Posted on Jan 14, 2015
Is it ok for veterans to use their old rank, if others address them by it?
18.3K
93
37
8
8
0
Good evening. I have a general etiquette question that caught me off guard earlier today.
I am separated from the Army. Not retired. So I can't be SGT So and So (ret.)
That is ok. So I still have to write the Army people from time to time. I wrote the education section regarding the college transfer of education benefits. I signed the message with my first name. The person helping me knew I was no longer with the Army. We have an email exchange. After she looks at my record and the addressing starts to be "SGT So and So".
At this point I am wondering if I should correct her, accept it, start signing "SGT So and So". I continued to sign with my first name. Friends, what are your thoughts? What do you do when people want to address you by a former rank?
I am separated from the Army. Not retired. So I can't be SGT So and So (ret.)
That is ok. So I still have to write the Army people from time to time. I wrote the education section regarding the college transfer of education benefits. I signed the message with my first name. The person helping me knew I was no longer with the Army. We have an email exchange. After she looks at my record and the addressing starts to be "SGT So and So".
At this point I am wondering if I should correct her, accept it, start signing "SGT So and So". I continued to sign with my first name. Friends, what are your thoughts? What do you do when people want to address you by a former rank?
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 20
20
20
0
I definitely agree with everyone who has posted on here. Once rank is earned it is yours. That being said I have a little story to tell.
After I retired in 2013 I went back to School full time. As I was meeting with my first adviser who was a PhD in English and Co dean of the Department of Education at the school. While sitting with her she was looking at my name and asked what I like to be called. I answer with the standard Rob, as it is my first name, but half jokingly i also chimed in, "You can call me Master Sergeant, or Sergeant if you like." She quickly chimed in "I am not calling you that." I honestly blew it off as a half joke. I turned around and asked her what she like to be called, "Professor? Mrs? First name? Dr?" Her immediate response was, " Dr. It is what I earned."
Now the irony of that statement hit me then, but honestly I just dropped it because I was quite new at the University and did not want to start conflict with my array of new professors, who some were younger then me including my adviser.
But; How was my title of Master Sergeant any different from her Dr.? What elevated hers above mine? I earned my title, and worn it with distinction till I retired in 2013. My achievement was documented like hers and was earned though countless hours of hard work, study, blood, sweat and tears.
The answer I have come up with is.. It is not different. Our titles we earn in the military are just as important as any title earned in the Civilian world. If you wish to use your title outside the military, a title you earned, then you have every right to. No one should tell you otherwise. And to this date, if I send any type of email correspondence to my professors. I do use the title block of Master Sergeant, USAF Retired. And I use it with pride.
After I retired in 2013 I went back to School full time. As I was meeting with my first adviser who was a PhD in English and Co dean of the Department of Education at the school. While sitting with her she was looking at my name and asked what I like to be called. I answer with the standard Rob, as it is my first name, but half jokingly i also chimed in, "You can call me Master Sergeant, or Sergeant if you like." She quickly chimed in "I am not calling you that." I honestly blew it off as a half joke. I turned around and asked her what she like to be called, "Professor? Mrs? First name? Dr?" Her immediate response was, " Dr. It is what I earned."
Now the irony of that statement hit me then, but honestly I just dropped it because I was quite new at the University and did not want to start conflict with my array of new professors, who some were younger then me including my adviser.
But; How was my title of Master Sergeant any different from her Dr.? What elevated hers above mine? I earned my title, and worn it with distinction till I retired in 2013. My achievement was documented like hers and was earned though countless hours of hard work, study, blood, sweat and tears.
The answer I have come up with is.. It is not different. Our titles we earn in the military are just as important as any title earned in the Civilian world. If you wish to use your title outside the military, a title you earned, then you have every right to. No one should tell you otherwise. And to this date, if I send any type of email correspondence to my professors. I do use the title block of Master Sergeant, USAF Retired. And I use it with pride.
(20)
(0)
1SG (Join to see)
Well said MSgt Robert Pellam ; With me being who I am, I would have had to call her out on her, "Dr. It is what I earned." And explained how I (WE) had earned mine and path, travels, deployments, conflicts, etc, I (we all) had to endure to "earn" ours..and oh by the way, some died along the way; some damn good ones too.
Hippocritical Educators do strike a nerve with me and I have a tendancy to let them know it in the past. Some suprisingly took it well and some acted as if I had hit the head with a brick! But once the verbal interaction had passed, their displayed attitude in my presense was much better, though in their minds and opinions, no change, and in fact they probably had a stronger negative personal opinion then before I confronted them. On one particular ocassion I was comforted more so by the comments from many in the class I was in who said Thank you and nicely done then verbal interaction with our PHD "Doctor" who didn't know what to perscribe for a headache and I said, "For some, just pulling your head out of ass would be a start!"
Personally, you'll get more respect from me for your MSgt rank (and anyother rank) ahead of that PHD or Doctor title. But that's just me!
Hippocritical Educators do strike a nerve with me and I have a tendancy to let them know it in the past. Some suprisingly took it well and some acted as if I had hit the head with a brick! But once the verbal interaction had passed, their displayed attitude in my presense was much better, though in their minds and opinions, no change, and in fact they probably had a stronger negative personal opinion then before I confronted them. On one particular ocassion I was comforted more so by the comments from many in the class I was in who said Thank you and nicely done then verbal interaction with our PHD "Doctor" who didn't know what to perscribe for a headache and I said, "For some, just pulling your head out of ass would be a start!"
Personally, you'll get more respect from me for your MSgt rank (and anyother rank) ahead of that PHD or Doctor title. But that's just me!
(5)
(0)
TSgt Joshua Copeland
I am pretty sure it took you just as long or longer to EARN MSgt as it did for her to EARN Dr.
(0)
(0)
Michael Morton
Pursuant to the authorities of Federal Statute, i.e., 10 U.S. Code § 772(e), all United States Military War Veterans who served "Honorably" (whether they are dead or alive) are not only entitled to wear their uniform when authorized (by the President), but, beyond that, they are entitled to bear the "Title Of Their Highest Rank" (Regulatory Authorization not required In Re: Title/Rank), whether they are dressed in uniform, or, not.
Further, a retired officer (commissioned or non-commissioned) of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps may bear the title and wear the uniform of his retired grade.
I have pasted a copy of that particular Federal Statute herein below:
***********************************************
10 U.S. Code § 772 - When wearing by persons not on active duty authorized
a)
A member of the Army National Guard or the Air National Guard may wear the uniform prescribed for the Army National Guard or the Air National Guard, as the case may be.
(b)
A member of the Naval Militia may wear the uniform prescribed for the Naval Militia.
(c)
A retired officer of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps may bear the title and wear the uniform of his retired grade.
(d)
A person who is discharged honorably or under honorable conditions from the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps may wear his uniform while going from the place of discharge to his home, within three months after his discharge.
(e)
A person not on active duty who served honorably in time of war in the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps may bear the title, and, when authorized by regulations prescribed by the President, wear the uniform, of the highest grade held by him during that war.
***********************************************
Further, a retired officer (commissioned or non-commissioned) of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps may bear the title and wear the uniform of his retired grade.
I have pasted a copy of that particular Federal Statute herein below:
***********************************************
10 U.S. Code § 772 - When wearing by persons not on active duty authorized
a)
A member of the Army National Guard or the Air National Guard may wear the uniform prescribed for the Army National Guard or the Air National Guard, as the case may be.
(b)
A member of the Naval Militia may wear the uniform prescribed for the Naval Militia.
(c)
A retired officer of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps may bear the title and wear the uniform of his retired grade.
(d)
A person who is discharged honorably or under honorable conditions from the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps may wear his uniform while going from the place of discharge to his home, within three months after his discharge.
(e)
A person not on active duty who served honorably in time of war in the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps may bear the title, and, when authorized by regulations prescribed by the President, wear the uniform, of the highest grade held by him during that war.
***********************************************
(0)
(0)
11
11
0
I think just letting it be is ok. I believe she is doing it out of respect. Becoming a SGT is an honor so calling you that is a respectful thing.
I would just move on and use your first and last name as a civilian would.
I would just move on and use your first and last name as a civilian would.
(11)
(0)
SMSgt Ottis West
I love being Ottis again however, when I am around my former peers or old troops they still refer to me by rank I smile respond in king and keep it moving. Definitely a show of respect spot on Maj.
(0)
(0)
8
8
0
Rank once earned should be yours forever. Only a Art15, court martial or rank determination board can take it away.
(8)
(0)
8
8
0
You are forever a SGT rather you decide to inform people is up to you. Many famous military continue under the title of the rank because they earned it. You are not actively serving but you are allowed to identify with your achievements.
People may also choose not to acknowledge your rank. As long as your honorable discharge says you left as a SGT, you are a SGT.
Congratulations SGT and thank you for voluteneering to serve and defend.
People may also choose not to acknowledge your rank. As long as your honorable discharge says you left as a SGT, you are a SGT.
Congratulations SGT and thank you for voluteneering to serve and defend.
(8)
(0)
LTC Stephen C.
MAJ (Join to see), I think that use of the title in an informal manner for a service member not retired is to what I think you refer. However, I'm fairly certain that only retirees from the service may use their titles in an official capacity. "All retired personnel not on active duty are permitted to use their military titles socially and in connection with commercial enterprises. Such military titles must never be used in any manner, which may bring discredit to the Army. The use of military titles is prohibited in connection with commercial enterprises when such use, with or without the intent to mislead, gives rise to any appearance of sponsorship or approval by the Department of the Army or the Department of Defense."
Not trying to split hairs with you, because I agree with your sentiments and observations except as noted above.
SGT Jonathan Williams
MCPO (Join to see), this also applies to the Navy and other services.
Not trying to split hairs with you, because I agree with your sentiments and observations except as noted above.
SGT Jonathan Williams
MCPO (Join to see), this also applies to the Navy and other services.
(3)
(0)
MAJ (Join to see)
LTC Stephen C. Good point, but the idea of retiring from the military is only a resent concept. There are numerous examples of non-retired individual who continued to be referred to by there military title. Bravet Major Grant during the Mexican American War, then was refered to as CPT Grant and continue to carry that title after he left the service. He did not stop using CPT Grant until he rejoined the military and was promoted during the civil war.
General MacArthur remain a General after he left but one may argue that he was forced to retire. People usually do not use their titles. I agree legal us of title is restricted when it comes to business. Major Winters was not a retired. You see you can refer to a term of service with a rank as a qualifier of experience.
General MacArthur remain a General after he left but one may argue that he was forced to retire. People usually do not use their titles. I agree legal us of title is restricted when it comes to business. Major Winters was not a retired. You see you can refer to a term of service with a rank as a qualifier of experience.
(2)
(0)
LTC Stephen C.
MAJ (Join to see) , don't get me wrong, I don't disagree with you. I too can think of military notables that weren't retired but always called by their rank. The public gets used to the rank and probably, the person can't go from one place to another without being called as such!
(3)
(0)
3
3
0
Many of my old line troops still call me SSG, or PSG or just Dad- which is fine with me. Other old friends call me Top, again ok, A few new friends (1 BG Ret, USA) call me SGM, again that's ok. Myself when I sign something-1. Line Name, 2. Line USA, Ret. I prefer not to wave my rank in peoples faces, I served, I was lucky, I survived and that's all that matters to me.
(3)
(0)
3
3
0
It seems to me that what DOD has to say about this topic is meaningless once you are no longer part of DOD. Here in the South anybody who wants to continue to introduce themselves by their last rank held can do so ... and anybody who wants to address them as such can do so. I'll also go so far as to say that addressing a Veteran by his highest held rank is damn near expected in some parts.
At least in Texas, there is no greater service to both Texas and the USA than serving in the military. Given that Veterans are held in such high regard, and there is no other way to distinguish themselves as Veterans, the use of one's rank is more than appropriated for those who wish to do so. There's regulations while you are on active duty/reserves ... but tradition takes over after that.
Last, why in the world does Rally Point call me Captain Webb if there's something wrong with it? In my heart of hearts I am still Captain Webb and have never been able to separate my self-identity from it. As someone already said, a rank earned is a rank owned, at least in title ... and I dare say that every honorably discharged Veteran deserves this title, retired or not.
At least in Texas, there is no greater service to both Texas and the USA than serving in the military. Given that Veterans are held in such high regard, and there is no other way to distinguish themselves as Veterans, the use of one's rank is more than appropriated for those who wish to do so. There's regulations while you are on active duty/reserves ... but tradition takes over after that.
Last, why in the world does Rally Point call me Captain Webb if there's something wrong with it? In my heart of hearts I am still Captain Webb and have never been able to separate my self-identity from it. As someone already said, a rank earned is a rank owned, at least in title ... and I dare say that every honorably discharged Veteran deserves this title, retired or not.
(3)
(0)
SSG Charlie Carlson
Very well said, CPT Webb. It is about time to have our veterans get more respect than they have gotten in the past. Usually, vets are treated like second class citizens but that is only how I feel and hope it is only my perception.
(1)
(0)
3
3
0
You could realize she is trying her best to respect you, or you could sign like this just for fun:
Jonathan Williams
Voter USA
Relaxing
You can also take a look here:
CITE-10 USC Sec. 772 01/03/2012 (112-90) TITLE 10 - ARMED FORCES Subtitle A - General Military Law PART II - PERSONNEL CHAPTER 45 - THE UNIFORM Sec. 772. When wearing by persons not on active duty authorized
(e) A person not on active duty who served honorably in time of war in the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps may bear the title, and, when authorized by regulations prescribed by the President, wear the uniform, of the highest grade held by him during that war. http://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title10/subtitleA/part2/chapter45&edition=prelim
Jonathan Williams
Voter USA
Relaxing
You can also take a look here:
CITE-10 USC Sec. 772 01/03/2012 (112-90) TITLE 10 - ARMED FORCES Subtitle A - General Military Law PART II - PERSONNEL CHAPTER 45 - THE UNIFORM Sec. 772. When wearing by persons not on active duty authorized
(e) A person not on active duty who served honorably in time of war in the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps may bear the title, and, when authorized by regulations prescribed by the President, wear the uniform, of the highest grade held by him during that war. http://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title10/subtitleA/part2/chapter45&edition=prelim
1992—Pub. L. 102–484, div. A, title III, §377(b), Oct. 23, 1992, 106 Stat. 2387, added item 775 and redesignated former item 775 as 776.
(3)
(0)
2
2
0
Great... I guess _I_ have to be the one.
I disagree with all of the previous posts. You are no longer a Sergeant - you aren't AD, you aren't a Reservist, and you aren't a Retiree... You are "MISTER" Williams. Your byline should read:
Jonathan Williams
Mr. Williams served XX years in the US Army, attaining the rank of Sergeant.
A very wise man once told me something about folks that get out of the service that I hold with me to this day, "Used to be's don't make no honey."
I'm a danged retired E-9, and the ONLY time I need to be called, "Master Chief" is when I'm playing HALO. Other than that, I'm a "Mister" or just a "Jerald" or "Jerry." On occasion, I have been called by other, less attractive names, but this is a family site... ;)
I disagree with all of the previous posts. You are no longer a Sergeant - you aren't AD, you aren't a Reservist, and you aren't a Retiree... You are "MISTER" Williams. Your byline should read:
Jonathan Williams
Mr. Williams served XX years in the US Army, attaining the rank of Sergeant.
A very wise man once told me something about folks that get out of the service that I hold with me to this day, "Used to be's don't make no honey."
I'm a danged retired E-9, and the ONLY time I need to be called, "Master Chief" is when I'm playing HALO. Other than that, I'm a "Mister" or just a "Jerald" or "Jerry." On occasion, I have been called by other, less attractive names, but this is a family site... ;)
(2)
(0)
SGT(P) Harry Clyde Jr.
Have to agree with you to an extent. Unless you put the dress uniform back on (if it still fits) for one of those very rare occasions such as military balls, etc. Theres no need. There was a point when I started in the civil service where my old boss who retired years before and was working in the same Batallion as me would address me as Sgt Clyde and Id do the same with him in person on the phone email etc. It took a bit to break the habit for both of us. It became Will and Harry after a month.
I also worked with infantry trainees who tended to call me Sgt even with the beard. Probably had to do with the Airborne School sweatshirt I wore with rank and name on it.
I dont like being called Sir though. Thats my father and my company commander where I work. Dont like Mister either. Both make it seem like im old which im not. Im like wine or whiskey, i get better with age and can still keep up with many of the younger guys/gals. Just call me Clyde or Harry or whatever you wish just not Sir, Mister or Sgt.
I also worked with infantry trainees who tended to call me Sgt even with the beard. Probably had to do with the Airborne School sweatshirt I wore with rank and name on it.
I dont like being called Sir though. Thats my father and my company commander where I work. Dont like Mister either. Both make it seem like im old which im not. Im like wine or whiskey, i get better with age and can still keep up with many of the younger guys/gals. Just call me Clyde or Harry or whatever you wish just not Sir, Mister or Sgt.
(1)
(0)
MCPO (Join to see)
Going from "Master Chief" and a full career of saying, "I"m not a Sir/Mister - there's a name listed under 'Father's Name' on my birth certificate and it doesn't say, 'Sixth Fleet'," to being called Sir/Mister every time I turn around has been a learning experience.
(0)
(0)
SSG Charlie Carlson
At veteran functions I am called SSG Carlson. I also hold a doctorate in both business and forensic anthropology and in an educational setting I use Dr. Carlson. I like my military title better. When you do more in a month than a retiree did in their entire 20 years you deserve that title. I served in two combat operations (the last operation I was in a combat zone for a year) and in a SFOR operation in Bosnia. I met a MSG who just retired and stated he never deployed and "lucked out" by not getting into any combat operation. He did go TDY to both Hawaii and Puerto Rico which he said was like a vacation. I feel I deserve to use my rank with my name now that I am a veteran more so than this pogue who retired. I think it is perfectly acceptable to use your rank as long as it does not bring discredit on the military or the US Government.
(2)
(0)
MAJ James Price
SGT(P) Harry Clyde Jr. Bingo. Up to you. Ask ppl to call you whatever you want them to. It's a respect thing.
(0)
(0)
1
1
0
If you got out as a SGT then you are and will always be SGT as far as I am concerned. I don't care what branch you are, if you earned the rank its yours until you get promoted.
If you want to be called (I know you didn't say that) SGT then you should be called SGT. It's like addressing someone you don't know or your future employer as SIR/MA'AM. It's being respectful. Calling you SGT is being respectful to you.
Hope That Helps
If you want to be called (I know you didn't say that) SGT then you should be called SGT. It's like addressing someone you don't know or your future employer as SIR/MA'AM. It's being respectful. Calling you SGT is being respectful to you.
Hope That Helps
(1)
(0)
1
1
0
Personally if it was someone I served with who just randomly walked up and addressed me by rank or last name I'd let it be, but a random stranger or someone from work, I'd wanna try and keep it on a first name basis, that's what's been happening for years for me and its pretty easy to go with.
(1)
(0)
Read This Next
Continue with Facebook 
Continue with Google