCO have a visit with Reg CO later that day. Next day the new Rgt SgtMaj assumes the billet. Never saw the old Regt SgtMaj again.
During my career, I had the good fortune to have great leaders assigned as my senior enlisted advisors. I only had two senior officers who actually took the time to be mentors.
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I have heard stories about things like this happening. But I have never actually witnessed it happening. As such I believe this is more about barracks scuttlebutt then actual happenings.
First of all I don't see a SGM, of any sort, dressing down a Lt publicly, ever, period, end of story.
Secondly, I don't see a LT. ever having to actually interact with the CSM.
As a young, and I mean young, plane captain I have had several instances of dealing with officers and Petty Officers. And I have had two occasion where I had to exert my authority over said officer or petty officer.
You never do it disrespectfully, and whether the CSM wants to admit it or not, that LT, by virtue of being an officer, deserves the same respect one would give a four star general; They are officers first, and grade second.
I for one am tired of people acting like the chain of command only works for E-4 and below. If i was a nugget officer with one day of active duty, and the CSM tried to lay into me like a I was some dumb fucking private, I would remind him that he was speaking to an officer.
As the chief ADVISOR to the BN commander the sergeant majors job is to find holes in the system and then offer solutions to the BN commander, not degrade Platoon Leaders in front of their troops.
CSM is not in my chain of command at all.
First of all I don't see a SGM, of any sort, dressing down a Lt publicly, ever, period, end of story.
Secondly, I don't see a LT. ever having to actually interact with the CSM.
As a young, and I mean young, plane captain I have had several instances of dealing with officers and Petty Officers. And I have had two occasion where I had to exert my authority over said officer or petty officer.
You never do it disrespectfully, and whether the CSM wants to admit it or not, that LT, by virtue of being an officer, deserves the same respect one would give a four star general; They are officers first, and grade second.
I for one am tired of people acting like the chain of command only works for E-4 and below. If i was a nugget officer with one day of active duty, and the CSM tried to lay into me like a I was some dumb fucking private, I would remind him that he was speaking to an officer.
As the chief ADVISOR to the BN commander the sergeant majors job is to find holes in the system and then offer solutions to the BN commander, not degrade Platoon Leaders in front of their troops.
CSM is not in my chain of command at all.
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SFC Casey O'Mally
Imagine, if you will, a young SPC walks by a LT, renders a smart salute, accompanied by the greeting of the day. About 15m away is a CSM impressed by the sharp salute. And then the CSM watches the LT just keep on walking without returning the salute.
You think that CSM is going to ignore it? Hell no. CSM is calling the LT over. And if LT blows off CSM and makes CSM track him down it will be even uglier.
In a perfect world, CSM wouldn't have to dress down an LT. The world is not perfect.
Now, once the LT comes over, how the conversation proceeds is what I was really driving at with this question. I am operating from the assumption that the LT has done something deserving of a correction to begin with - and that the CSM is an appropriate authority for said correction.
And yes, sometimes, it IS important to make a spectacle of an on-the-spot correction, even of an officer. It puts *everyone* on notice that standards *will* be maintained - and Officers are not exempt.
That being said, there is a time and place, and these things should be done tactically.
You think that CSM is going to ignore it? Hell no. CSM is calling the LT over. And if LT blows off CSM and makes CSM track him down it will be even uglier.
In a perfect world, CSM wouldn't have to dress down an LT. The world is not perfect.
Now, once the LT comes over, how the conversation proceeds is what I was really driving at with this question. I am operating from the assumption that the LT has done something deserving of a correction to begin with - and that the CSM is an appropriate authority for said correction.
And yes, sometimes, it IS important to make a spectacle of an on-the-spot correction, even of an officer. It puts *everyone* on notice that standards *will* be maintained - and Officers are not exempt.
That being said, there is a time and place, and these things should be done tactically.
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SPC Chris Ison
SFC Casey O'Mally - Imagine if you will that said Lt, the BN PA, did not 'ignore' said salute, but instead was moving, with a purpose, because he needed to get from A to B, without incident, in order to save a life. The CSM thinking he is fucking god just cost someone a life.
Take your fucking hypothetical somewhere else.
It is not the job of a SGM (E-9) to correct a LT, even a nugget one, with some exceptions like for safety. If this was a true issue, then the CSM could issue a simple memo about saluting. It doesn't have to be a fucking one on one issue. and it is always better to make it a BN wide issue when it is something retarded like saluting.
I am not some fucking dumb ass that has never lead. And unlike the military I have lead in an environment where the employees could fucking quit.
As I said the CSM job is not to dress down LT's. His job is force protection and NCO support issues.
If it chapped his hide that much the best thing to do is go to the LT's company commander and relay the lack of 'discipline' if that what your concern is, in his company officers.
Just like it would be my duty to report an NCO I saw violating an order or regulation, I would do it to his supervisor and let them handle it internally.
It is NOT the job of the CSM to correct any type of issue with an officer, it is not in his lane.
Take your fucking hypothetical somewhere else.
It is not the job of a SGM (E-9) to correct a LT, even a nugget one, with some exceptions like for safety. If this was a true issue, then the CSM could issue a simple memo about saluting. It doesn't have to be a fucking one on one issue. and it is always better to make it a BN wide issue when it is something retarded like saluting.
I am not some fucking dumb ass that has never lead. And unlike the military I have lead in an environment where the employees could fucking quit.
As I said the CSM job is not to dress down LT's. His job is force protection and NCO support issues.
If it chapped his hide that much the best thing to do is go to the LT's company commander and relay the lack of 'discipline' if that what your concern is, in his company officers.
Just like it would be my duty to report an NCO I saw violating an order or regulation, I would do it to his supervisor and let them handle it internally.
It is NOT the job of the CSM to correct any type of issue with an officer, it is not in his lane.
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SFC Casey O'Mally
SPC Chris Ison wrong.
NCOs are the standard bearers. It is EVERY NCO's job to fix failures to meet standards. And the CSM moreso than anyone else in the BN.
If you don't understand that, you don't understand the Army.
All Soldiers have the authority to make an on-the-spot correction. Even Privates. As a young SPC I made an on-the-spot correction to my division Commander (MG). You know what he said? "Thank you." Then he fixed himself and we both carried on.
I, too, have lead where people can quit. And you know what? I still enforced standards.
NCOs are the standard bearers. It is EVERY NCO's job to fix failures to meet standards. And the CSM moreso than anyone else in the BN.
If you don't understand that, you don't understand the Army.
All Soldiers have the authority to make an on-the-spot correction. Even Privates. As a young SPC I made an on-the-spot correction to my division Commander (MG). You know what he said? "Thank you." Then he fixed himself and we both carried on.
I, too, have lead where people can quit. And you know what? I still enforced standards.
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SPC Chris Ison
SFC Casey O'Mally - It is interesting that in your own question, you forget that we are not talking about an "on the spot correction" now are we?
We are talking about a correction, that is taking some amount of time, enough time for said Lt to feel disrespected by the CSM.
And that was your question right?
So, since you obliviously now how the CSM is supposed to correct a dumb LT, and since we know these types of corrections are not discussions, then they are not germane to the question.
So, I am not wrong, you are.
As I said it is NOT the job of the CSM to dress down an officer.
And that is the part you are missing.
Had a SGT in my unit pull up one day no kevlar on, sitting backside on the back of the humvee. We chatted a bit, then my SL turned to me and said, "Where would you like to go to day, Ison?" and i responded, "I don't care if where we go, as long as we get to ride without Kevlars like Sgt Doe."
Was that out of line? Oh you had better believe it was, but it was also an on the spot safety correction, towards and the NCO, who knew he was wrong, simply put his Kevalr on and we left. These things happen in all sorts of ways.
But you would not catch me, a specialist, dressing down an NCO trying to explain to him that he needed to "lead by example," and "All rules are important," make sure no one sees him doing stupid shit like that, especially lower enlisted personnel, etc.
BECAUSE THAT IS NOT MY FUCKING JOB. And it is not the JOB of the CSM to correct officers in that manner, that comes from the officers above them.
The courtesy that goes along with rank is required of all enlisted personnel. Maybe you have forgotten that because you have been running around bullying junior officers, but I wouldn't have your fucking shit.
We are talking about a correction, that is taking some amount of time, enough time for said Lt to feel disrespected by the CSM.
And that was your question right?
So, since you obliviously now how the CSM is supposed to correct a dumb LT, and since we know these types of corrections are not discussions, then they are not germane to the question.
So, I am not wrong, you are.
As I said it is NOT the job of the CSM to dress down an officer.
And that is the part you are missing.
Had a SGT in my unit pull up one day no kevlar on, sitting backside on the back of the humvee. We chatted a bit, then my SL turned to me and said, "Where would you like to go to day, Ison?" and i responded, "I don't care if where we go, as long as we get to ride without Kevlars like Sgt Doe."
Was that out of line? Oh you had better believe it was, but it was also an on the spot safety correction, towards and the NCO, who knew he was wrong, simply put his Kevalr on and we left. These things happen in all sorts of ways.
But you would not catch me, a specialist, dressing down an NCO trying to explain to him that he needed to "lead by example," and "All rules are important," make sure no one sees him doing stupid shit like that, especially lower enlisted personnel, etc.
BECAUSE THAT IS NOT MY FUCKING JOB. And it is not the JOB of the CSM to correct officers in that manner, that comes from the officers above them.
The courtesy that goes along with rank is required of all enlisted personnel. Maybe you have forgotten that because you have been running around bullying junior officers, but I wouldn't have your fucking shit.
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First off let me say I'm a mustang; for those of you not familiar with that moniker that's an officer with enlisted service. As a newly commissioned officer I realized that my limited knowledge of my MOS, that of an Artillery Officer, I realized that the 13E MOS didn't help when it came to the 13A MOS which required a far more comprehensive knowledge of the field artilleryman for the officer. I kept my eyes and ears open and my mouth shut and observed the NCOs ostensibly in my charge and selected a section chief who doubled occasionally as the Chief of Firing battery (the second most senior NCO in a field artillery battery) on split shoots and ASKED him if he would consider acting as a mentor until I had my feet fully under me as a field artilleryman. He agreed to do that. On a couple occasions he had to grab me by the scruff and discretely correct me and in doing so kept me out of trouble. That NCO had a 9th grade education but was the equal of any competent field artillery officer I knew when it came to being an artilleryman. Yes, he chewed my backside a couple of times but never in front of the troops or other officers. I would be proud to serve with him to this day.
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Stay cool and get the mission done.
There is a karma about these situations; when folks are wrong, it always comes out eventually and you don't have to lift a finger. It might take awhile, and some patience, but bad leaders, both commissioned, noncommissioned or otherwise will eventually be outed as bad leaders.
FWIW.
There is a karma about these situations; when folks are wrong, it always comes out eventually and you don't have to lift a finger. It might take awhile, and some patience, but bad leaders, both commissioned, noncommissioned or otherwise will eventually be outed as bad leaders.
FWIW.
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I may be alone in this but I think a big part of this is something I recognized while still serving. A soldier who has seen a rotation anywhere will do what an officer tells them if it’s not outrageously stupid, but for a E5+ they would die for them. I was lucky enough to have served with a few Non coms that I absolutely would have followed into the breach without any kind of thought, I also had 2-3 officers who were equally impressive, point in fact I had a similar problem with a LT when we were on FTX I was responsible for the front gate, we were digging the hole for the .50, someone with more authority than common sense decided to bump my gate somewhere it shouldn’t be, but like a good soldier I started getting it ready despite knowing it was in the wrong spot (zero visibility and no way to stop incoming) we broke for chow having switched digging crews and the LT came to “inspect my AO” I told my guys to keep eating, when she asked for the site map I gave her the paper with a .50 pit and a line 8 meters out, she asked where was the rest, and why wasn’t it at attention, I said I didn’t have any more because you can’t see past that spot because were in the wrong spot and last time I checked we don’t salute in the field and when on a work crew and when on chow, and we were all three. She said that I need to do what I was told and to update the site picture. Later in the Capt’s tent he laughed and agreed with everything I said and said I was right but you still have to respect their rank. I did notice she didn’t have much to say when we all saluted her next we saw her. Funny little addition she was caught cheating on her enlisted husband overseas.
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When we rotated back to Kuwait from Iraq the national guard there were the same ones who weren’t resupplying us because the route was “too dangerous “ but when we pulled in to the cabal and they didn’t challenge us and were walking around in shorts and flip flops my CSM lost his mind (keep in mind we were still carrying full combat load of ammo 2 grenades and full battle rattle) he marched into the TOC and ripped some skin off some ass and it was the whole CMND not some butter bar, that day they were pulling guard duty and wearing military uniforms. I’m always going to assume that a CSM is speaking with the voice of god almighty and woe unto they who were dumb enough to cause his eye to stop there for a minute. Every Chief, Drill SGT and CSM usually has decades of experience and in my mind speaks and embodies Samuel L Jackson. Get to parade rest and hope you have enough ass to chew.
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Every CSM or CMS are selected because of their ability to get the assigned missions completed without loss of life or injury for ALL enlisted members. His loyalty is towards GOD, Country and prior countless military deployment. The today officers LT and others are being trained in the so called Woke/Socialism training by our Pentagon Politicians. This happened in the Vietnam conflict with extreme circumstances that the officers did not take advice from the CSM. Those problems were cleansed up to Desert Storm. Afterwards the Desert Storm countless skilled commission officers and enlisted were targeted by State Department and our draft dodging Clinton administration laying the foundation Socialism as our country suffers.
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I have observed first hand in the Army and in the Air Force there are some really STRAC CSMs and CSMs both who I have been honored and benefited to serve with.
Then there are just E9s.
Then there are just E9s.
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I think the CSM is wrong!! He should have called the LT aside, and discussed the matter, but not in front of the LT's troops.
It reminds me of a MAC NCO driving into my reinforced position, with no notice. I was on a M-60s and should have put a few rounds in front of the jeep. I decided it looked like an Army jeep and did not fire. When he got inside the defense perimeter, he was completely in subordinate. I should have put him under arrest and called SeaHorse 6, in Vinh Long, S Vietnam. Why do NCO's think they are little GODs??
It reminds me of a MAC NCO driving into my reinforced position, with no notice. I was on a M-60s and should have put a few rounds in front of the jeep. I decided it looked like an Army jeep and did not fire. When he got inside the defense perimeter, he was completely in subordinate. I should have put him under arrest and called SeaHorse 6, in Vinh Long, S Vietnam. Why do NCO's think they are little GODs??
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I saw it first hand in Iraq. A 1LT made a decision to go into an area he was told not to go into. The 1LT decided to go anyway. They were ambushed and 4 soldiers and a translator were killed. When he returned, a CSM grabbed him by the collar pinned him against a wall and chewed him out. The CSM told him he disobeyed orders by going into that order and the CSM dismissed him. The Commander of the BN followed suit and sent the 1LT to be demoted and arrested until they could get paperwork to have him discharged. Unknown if this 1LT was sent to Leavenworth or just kicked out of the Army with a Bad Conduct Discharge.
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I never saw anything like that happen. Jr. Officers sometimes need to be set straight, in a tactful manner of course. They don't have much experience and their mentor probably has a couple of years over them. Their rank power goes to their heads some times. A CSM has been around the block several times when the lieutenants are just taking baby steps.
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While on deployment to Iraq in 2005, I observed a SFC who was the FOB mayor publicly chew out a young 1LT for not carrying his weapon in the low ready on the FOB, as was the FOB rule. It was completely wrong of the SFC to do this. The poor LT just stood there not knowing what to do. It reminded me of a drill Sgt and a new soldier in basic training. It was so loud and disrespectful that a crowd gathered. As if that was not enough, the SFC " ordered " the LT to the FOB office and then proceeded to march him to the office. WAY out of line of the SFC. poor leadership on SFC's part. FYI, I was not the LT,
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During an NCOPD our CSM politely asked an onlooking CPT to leave the conference room. Captain immediately became defensive, utilizing his rank and athority with a whiff of a-hole superiority. CSM left and returned with the BN Commander who called the CPT from the room. No leader should belitte another Infront of soldiers. I'm not gunna beat a dead horse. I just wanted to share my experience.
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Although there can be conflicts between LTs and NCOs, it is routinely short-lived. The reason for this is power dynamics not rank. If an LT has any common sense or a good NCO battle buddy, then the conflict is kept private and managed. Because one role of an NCO is to train and mentor their battle buddy officer, at every level. PSGs/SFCs guide 1LTs, 1SGs guide Captains, CSM guide everyone. So, if an LT feels disrespected or perceives a personal slight by a CSM, then they might do something stupid, like believe rank is the controlling variable, it isn't. Attempting to 'lock-up' a CSM won't succeed to do anything except escalate conflict. Because the LT's Rater or Senior Rater will respond on behalf of the CSM.
Likewise, if a CSM chews out an LT in public, this causes problems for all involved. Because we praise in public and admonish in private. So, whatever issue the CSM has, the routine process is to mentor the LT in private, as well as involve the unit NCOs to guide the LT. Again, that is one of the roles of all NCOs. Failing that, the CSM is responsible for advising the Commander and the good order and discipline, morale and development of the unit, including officers. As such, the CSM will inform the Commander on a need to develop the LT. And the conversation is much different if the LT attempts to pull rank on the CSM. Because we respect the rank, not the person. Most CSMs will respect the rank but if the LT proceeds to behave like an ass, it rarely turns out well for the LT.
Good officers seek out the CSM to make an introduction, to open and maintain a line of communication and ensure that the LT's development is not thwarted by miscommunication. Poor officers believe rank matters when it comes to power.
Likewise, if a CSM chews out an LT in public, this causes problems for all involved. Because we praise in public and admonish in private. So, whatever issue the CSM has, the routine process is to mentor the LT in private, as well as involve the unit NCOs to guide the LT. Again, that is one of the roles of all NCOs. Failing that, the CSM is responsible for advising the Commander and the good order and discipline, morale and development of the unit, including officers. As such, the CSM will inform the Commander on a need to develop the LT. And the conversation is much different if the LT attempts to pull rank on the CSM. Because we respect the rank, not the person. Most CSMs will respect the rank but if the LT proceeds to behave like an ass, it rarely turns out well for the LT.
Good officers seek out the CSM to make an introduction, to open and maintain a line of communication and ensure that the LT's development is not thwarted by miscommunication. Poor officers believe rank matters when it comes to power.
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Never ever saw a breach of disciple like that. Though had heard a few close things happened in the field under fire:) And that would not be explainable to the state-side desk jockeys peddling the Military Code or civilians. Respect, obey the rank, disciple, alien concepts:) In the field the Sargents run the troops and the officers are suppose to give competent orders. Mitigating circumstances judged by military courts rarely sided with breaking ranks, unless gross incompetence can be shown that kills our troops that borders on criminal negligence. For whatever it's worth most lt are smart enough to take advice.
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That CSM is WAY out of bounds. That LT might be young and lacking, but he is STILL an OFFICER and the CSM is not. I don't care how much "experience" and "years" that CSM has. You respect the rank and the uniform. Teaching and suggestion things to the LT, is one thing. Trying to chew out an officer, is grounds for a court martial.
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Any CSM worth his/her's salt will NEVER do this. As stated by others, the CSM will talk to the young officer quietly off to the side- off line as they might say. I did have a CSM yell at me once- I then politely replied with the old rule of punish in private, praise in public. He was not pleased but conceded that I was right.
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