Posted on Nov 3, 2020
SPC Petroleum Supply Specialist
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For my own curiosity in Army culture, is it appropriate to call a MSG “Top”? I know the phrase refers to the senior ranked enlisted person (1SG) responsible for a Company or Battery, but say there was a Joint Task Force with the highest enlisted rank was an Army MSG. Can they be called “Top”?
Posted in these groups: Rank RankArmy usa or 08b.svg MSGArmy usa or 08a.svg 1SG
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MAJ Matthew Arnold
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It depends on the unit, the commander, and the 1SG. When I had my company command in an aviation assault company (UH-1) I had a SFC for a First Sergeant. I called him Top. The Warrant Officers called him Top. He was the senior enlisted man in the unit therefore Top. When I was an infantry platoon leader in the 82nd airborne we did not call the 1SG Top.
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SGT English/Language Arts Teacher
SGT (Join to see)
5 y
It has been my experience that you never call a First Sergeant Top! At no time did I ever see a combat arms unit call a First Sergeant Top. Some support units did that, but that was rare in an infantry division. MAJ Matthew Arnold
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MSG Dennis Lane
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As a retired master sergeant, I defer that appellation to a first sergeant. My experience is that I was a Battalion S-3 NCO, and I am proud to have filled that position. E-8 is E-8, but the rank devices apply to Master Sergeant and First Sergeant. I think "Top" belongs to a First Sergeant. It's unofficial, I'm sure, but if you call me Top, and some have, I certainly take no offense.
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SGT English/Language Arts Teacher
SGT (Join to see)
5 y
When I was stationed in Germany in an Infantry Division, every platoon sergeant in my battalion was a MSG. I don't know if that was common elsewhere, but it sure was in my combat unit in the 87th Regiment.
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MSG Kevin Travis
MSG Kevin Travis
>1 y
I don’t recall any lower enlisted calling me top face to face, but a lot of officers have...
I once had a major keep calling me master chief because he liked the sound of it better .
But hey it’s all memories now I belong to the gray card club now
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SPC John Decker
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We had a MSG in my unit that told us NOT to call him Top. "When you get the diamond, you earn the nick-name". Something to that effect.
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SSG John Jensen
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one of my 1SGs later became a Warrant Officer - and everytime I saw CW4 Keister I would loudly say "its my favorite 1SG!" He loved it. On occasion he would be with a Maj or similar who would be furious until chief keister answered "hi John!"
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PFC Kimberly Staiti
PFC Kimberly Staiti
5 y
Lol! Long live military humour!
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SSG(P) Detachment Sergeant, Space Detachment
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It simply depends on the culture of the unit. I call any MSG “Sergeant”. No environment I have ever been in have I heard any level of NCOIC (Task Force or otherwise) be called “top”. A task force NCOIC is not the same thing as a 1SG, does not share the same responsibilities, and is not rooted in the same culture as the background of the term “top”. In my *opinion* there’s more to being “top” than being the senior enlisted member of a section.
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MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P
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Never was around many actual Army 1SG but did serve with several MSG's during my many years of joint assignments. Never heard of a MSG being referred to as "Top" though I suppose it could have happened. That term was generally used exclusively for the 1SG and ONLY if s/he had stated they didn't mind the term of address.
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SFC Terry Wilcox
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Stands for TOP Sergeant in a company - - only the First Sergeant is Called "TOP". At times there have been an MSG and even a few SFC's that were assigned in a First Sergeant's slot - therefore they could be addressed as "TOP". A couple times I was the ranking Sergeant in a company - - was not the "TOP", because I wasn't the Company's First Sergeant.
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CSM Charles Hayden
CSM Charles Hayden
5 y
Oh! Were you ever the ‘Field First’?
SFC Terry Wilcox
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SPC Woody Bullard
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My 558th MP Company First Sergeant in Germany did not like any new arriving
MP calling him "Top". After a few months when he got to know you and he did
get to know all of us he felt the "Top" reference to his First Sergeant rank was
OK coming from veteran MP's. He did not like "First Shirt" used by anyone.
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SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
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I've heard the term First Shirt and Top but usually only when talking about them, not to addressing them in person. As an Air Force First Sergeant at one point the only one I ever heard address Me as top was an Army Troop, I'm not bothered by it but never used that term or First Shirt Myself in addressing a First Sergeant and don't intend to either.
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SSG Observer   Controller/Trainer (Oc/T)
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Depends, I guess. I never referred to any 1SG as top. I hear it more in the Reserves, but still I never refer to a 1SG as top.
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MSG Intermediate Care Technician
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I was a SSG in one unit. I was in the Detachment Sergeant spot. That is the spot for the Senior Enlisted Advisor to the Commander. I was called "Top" from time to time. It's unit depending. If the MSG is the Top Kick in the unit....then they could be called "Top" if they allow it.
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MSG Dennis Lane
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I think some of these nicknames come from WWII. The Company Commander, even though he was in his 20's, was the Old Man. The First Sergeant was the Top Kick. A second lieutenant was a Louie. None of these is probably an appropriate term for direct address.
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PO3 Scot Fahey
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US Navy has Master Chief for E-9
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MSG Brian Keene
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It never bothered me. I was the acting BN and BDE CSM as a MSG for several months at a time multiple times.
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PFC Kimberly Staiti
PFC Kimberly Staiti
5 y
That's a lot of work and responsibilities to handle without the rank to back you up. Congratulations, you must have been great at it!
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Maj Charles Porter
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Call'em first shirt or sleeve. Top kick is always a good one. The Master Sergeant who ran the turret shop, Had been a Major in Viet Nam and reverted. I just called him Sir.
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MSG Intelligence Analyst
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I have always called my 1SG—or any 1SG—Top. I have never met a 1SG who didn’t want to be called Top.

I get called Top on occasion; not sure why. My title is SGT and not Top or Master Sergeant
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MSG David Holmden
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There’s MANY ways this could be answered. From what I’ve seen in my career it’s ALL over the place. Many of the units I’ve been in or associated with is 1SG is 1SG, MSG is Top, but many 1SG’s usually have been MSG’s and like the “nick name” Top. Because I was in units that I’ve seen it both ways, it’s usually good to just ask when you start interactions with them. I was an E-7 but was interm 1SG until the new 1SG was brought in, many called me Top just because of the position. But between MSG and 1SG it’s the same darn rank, it’s just a position, no one should get all bent because someone “called” you by your rank. If ya prefer Top, NP, if ya prefer 1SG, so be it.
Just my two pennies for the day!!
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MSG Jim Conley
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Might do to understand the history of "top sergeant" aka "first Sergeant"...
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MSG Reid Zohfeld
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No you should not call a MSG top That’s only for 1Sgt
My troops called me Boss I was ok with that
I see some 1st Sgt responded they don’t like it the phase Top
These are Top’s are up tight and are driven by power not the pursuit of the troops
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SGT English/Language Arts Teacher
SGT (Join to see)
5 y
No infantry first sergeant is called "Top". We had strict protocols. When I was an E-4P, I was not allowed to eat with enlisted. We had an area for NCOs to eat. It enforced discipline. We did not call that " uptight".
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MSG Reid Zohfeld
MSG Reid Zohfeld
5 y
SGT (Join to see)
That was only where you where stationed Infantry was allowed to call the 1st Sgt Top As you know it’s not a rank it’s respect
And the time frame you where 4P Well just say you are stretching it a little
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PFC Kimberly Staiti
PFC Kimberly Staiti
5 y
MSG Reid Zohfeld I find it odd that you would suggest in public that you don't believe the word of a fellow SM or veteran. Benefit of the doubt?
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SPC Robert DeVolld
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If you had a Jewish 1st Sergeant, would you call him "dredle"?
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MSG Mechanic 2nd
MSG (Join to see)
4 y
PFC Kimberly Staiti - dredle is a top, i believe
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PFC Kimberly Staiti
PFC Kimberly Staiti
4 y
MSG (Join to see) My family is Jewish. A dreidel is a toy that spins: a top. I get that. Thank you. I was saying that I don't know the military history behind calling a company's First Sergeant by the nickname of "Top." I don't know whether or not calling a Sergeant Major by " Top" is appropriate. Thanks for trying, though. I appreciate your help!
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MSG Mechanic 2nd
MSG (Join to see)
4 y
PFC Kimberly Staiti - you are correct calling a SMG top is never good, just wasn't clear of your knowledge base on dredle, depending on who you ask top is different, in the Marines top is the master sergeant, 1Sgt is refered to 1st shirt or 1SGT, Army depends again who you ask and what type of unit involved, my last unit senior medical SGT was the MSG, my CO and everybody else called me top or 1SG, I prefered top as i wasn't frocked yet, rule of thumb you see the diamond its 1SG anything else SGT, hope that might be of help.
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PFC Kimberly Staiti
PFC Kimberly Staiti
4 y
MSG (Join to see) Thanks for a great answer!
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