Posted on Feb 22, 2018
Is it realistic to believe that a teacher could effectively defend against an active shooter, using an AR-15, armed with only a handgun?
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After the shooting in Florida many people began to say arm the teachers. But they over look that a police officer was there. As a Marine I understand how difficult it is to close on and take an active shooter even with the best training and equipment. During the Dallas shooting 11 police officers was injured and another 6 was killed. Out of all the return fire none actually hit the suspect. Infact the suspect was killed by a remote control robot carrying an explosive. The reason why the suspect wasn't killed by a well aimed handgun shot is because of what we call the fog of war. When the shooting starts panic and confusion set in and the way we deal with it in the military is continually to train for those situations week in and week out. But without a third of the training people are expecting teachers to be able to identify the location of the shooter, know the movement of other armed teachers, know the movement of the innocent students and staff, close on the shooter and fire a well aimed shot without putting any students in further danger. Is that realistic?
Active Shooter
New Politics
Children
Posted 8 y ago
Responses: 489
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Unfortunately here in California this is all a mute point. Our illustrious Governor recently singed legislation making it illegal for anyone but law enforcement to carry a firearm on school grounds even if a school superintendent wants someone to.
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Everything you said id true Sir, but there is no panacea out there that will prevent another tragedy should a determined individual or group decide to attack again, however a comprehensive approach that includes "acceptable" school staff, including teachers, that want to carry is an appropriate start. Taking on a long rifle with a handgun isn't desirable in nearly any situation but is far better than not having a firearm at all. There are many former military and law enforcement members who teach as well as a few teachers with gun backgrounds that could carry if allowed. In close quarters like a classroom or hallway a pistol will at least give them a fighting chance.
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Properly Trained, I have witnessed a 98 pound young woman put a Special Forces Sergeant down, wailing and OUT! Yes, and a school full of trained teachers, especially MOMS could put up more fight than most of us men would want to encounter! Never forget the Mother's instinct to Protect. Us fellas, just dont have that!
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Darlene Holt
I don't know. That athletic director throwing his body between the fleeing students and the bullets had that protective instinct and it saved those kids.
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Darlene Holt
It’s not that simple. Two of the tree didn't have an active class at the time allowing them to try and run to the shooter, and one had a class which he was getting into his classroom but was still in the hall when the shooter got to his door giving him mere seconds to push his last student inside and close the door. Most teachers wouldn't have been on their conference period, so couldn’t just go into harm’s way as they had classes full of students they had to take care of. Their job would be at that point to get the students back into the classroom as quickly as possible and set up lock down procedures in the room (which is what one of the three killed was doing). Should the shooter attempt entry, that's when they'd jump into action as they are responsible for that class (and any other students they've managed to pull into their room). Only those on their conference, or possible if they had an aide who could take over classroom responsibility would have been free to actively engage the shooter. (Whether armed staff would change this is mute because it wasn’t in place in this case). Suggesting, intended or not, that only three were actively willing to put themselves in harm’s way is a disservice to those who were ready/willing but didn't have the opportunity. I don't know if you've ever been in a school during a security lockdown, so you may not be aware of how those work. I have been in them, including one that was not a drill. Fortunately it wasn't a shooting but it was a student bringing and pulling a gun on campus. I was subbing in the 6th grade hallway and the incident was upstairs in the 8th grade hallway. We didn't know exactly what was going on. We knew there was a real threat in the building scenario and we acted accordingly. That hall was cleared in less than 30-40 seconds and we sealed ourselves in with our students. I was mentally preparing active tactics for how to effectively fight back a potential shooter and protect my kids should one bust through that door. I was physically at the ready and had the students in the most secure/defensible spot I could hide them. All of this while ensuring procedures were followed for their safety and trying to keep them calm and quite. I know that every teacher in that building was doing the same. Every one of us would have put ourselves in harm’s way, but we couldn't just run out to do so because we had kids that we had to secure. I am certain it was much the same for those teachers at Parkland. They would have gone into harm’s way to save their kids, but first and foremost they had to get those kids out of the hallway and secure them inside their rooms.
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From what I understand the kid was not shooting at long ranges 2. There were supposedly 3-4 deputies on the scene that chose their safety over the lives of the innocents. 3 Any return fire since the kid chose to escape might have convinced him to flee, or at least engage the teacher shooting than more innocents.
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Probably a long shot. But, better than nothing. And, one well placed bullet would completely change the outcome.
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Seems to me it all depends on how the shooter goes about his shooting. At a distance, the shooter with a rifle might well have an advantage over the teacher with a pistol. Close in, the shooter is at a bit of a disadvantage with a rifle. Regardless, IMV in such a situation, something is one heck of a lot better than nothing. Chalkboard erasers aren't much of a weapon ... either in the offense or the defense ... though back in the day, teachers were known to use them effectively to awaken sleeping students.
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SSG Robert Webster
LTC (Join to see) Until the teachers started being accused of assault with a weapon.
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LTC (Join to see)
SSG Robert Webster - Yepper ... and the nuns with the rulers. Back then, students learned. Wonder if there is a correlation? ;)
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SSG Robert Webster
LTC (Join to see) - I am quite sure that their is one, but some people never learn from past experience.
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The key topic right now is, schools are soft targets for this psycho's to hit, they don't have to worry about someone returning fire. They have a large group in mass, don't have to be a good shot, just point in the general direction and pull the trigger, and they become famous in their minds. If some sort of armed response could be directed at them, the ones who really don't want to die might think differently. If the shooter has a death wish someone is going to have to take him down, teacher, administration or security. Right now we need to do something to improve the security of schools. Some of these schools are just wide open, and it may be hard to lock them down. If they decide to arm some people they need training first and foremost.
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