Posted on Sep 11, 2018
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I overheard a higher ranking NCO tell a lower enlisted soldier that he needed to take his Nike running shoes off and never let him catch him wearing Nike again. I’m curious as to whether or not he’s allowed to tell him that. I know as service members we really can’t involve ourselves in any political matter but isn’t this going too far? Just curious. Any thoughts?
Posted in these groups: NikeEthics logo EthicsProfessionalism logo ProfessionalismImages 20 NCOs
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SFC Retention Operations Nco
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The NCO is not only overstepping his bounds, but treading into unethical territory that could get him relieved. Discussing politics is perfectly OK. Forcing your politics onto a subordinate is the kind of behavior that gets senior leaders relieved.
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I completely agree SFC. As I was telling the SSgt that commented prior I can only assume that was the situation I didn’t hear the entire conversation but what I did catch did not seem right.
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SFC Retention Operations Nco
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It's always filtered through several layers when we hear about it. I've seen both happen. Times when a squad leader or PSG tells a Soldier to come in to do some work or layout, and times when a commander has revoked someone off of leave.
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SSgt Dan Montague
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The NCO cannot do that unless the shoes were out of regulations. His opinion of the Nike protest is just that, their opinion.
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Roger. I agree. I felt like shit for not saying anything but I didn’t know what the entire situation was nor what the shoes looked like. I could be assuming this had to do with the protest. I had a similar situation like this happen to me but I stood up for myself and told them that I wasn’t violating any regulation and not to force his political opinions on me. He was pissed but what can he say or do?
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SSG Public Affairs Broadcast Journalist
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It's only opinion for as long as they're not abusing their authority by exercising influence in an inappropriate manner.
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MSG Intermediate Care Technician
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I'd be asking that NCO why he's telling that Soldier that. He is crossing lines he shouldn't be crossing. It's a shoe.
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SGM Sergeant Major
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I agree. If the shoes are not out of regulation, the Soldier has all rights to wear them. Look at the number of Soldiers that wear Nike shoes all the time. As a NCO, we are here to enforce the standards not our personal opinions. This NCO needs to spend time reading our Creed, and make sure he or she is following it. A lower enlisted Soldier doesn't lose his or her rights, because he or she becomes a Soldier. What I wonder is how many other things has this NCO been forcing Soldiers to do that follows his way of thinking. Total abuse of his position and bringing shame to the NCO Corps.
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Is somebody higher up in your chain of command allowed to tell you what you should support or not support?
Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
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Investigate and clarify. "Hey Sgt, I heard you talking to Benotz about his running shoes. Is there a new Order out? I own a pair and I don't want to be in violation." Then you can hear exactly what was said. It might be "Those go-fasters are worn down to the threads. He's gonna kill himself." or "Forking politics, blah blah blah." At that point you can take action as necessary.

Keep in mind you might have missed a single word and that changes the entire context of the conversation, like "take those Nikes off and never let me catch you wearing THOSE Nikes again" (as in that specific pair. they're out of regs, they're worn out... etc)

The other thing is he might not have realized what he was doing. And the simple act of repeating his statement may make him go "$^&$^%, I can't do that. Sgt Ramos. Do me a favor. Tell Benotz I said to disregard about the shoes. I was operating on bumscoop."

We're human, and sometimes we just fork things up. We have to watch each others back and that includes TACTFULLY reminding our seniors their might be conflicts with their orders/directives.
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I respect that battle thank you. I’ll definitely bear that in mind for future reference in case I come across a sittuation like this again
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I’m not sure how you refer to other fellow marines but in the Army that’s what we call our brothers and sisters in the same rank as us or same position. Just to clear that up.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
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SSG (Join to see) - I'm familiar with it!
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CMSgt Randy Beck
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There are pieces of the story that are missing as stated below, we do not know what type of Nike shoes he was wearing. In today's culture there are so many wild and bright colors available that you are hard pressed to find what I would call old school plain tennis shoes. Being retired, it is hard to keep up on the dress and appearance codes for all the branches, but I know hair styles are being relaxed for females and certain wear of jewelry is now authorized that previously was not. I'm kind of taking this conversation down another road but without the entire story, hard to give the right answer to you. I would argue though that what Kaepernick started was not political, it had to do with what he thought was ethics. It is the rest of us who have made it political. I in no way condone what he started as that was not the right venue to start protesting. Again, another topic for another post.
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MAJ Samuel Weber
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Wrong action by that Senior NCO. Also, it’s not lower Enlisted, it’s Junior Enlisted. The term lower has a negative connotation. I’d advise that Soldier to speak with his supervisor.
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Roger that sir. And thank you for the correction.
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SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth
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Never had anyone higher up tell me who or what to support, if they did, I didn't listen.
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Good point. I agree with you.
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SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth
SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth
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SSG (Join to see) the only person now that's high up is my wife and grandson, listen now and then.
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SrA John Monette
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sounds like the senior NCO already has issues. might be trying to exert his authority over an issue he should absolutely not be addressing. what a service member chooses to wear off duty is nobody's business but his own.
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The soldier was in PT uniform. But still there’s no was no regulation violation.
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SrA John Monette
SrA John Monette
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unless they start issuing PT footwear, the NCO needs to back off. different brands and styles of shoes fit people differently. I'm sure the NCO would rather his troop wear something that is comfortable and fits well than wear something the opposite just because the NCO likes it better.
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SGT David T.
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Stuff like this is why I ETSed. The job is hard enough as it is without morons in leadership positions. When you encounter one like this, the situation is worse. Maybe if these so called leaders would stop wasting Soldiers' time with stupidity, they might have better retention.
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Amen brother! I couldn’t agree more. It’s like as time passes the climate gets worse.
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SGT David T.
SGT David T.
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SSG (Join to see) - Someone asked me the other day if I regretted getting out knowing that I would have retired last January had I stayed in. I told them not for a second. Getting out was probably the best career move I could have made. It's so nice not babysitting or being treated like a child. My boss expects me to come to work and do my job. Unless there is a problem, he pretty much leaves me alone lol.
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SGT David T. Lol nice. Enjoy your freedom brother. You earned it. Thank you for your service.
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TSgt Carl Johnson
TSgt Carl Johnson
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Airman Towsley, I understand how you feel. I separated for almost twelve years because of people like this. However, I did finish my career in the Air National Guard (thirteen years, seven on active duty orders), and it was worth it. The memories and lifelong friends that I have, the feeling of accomplishment, along with that monthly retirement check, make it all totally worth it.
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SSG Public Affairs Broadcast Journalist
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This isn't a political matter (in and of itself), it sounds like bullying by blind "patriotism" taken too far. See AR600-20 para 4-19.
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I appreciate that SSG.
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