Posted on Mar 4, 2016
Is there a disconnect between the Korean & Vietnam Veterans & the Gulf/OIF/OEF Veterans?
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RP Members is there a true disconnect? If so, how do we bridge the gap between these two disctinct generations of veterans?
This was brought up in a conversation I had with CPT Jack Durish the other day and I would like to get some opinions from both generations on whether you feel there is a disconnect and some ideas on how we can bridge that gap?
Looking for some positive ideas!
This was brought up in a conversation I had with CPT Jack Durish the other day and I would like to get some opinions from both generations on whether you feel there is a disconnect and some ideas on how we can bridge that gap?
Looking for some positive ideas!
Edited >1 y ago
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 121
To me it is a disconnect of our own creation. Comparing which wars were worse is pure BS. Comparing casualty rates, how many enemy there were, famous battles, etc is stupid. Better technology has allowed us to decrease casualties, not the severity of the war. Let's just respect each other for what we did, we served.
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There definitely is a gap and part of that gap is just the way they were treated on their return home. Some get treated as heroes and others get treated as baby killing monsters. We see it even today as the general public has become disillusioned with almost 2 decades of armed conflict, we've got plenty of examples of the public turning on us. This tends to make some people bitter about their military service while others retain their fond memories.
The best way to bridge the gap is through resources like RallyPoint where we can open up a friendly dialogue with each other. I'm a relatively new blood Marine, but being connected to other veterans on RallyPoint gives me perspectives from the other generations and other services.
The best way to bridge the gap is through resources like RallyPoint where we can open up a friendly dialogue with each other. I'm a relatively new blood Marine, but being connected to other veterans on RallyPoint gives me perspectives from the other generations and other services.
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SPC Woody Bullard
CPL Goolsby, excellent comment on using RallyPoint to reach out to different
generations of veterans.
generations of veterans.
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I don't think I have the Magic Bullet for that. Sure it is very similar to the Disconnect between the Korean War Vets and the Vietnam Vets at the end of the Vietnam War. Different Perspectives from a Different Time, Age Differences subtle but significant. In this day of Information and the leaps and bounds we have made there is a vast chasm between me, a Cold War, Prairie Fire/El Dorado Canyon, Desert Storm & Desert Strike Veteran and OEF Veterans. We Use Different Tools, We talk different technical languages, Just thinking of the Tools we use, I use a Lap Top for most everything, My Son in Law an OEF Veteran uses his I-Phone for about the same purpose. I watch You Tube Video's he has made with his Drone flying out of the Front Yard. He even repairs and does the wiring in the damn things, I'm a retired Cryptologic Technician and I'm bloody clueless about the newest technology, I used to be working with the movers and shakers in the Technology Community.
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PO1 William "Chip" Nagel
"I remember way back when during the Great War" Damn It! That is me Now. Just let Grandpa have his Bourbon and watch and be amazed by my Grandchildren. Hopefully they won't talk me into too many of their Daredevil Activities.
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SPC (Join to see)
This is not an excuse for how Vietnam vets feel, and I think we need to change and embrace things like supporting the VFW's. Regardless there's still a lot of hard feelings caused from how disgracefuly we were treated by our fellow citizens (mostly democrats) when demanded to go fight and die for our country. Many of our young soldiers today have no idea what happened. Probably not their fault given how the public education systems have been hijacked by the left the same old Dem's that have never offered any type of apology for their disgraceful actions during the Vietnam War. Ya, I still gave some hard feeling. Fortunately I'm encouraged by some of the actions from our new CIC.
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PO1 William "Chip" Nagel
SPC (Join to see) - You'll have to Excuse this "Intellectual Elite" Retired "Military Intelligence" Professional and "Democrat" Who has done More for Veterans, Besides Putting Magnets on their Cars? "Democrats" I have nothing but Contempt for Most Republicans and so called "Libertarians". 21 Years as Spook working in the "Information Warfare" Community, I also have nothing but Contempt for FOX, Breitbart, Townhall. Nothing But Nazi Reich Wing Propaganda in My Book. I Support Veterans, I'm Smart which Means I Support Democrats. "Perspective is Everything" I was a Dirty Tricks Man During the Reagan Administration (Your Perception of Reality and Mine are Probably Significantly Different).
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COL Mikel J. Burroughs Somewhere I heard the saying, "Every generation has it's war". The Vietnam generation has a difference in experience, in that the public treated them differently than the Gulf War, OIF, OEF.. soldiers were/are treated upon return. This created a bitterness in the Vietnam era veterans. They did not come home to warm welcomes, parades, and the like, they were largely put down and made to feel ashamed or of their service. They gave just as much in their service as the later veterans but instead of being honored for it they were punished for it. That's a tough pill to swallow. I think the difference in how they were treated upon their return has led to the divide. I think recognizing the cause for the divide is a step to finding a way to bridge the gap and create healing.
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PV2 Glen Lewis
My only possible contact with a Korean War vet was my 1st step-father and I never got to talk to him about it. He shot himself soon after returning. The Vietnam vets I know are not inclined to share their feelings on this or their war experiences. I do know that you didn't have to be deploy to experiences of the country's sentiment toward the men who did. I was in AIT and went to Augusta on a weekend pass and was egged by a bunch of "hippies" shouting the popular terms for servicemen they'd come up with. I don't think my generation was treated with the same as the Korean War vets. On the point of losing those wars someone above pointed out that the military didn't lose them; the politicians did. My opinion on that point is that the politicians always have the say, both in the beginning and the end. On the disconnect between the Gulf era vets and the Korea/Vietnam vets I think most definitely so due to who's shoulder the responsibility lies on and I think the nation puts it squarely where it belongs; on the politicians.
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PO2 David Allender
SGT Jerrold Pesz - I am a Nam Combat vet. I have found to many Nam vets say to me "GOD will never forgive me for what I have done." I have never heard a vet from any other war say that. Could that be the difference? I know that somebody out there has heard as much.
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PV2 Glen Lewis
I've heard this myself but I've yet to hear anyone expand upon it. I have several friends and relatives who were deployed to Vietnam and they all seem to hold to this sentiment. I don't push them on it; it is clearly something they don't care to share or have known, I guess.
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I remember being at a lounge with my mom and dad, I was in uniform and had a date. I was basking in the attention I was getting. I was approached by this man who rather disgustly said," I'm not a Desert Storm Hero, I'm just a Veitnam Vet." His anger seemed to be directed at me. It was embarrassing. I ordered him a drink and talked o him. I vetted him also. I was trained by Veitnam Vets. I knew the stories and I knew the units. I studied the war on my own. I told the Nam vet that it wasn't my fault I was born later in his life, that this was my war, and Vietnam was his. I was a kid during that time. Had I been of age, I said I would have had my "ass in the grass" with him. I told him I didn't feel like a Hero. I just did my job. We ended on a good note. That statement still haunts me today. I can say I was never I a position that some of the Vietnam Vets were in. I returned to my unit and was transferred to another. ( they didn't want the vets together outside of the war) I walked into a supply office and there was this S/Sgt with his feet up on the desk drinking coffee and he said, " oh I see you have your Spades Playing patch on" referring to my combat patch. This S/Sgt didn't go to Desert Storm, he stayed back. Needless to say, it took every ounce of discipline not to come over the desk and beat the shit out of him. I got jealously and disrespect from those who didn't go, I had one Sgt say all his unit did was send all the fuck ups over to Desrt Storm and Shield. I replied that the fuck ups did a hell of a job then. I was so glad to get out of that unit. I don't speak about the war, other than the few crazy and fun things we did during the long stretches of absolute sheer boredom. Just know this. Had I been of age for WW 2, Korea, Vietnam, or our last one ( I was to old) I would have been there. I work with new combat vets, and I'm the Old Man that they seek out when they want to talk. We have all suffered both in combat, jealous REMFs , media (some worse than others) and PTSD. We need not fight amongst ourselves. We need to support each other. Help each other. It's our Code. It's our Brotherhood. It's our Duty. We have to remember we are United States Veterans, to which we have not been relieved of that duty.
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Cpl Jeff Ruffing
Me also SPC. I had such a tremendous feeling of guilt that the "WAR" I had wasn't no where close to all the stories I heard and what I imagined war to be. However, I'm grateful that we only had 18 KIAs in that ground war. I wear my combat status with pride, and no guilt anymore.
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People like to slice and dice history to fit whichever story they want told. So leave the wars and conflicts themselves to military historians. To bridge the gap between WW2 and Afhanistan vets you have to concentrate on the servicemen and women who have more in common than what separates them. There seems to be ROE when dealing with each generation. WW2... just talk heroics. Korea...damn shame everyone forgot about it... Viet Nam...you guys were screwed over... Desert Storm..why didn't you guys finish the job?....Iraq... where's the WMD?...Afghanistan...how many deployments?... Who the hell cares but us and our families?.. That common denomonator... US.
We all went to bootcamp or OCS. We all joined for personal reasons. We all pushed aside fear and did that first confidence course. We all fired on the range. We all made racks and learned to dress ourselves without Irish pennants and looked damn fine for inspections. We all griped about the food, the liberty, the guard duty, Officer of the Day, ramp ups to deployments, pack up just to stand down, hurry up and wait, family seps, missing Christmas, missing a funeral, missing a graduation, missing a family, anxiousness for promotion lists, practicing for boards, watching CNN for news before Intel briefs us, broken parts, high tech gear built by lowest bidders, travel, lack of sleep... on and on... There's more that binds us than separates us. I can talk to a WW2 vet with the same ease I can a newbie Guard member. We all can.
We all went to bootcamp or OCS. We all joined for personal reasons. We all pushed aside fear and did that first confidence course. We all fired on the range. We all made racks and learned to dress ourselves without Irish pennants and looked damn fine for inspections. We all griped about the food, the liberty, the guard duty, Officer of the Day, ramp ups to deployments, pack up just to stand down, hurry up and wait, family seps, missing Christmas, missing a funeral, missing a graduation, missing a family, anxiousness for promotion lists, practicing for boards, watching CNN for news before Intel briefs us, broken parts, high tech gear built by lowest bidders, travel, lack of sleep... on and on... There's more that binds us than separates us. I can talk to a WW2 vet with the same ease I can a newbie Guard member. We all can.
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COL Mikel J. Burroughs I suspect there is a separation of interests and familiarity with modern technology between Korean & Vietnam Veterans and the Gulf/OIF/OEF Veterans. Because of triage capabilities and advanced battlefield medical capabilities soldiers and marines and special operators are able to survive and function with wounds and a loss of limbs that nobody survived in earlier wars. The military was slow to develop 24/7 capabilities to get these more recent amputees; but, once they engaged the capabilities and support networks are head and shoulders above what existed before this century [I was recovering from mitral valve repair surgery in March 2003 when OIF amputees were flowing in to Walter Reed Army Medical center.]
The VFW and American Legion war veterans grew up and fought in the eras before 24 hour TV, 3 dimensional video games and touch screen everything. The Gulf War veterans seem to be the bridge between the earlier veterans and those who followed in the wars of this century. Many OEF and OIF veterans are much younger and have young families and are much more tech-savvy. A potential bridge is that the Korean & Vietnam Veterans are grandparents and great grandparents of some of the OEF and OIF veterans. I expect that SFC Josh Billingsley is correct that the VSO like American Legion, DAV and VFW are updating their recruiting tactics and are trying to be relevant to the Veterans who have fought in the most recent warfare.
The VFW and American Legion war veterans grew up and fought in the eras before 24 hour TV, 3 dimensional video games and touch screen everything. The Gulf War veterans seem to be the bridge between the earlier veterans and those who followed in the wars of this century. Many OEF and OIF veterans are much younger and have young families and are much more tech-savvy. A potential bridge is that the Korean & Vietnam Veterans are grandparents and great grandparents of some of the OEF and OIF veterans. I expect that SFC Josh Billingsley is correct that the VSO like American Legion, DAV and VFW are updating their recruiting tactics and are trying to be relevant to the Veterans who have fought in the most recent warfare.
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COL Mikel J. Burroughs
LTC Stephen F. You bring up a totally different perspective than others have on this discussion - very nice insight with both medical capabilities and the advent of TV and reporters (that was mentioned by others). Thanks for your perspective and thoughtful response!
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There has always been somewhat of a disconnect between different generations of vets. I saw that immediately when I first joined the American Legion in 1968. We had people from WWII, Korea, Vietnam and a few of the smaller conflicts and while we got along and worked well together on things like service projects each group tended to hang out with those closest to their own age.
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COL Mikel J. Burroughs
SGT Jerrold Pesz Thanks for sharing - do you have any recommendations on how we can solve that and bring them closer together or is that an impossible task!
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Rather than us vets worrying about what kind of a war each of us engaged in, the more important thing, for me, is the relationship between brothers who have fought and served. As an RVN vet, in civilian life many years later, I was flying out on business and nearby my plane was a group of guys returning from the Gulf War. I went over and struck up a conversation, thanking them for their service and that they made it back. The kid asked whether I was a vet and upon hearing I was in VN, he proceeded to give me a button he had cut off an enemy officers uniform. This is as precious to me as any medal/ribbon I got when on duty. We're all brothers.
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I was in Vietnam from 19 June 1969 - 16 June 1970. I have met several OEF and OIF veterans and it seems as though they really don't give a rats ass about what we did. What we did was kick some ass without any special computer guided munitions and we did the majority of it in the day because it was really dark at night and we could not see. We as a group created the Vet Centers and special attention to PTSD and TBI. They don't seem to know that or they just don't give a shit. I'm not saying that they should spit shine our boots but it would be nice once in a while to be thanked.
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SPC Woody Bullard
I'm not a Vietnam veteran but you and your brothers in arms have 100% of my respect and I will say thank you for your service. When you were in Vietnam I was stationed at a NATO nuclear weapons site in West Germany. Same years but different worlds.
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SFC Frank DeJulius
Your post exemplifies the disconnect, which in my opinion is generational. I'm a VN Vet and retired SFC living near an Army Post and have neighbors who are active duty and have had multiple deployments. We often talk about the differences in our "wars", but I will say they do show me that special respect we give to our brothers-in-arms and I do my utmost to reciprocate.
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1SG (Join to see)
I serve in the Army for service members who served in past wars. My Great Grandfather, Grandfather, and Father all served in the Army and fought in almost every major war and I now serve Active for the past 13 years and respect what all Veterans have done for our Nation 100%. I honor their sacrifice as I honor the sacrifice of my own family members. Any Service members who show no appreciation for any other service member in my books probable did not see the rigors of war.
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