Posted on Aug 24, 2014
Is the confederate flag considered offensive by the majority of America?
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Im doing this pole in reference to another question since it can't be added to it after the fact. No response is necessary if you don't want to, just trying to take the survey. If you'd like to comment you can go to this thread as well. https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/displaying-the-confederate-flag-on-your-pov-or-person-while-on-a-military-installation
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Posted >1 y ago
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Symbols, signs, and icons can mean one thing at their inception and that meaning can change over time. Example the two finger "peace" sign of the 60's and 70's was a "V or victory" sign during WW II. Their are also hand gestures that mean one thing in one country, and an entirely different thing in a different country. I try to keep that in mind.
So... know your audience, (and in today's world if their is a cell phone around your audience is the world.) Don't piss off people you didn't intend to offend, and you won't spend a bunch of time apologizing for offense you did not intend to offer.
So... know your audience, (and in today's world if their is a cell phone around your audience is the world.) Don't piss off people you didn't intend to offend, and you won't spend a bunch of time apologizing for offense you did not intend to offer.
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Maj John Bell
SGT Michael Hudgens - You've done summed me up quite nicely, but you are completely incorrect.
It isn't a matter of capitulation. If someone asks me my opinion, I'm going to give it, no matter how much it offends. But I am situationally aware. In certain parts of Italy, the hand symbol we Americans use for "OK" is a way to tell someone they are an asshole. When in Italy, or around Italians from Italy, I don't flash them the "OK" hand sign. I don't do it because I don't want them to think I'm telling them they are an asshole. If I think they are an asshole, I just tell them.
If some variant of the Confederate Flag makes someone feel that I'm communicating some sort of racial animosity, I don't display a Confederate Flag, because when I dislike someone, it isn't because of their race, ethnicity, religion, etc.
It has nothing to do with allowing someone else to define who I am or what I believe. I consider gentlemanly conduct, along the same lines that if I need to spit while I'm in your house, I'll excuse myself and spit in your toilet or the sink, instead of on the floor or the wall. It isn't capitulation. I still need to spit, but I'll spit in a way that does the least offense.
The first Amendment absolutely guarantees our right to say things that may offend. I just prefer to offend with focus, intent, and purpose. And even if someone's speech is offensive to me personally, I'll defend their right to offend me.
It isn't a matter of capitulation. If someone asks me my opinion, I'm going to give it, no matter how much it offends. But I am situationally aware. In certain parts of Italy, the hand symbol we Americans use for "OK" is a way to tell someone they are an asshole. When in Italy, or around Italians from Italy, I don't flash them the "OK" hand sign. I don't do it because I don't want them to think I'm telling them they are an asshole. If I think they are an asshole, I just tell them.
If some variant of the Confederate Flag makes someone feel that I'm communicating some sort of racial animosity, I don't display a Confederate Flag, because when I dislike someone, it isn't because of their race, ethnicity, religion, etc.
It has nothing to do with allowing someone else to define who I am or what I believe. I consider gentlemanly conduct, along the same lines that if I need to spit while I'm in your house, I'll excuse myself and spit in your toilet or the sink, instead of on the floor or the wall. It isn't capitulation. I still need to spit, but I'll spit in a way that does the least offense.
The first Amendment absolutely guarantees our right to say things that may offend. I just prefer to offend with focus, intent, and purpose. And even if someone's speech is offensive to me personally, I'll defend their right to offend me.
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There are several Confederate flags. Regardless of which is displayed, this is what those flags represent according to the words of the Vice President of the Confederate StatesOf America:
In what’s now known as the “Cornerstone Speech,” Stephens told a Savannah, Ga., crowd in 1861 that “our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas [as those of slavery foes]; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.”
He went further: the battle over slavery “was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution.”
It’s my opinion Confederate flags should only be displayed in museums and pictured in history books. They deserve no place of honor and should be considered symbols of hate. Alexander Stephens made it abundantly clear the Confederacy was established to support white supremacy and the subjugation of people of color. The same sentiments are expressed in the Articles if Secession of many of the Confederate States.
In what’s now known as the “Cornerstone Speech,” Stephens told a Savannah, Ga., crowd in 1861 that “our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas [as those of slavery foes]; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.”
He went further: the battle over slavery “was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution.”
It’s my opinion Confederate flags should only be displayed in museums and pictured in history books. They deserve no place of honor and should be considered symbols of hate. Alexander Stephens made it abundantly clear the Confederacy was established to support white supremacy and the subjugation of people of color. The same sentiments are expressed in the Articles if Secession of many of the Confederate States.
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SFC Herve Abrams
SGT Michael Hudgens, so all you posted to counter the factual information I posted is a picture of yourself wearing a symbol of white supremacy and some lame insults. Why am I not surprised?
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SFC Herve Abrams
SGT Michael Hudgens, you keep making this issue about me. It’s not. Again, the Vice President of the Confederate States clearly explained the Confederacy was created to promote white supremacy. That is a fact. That means THEY (confederate leaders) played the race card. I can’t play the race card because I’m an old white guy. Is that simple enough for you to understand?
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SFC Herve Abrams
SGT Michael Hudgens, again, I didn’t write the Cornerstone Speech, Confederate Vice President Alexander Stephens did.
Too bad you can’t handle American History.
Feel free to resort to elementary level name calling as you hide from the truth.
https://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/document/cornerstone-speech/
Too bad you can’t handle American History.
Feel free to resort to elementary level name calling as you hide from the truth.
https://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/document/cornerstone-speech/
"Cornerstone" Speech - Teaching American History
Henry Cleveland, Alexander H. Stephens, in Public and Private: With Letters and Speeches, Before, During, and Since the War (Philadelphia, 1886), pp. 717-729.. . . I was remarking that we are passing through one of the greatest revolutions in the annals of the world. Seven States have within the last three months thrown off an old government and formed a new. This revolution has been signally marked, up to this time, by the fact of its having...
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SFC Herve Abrams
SGT Michael Hudgens, how old are you? How can you not know about the Cornerstone Speech? It’s been part of history since before I was born, so I know it’s you must have heard of it before. Are you really that clueless?
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Depends in where you were raised!!! I was born and raised in Mississippi. After my military career all over the U S and overseas, retired now in Texas. I have ancestors who fought in both sides. I have pride of my heritage and culture. I will always stand up for Dixie.
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Way is it those who are offended by the Confederate Battle flag are also offended by the American flag and if anyone notice their flag of choice is the old Hammer and Sickle communist flag
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Wether or not to display the confederate flag on or off post is a personal preference and people should just get over themselves and quit being offended by everything. I have the confederate flag with an eagle head on my left firearm. That doesn't mean I'm racist or anything else. To me, the confederate battle flag means freedom. You see I have actually researched this stuff. The civil war was fought over freedom from the tyranny of the federal government. In Lincoln's letters, there is a letter to one of his advisors asking for ideas to recruit soldiers because the union was in trouble because most of the men at the time agreed with the south. The advisor wrote back and told Lincoln to make the war about slavery and he would be able to recruit soldiers. So Lincoln began a campaign to make people believe the war was about slavery. And, I don't care if you are offended, that's your problem, not mine.
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Something that polls 53-47 is obviously controversial but no so offensive as to require any restrictions on the symbol. Add it to hostile CONDUCT and the decision to restrict may change.
I am not a Southerner but I have been stationed in the South enough to understand all the GOOD things that the Stars and Bars symbolize. Like most symbols (i.e., American flag flew over our "Relocation Camps" for Japanese while others stole their left behind property) the message is not 100% wonderful. Recognize that and allow Southerners to retain the best of their heritage. If has been 150 years you know.
I am not a Southerner but I have been stationed in the South enough to understand all the GOOD things that the Stars and Bars symbolize. Like most symbols (i.e., American flag flew over our "Relocation Camps" for Japanese while others stole their left behind property) the message is not 100% wonderful. Recognize that and allow Southerners to retain the best of their heritage. If has been 150 years you know.
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The press made a big deal out of the Confederate Flag a few months ago forcing some local and state governments to remove or alter memorials to Confederate Soldiers and the Confederacy. Up until that time, I think most people viewed the Confederate flag as a piece of American history. It's display by some racist organizations or individuals made it a symbol for those causes in the press.
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I personally don't find the flag offensive. What I find offensive is people the use it to rally people for hatred, intolerance and exclusion.
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SSG Robert Burns, I think so... but is appears CNN reports otherwise.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/02/politics/confederate-flag-poll-racism-southern-pride/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/02/politics/confederate-flag-poll-racism-southern-pride/index.html
Poll: Majority sees Confederate flag as Southern pride - CNNPolitics.com
Public opinion on the Confederate flag remains about where it was 15 years ago, with most describing the flag as a symbol of Southern pride.
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