Posted on Feb 4, 2015
Is it appropiate for a prior service member to correct service members on AR 670-1 violations?
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Is it appropriate for any PSMs to correct the violations of AR 670-1 on any currently serving SM? This includes any rank (PVT to O-5). As a PSM who honorably served in the Army, I see many soldiers who violate AR 670-1, And I have corrected most, including SGTs and higher (I am a PV2). Am I wrong for this? And, can we, as PSMs report disrespect after corrections to brigade commanders if corrections are ignored? Thoughts, please.
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Army Regulations
Army Regulations
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 77
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NCO till I die! If I see some poor young LT or junior enlisted troop heading towards an ass chewing, I'm going to hook a brother up. I see it as helping, not interfering. We may retire from the leadership position, but not being a leader.
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CPT Jacob Swartout
As leaders, we must enforce and show others what right looks like. Not only do I personally feel that it is our obligation to do so, but something that gives way for others to become better leaders through our actions. I would rather correct someone on the side than to see them blasted by others for being out of regulations.
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Frankly, if I were walking around all ate up (it happens to us all), I would want someone to stop me and square me away. I wouldn't let pride keep me from receiving the correction. The alternative is to be a casual laughingstock until someone with guts DOES fix you or you catch it yourself.
I view it as the equivalent to going on a date with spinach stuck in your teeth, Please tell me.
I view it as the equivalent to going on a date with spinach stuck in your teeth, Please tell me.
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SFC Mark Merino
Although I HIGHLY doubt we catching you slacking 1SG (Join to see).....we got your 6! A young PV2 ran up to a CSM in his greens and locked up in front of him to respectfully inform him that he had a piece of paper sticking out of his pocket. The CSM thanked him (IN BN Dress Green FORMATION!) CSM released him on the spot, and claimed (we will never know the truth) that he did it on purpose and was passed by countless senior leaders and it took a PV2 to correct the deficiency. That really stuck with me over the years.
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SFC (Join to see)
Sure, as long as the civilian has the AR-670-1 app on their smart phone and knows what they are talking about and are tactful, why not?
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PO2 (Join to see)
It shouldn't matter if they are active, prior service or a civilian with pride in their military who knows the regulations. If you are out of regs you need a reminder, who cares who it is from as long as it is tactful. The best advice I ever heard was  a story of someone taking an ass chewing for someone else's mistake. When it came out in the wash that the person who got corrected didn't make the mistake but didn't say anything to the person chewing them out, the answer to the question of why he said nothing in his defence was "it was good advice." Be humble and no matter who corrects you, you will be thankful for the good advice.
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Nothing wrong with a polite "excuse me Sir/MSG/SGT/CPT/Whatever, your collar is jacked up/you [insert something here] is on crooked/etc/"
Be polite, be professional, and have a plan to kill everyone in the room...wait that is another quote. I guess that works here too!
Be polite, be professional, and have a plan to kill everyone in the room...wait that is another quote. I guess that works here too!
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
Marines have the best quotes. Well sometime other services have great quotes too. But those are usually about Marines!
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SSgt (Join to see)
I usually preface it w/ conversation. Â In general, I always scan the other person, just like when I was active. Â If I notice something, I will politely ask, "do you mind if I get your ____?" Â This is usually not met w/ any ill-temper.
I try to be a little more congenial about it now that I'm not active & may not be fully up-to-date on changes that occur.
I try to be a little more congenial about it now that I'm not active & may not be fully up-to-date on changes that occur.
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GySgt James Kesl
I think it is very appropriate, but once you are out of the military the approach needs to change. If I was on active duty still and my uniform was screwed up and I was unaware, I would appreciate a correction.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
I was at NMITC and one of the MSgts was walking around without nametapes. No one corrected him. He asked why later that day. Then said "If I'm jacked up, let me know"
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It is absolutely appropriate, as long as you are versed in the current regs. It's not about the "authority" to do so as pointed out in an earlier post. I've made corrections to officers when I was on active duty and I was only an E-4. If someone's ate up, it's your duty to let them know (but please do so tactfully).
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PV2 Daniel Shipley
I'm curious to hear his answer... It sounds like (to me, and possibly others reading this) that you have no respect for those who previously served. Veteran or retired...
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PO3 (Join to see)
MAJ Keith Benoit, sir, I'm going to assume that you're addressing PV2 Daniel Shipley here, regarding length of service, but I'm the one who thought some of the comments seemed to dismiss Veterans' service.
I really don't think it matters how long someone has served or even how well they might know the regs, because people make mistakes and that's why there are on the spot corrections.
Additionally, as I stated SOMEWHERE in this thread, lol, I keep abreast of updates and changes to regs so that I can assist SMs that have questions (I work as a Veterans Services Coordinator and deal with Vets, Active, Reserve, and NG all the time).
Unless a guy is blatantly doing something against regs (at which point they won't care about the correction anyway), I would figure that any SM might appreciate someone giving them a head's up about part of their uniform being jacked up...
I really don't think it matters how long someone has served or even how well they might know the regs, because people make mistakes and that's why there are on the spot corrections.
Additionally, as I stated SOMEWHERE in this thread, lol, I keep abreast of updates and changes to regs so that I can assist SMs that have questions (I work as a Veterans Services Coordinator and deal with Vets, Active, Reserve, and NG all the time).
Unless a guy is blatantly doing something against regs (at which point they won't care about the correction anyway), I would figure that any SM might appreciate someone giving them a head's up about part of their uniform being jacked up...
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I mentioned in the other thread.
I no longer have the authority, but that doesn't mean I can't advise.
If I saw a Marine with his EGAs facing the wrong way, or an upside down ribbon (like a CAR), I'd let him know.
I used to work on an Army base. Saw a guy who had missed a belt loop in the back in service uniform. Just approached and gave him a friendly heads up. He thanked me, and hit the head to correct.
I no longer have the authority, but that doesn't mean I can't advise.
If I saw a Marine with his EGAs facing the wrong way, or an upside down ribbon (like a CAR), I'd let him know.
I used to work on an Army base. Saw a guy who had missed a belt loop in the back in service uniform. Just approached and gave him a friendly heads up. He thanked me, and hit the head to correct.
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There should be no reason why a prior service member couldn't make the correction. Still serving, retired, medical out, whatever the reason, you take an oath, that makes you party of it all. If someone it's in violation of military standards, whoever it may be, whatever the rank, they should be corrected. I see it ask the time myself, and I make the correction that I see needs to be made. If your going to wear my/our uniform, you will wear it correctly!
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SSG (Join to see)
Oh and might I add, this is how missy of your stolen value cases are outed as well. Just saying.
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In my opinion it is more appropriate for us to police ourselves, in a courtious and professional manner. No self respecting Soldier, NCO and/or Officer should take offense to you (us) prior service members / retired Army correcting their uniform violation. If they don't like it, then shame on them. It bugs me to see uniform violations, I figure the least I could do is try to help the person out by telling them. I now work in Corrections, we wear a uniform, and the NCO in me screams out to correct uniform violations, some of these POSs don't get it.
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PV2 Daniel Shipley
I understand completely, and appreciate your point of view on this topic. Thank you 1SG David Lopez
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SFC (Join to see)
1SG David Lopez, " in a courtious and professional manner" This is the most important part.
By the way, great dog.
By the way, great dog.
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SPC (Join to see)
I to work in corrections and I also want to scream at people on their appearance (although the Im not an NCO).
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SFC Ron Portwood
When I was still on active duty it was a rare case you would see someone in a Wal-Mart or off post establishments in their BDU or ACU or what ever they are call now days. Back in my day you only could do this in an emergency. Now it is a common occurrence.
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I think a PSM should be able to make on the spot correction. As long as they are correct when making a correction. They need to be up on the regulation. ie. New hair and boot requirements.
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To me it doesn't matter what your status is. As long as you are current on the regs and make the correction in a respectful manner than it is a good thing. I feel that if you see the violation and fail to make the correction than you are pretty much walking around with that same violation. We all have rough days and sometimes can use a second set of eyes to make sure we look as good as we can. Heck, I still do it today when I have to get dressed for a formal meeting or something that requires me to put on a suit or my tux.
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Gross uniform infractions yes. Minor uniform infractions that may have changed, stand down.
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PV2 Daniel Shipley
Elaborate on "gross" sir. And, please be safe while on deployment in Afghanistan LTC (Join to see)
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LTC (Join to see)
"Gross" as in extremely wrong.
Not something is an 1/4" off or something of that nature.
Not something is an 1/4" off or something of that nature.
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CPL Rick Stasny
I agree with you MAJ Guy, if it were a cover indoors or a similar situation, I would be inclined to speak up. I would not put my 2 cents in on the proper wear of the new uniforms, because of all the changes since I was in.
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