Posted on Jun 26, 2019
Is there such thing as going to parade rest while in the seated position?
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A SGT gave a PFC a counseling for not going to parade rest while seated. I would understand if he expected her to stand and then go to parade rest but from how he worded the counseling, he legitimately wanted her to stay seated with her hands at parade rest. This was a while back and I'm not even in anymore, I just want to see what you all think about this and if you feel like this was a waste of time/paperwork or justified.
Posted 6 y ago
Responses: 9
No, the position of parade rest is a rest position from the halt with the starting position being attention. So you can't be seated at the position of parade rest.
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SGT James LeFebvre
I had to read it a couple times to make sure i read it right. I'm trying to imagine what that would even look like.
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CSM Richard StCyr
SGT James LeFebvre - I sometimes have to wonder if folks are making these scenarios up or if things have really backslid this badly.
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SGT James LeFebvre
I saw some of it when I did time as an instructor. Unfortunately, while I don't think it's generally that bad, the wussification of the military has definitely had an effect.
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That's as F'd up as a soup sandwich. WTF is that NCO thinking? Whatever corrective action s/he was hoping to achieve just got flushed down the crapper with that display of stupid.
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WTF! I have never heard of such a drill command! There may be more to this other than what I know other than FM22-5, the reg in my day. However, if the PFC was doing something un-military in manner, the counseling was justified. A good example would be moving around, looking behind, sleeping, slumping or doing something that indicated disrespect of the situation. Maybe there is now a command to sit at parade rest or at least a directive to sit still and look forward until told to pay attention.
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Maj John Bell
PFC Celeste Quesada - Things don't square up here.
1) How does one continue to look for an NSN while at "parade rest" seated or not?
2) A Doctor that could not print out a profile, could just as easily hand write a chit, or make a phone call. At the apprpriate level of command, I'd be looking for a piece of his ass if he didn't think his way out of that small a problem.
3) If someone's 2 week profile became a 3 month profile, somebody (PltLdr, PltSgt, Co 1stSgt, CoXO or Co CO. should be demanding answers. If I was the Battalion Commander and no one had a good explanation I'd fire them all if they hadn't. As far as a Sgt that orders a PFC with a profile to do pull-ups, he's going to Battalion level NJP, ata minimum.
1) How does one continue to look for an NSN while at "parade rest" seated or not?
2) A Doctor that could not print out a profile, could just as easily hand write a chit, or make a phone call. At the apprpriate level of command, I'd be looking for a piece of his ass if he didn't think his way out of that small a problem.
3) If someone's 2 week profile became a 3 month profile, somebody (PltLdr, PltSgt, Co 1stSgt, CoXO or Co CO. should be demanding answers. If I was the Battalion Commander and no one had a good explanation I'd fire them all if they hadn't. As far as a Sgt that orders a PFC with a profile to do pull-ups, he's going to Battalion level NJP, ata minimum.
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PFC Celeste Quesada
Maj John Bell Addressing the first point, yeah that's what most of us said too, it seemed counter productive.
As for the second point, she did ask for it but since it was documented on the actual form for a longer term profile, the doctor wouldn't write it down for her. The doctors don't print out our profiles for us (they said they aren't allowed to but IDK) and they only give written profiles for 1 week or less profiles or quarters.
For the last point, our platoon Sgt got involved and 1SGT started a record of everyone on profile in the company to prevent incidents like this from happening again. He also changed how people sign out for sick call.
As for the second point, she did ask for it but since it was documented on the actual form for a longer term profile, the doctor wouldn't write it down for her. The doctors don't print out our profiles for us (they said they aren't allowed to but IDK) and they only give written profiles for 1 week or less profiles or quarters.
For the last point, our platoon Sgt got involved and 1SGT started a record of everyone on profile in the company to prevent incidents like this from happening again. He also changed how people sign out for sick call.
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SSG Brian G.
PFC Celeste Quesada - IF.. knowing that Medpros was down... and knowing that he had just placed this SM on profile, and knowing it could be an issue, why did the Doctor not just hand write her a profile until such time as Medpros could and would come back up?
This does not square here.
This does not square here.
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I have heard of sitting attention. But parade rest while sitting is a whole new one for me. Sounds like the SGT needs to review some command protocol.
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My immediate thought was she was doing something that annoyed him like fidgeting in her seat, talking to the soldier on either side of her etc. Since there is no command for a seated Parade Rest her NCO is out of order here and needs some remedial training in drill and ceremony. If indeed she was not paying attention which it doesn't sound like it since she aspires to other schools for Ranger and or Special Forces and nails the APFT. Maybe that NCO is trying to get her attention for something else. Maybe he's just mad at her for something she allegedly did. Maybe he likes her and wants her attention. Maybe she's showed him up a time or two and he doesn't like that? I know a lot of maybe's but he's wrong giving her Parade Rest while seated, no such thing! She should initiate paper work back at him and have him explain himself!
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PFC Celeste Quesada
Actually the one who wants ranger/ special forces is the SPC that beat the PFC's score. The PFC is also a pt stud but apparently there was a rumor that a female made a sexual harassment claim against an nco so they started dishing out counselings to females for little to no reason. Unfortunately for the PFC, the other females were either on detail, at warfighter, or got moved to operations (the badass SPC and myself) so she was the only one left in the motorpool and the SGT was part of a group of NCOs that did similar things, but they were smarter about finding reasons to punish the joes
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MSG Gary Eckert
That's a pretty serious allegation. If you believe that counselling was retaliatory by the NCO for a perceived sexual assault complaint, then you need to take it to your Chain of Command through the open door policies or to a SHARP representative.
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PFC Celeste Quesada
MSG Gary Eckert
I was not able to make a complaint for her as I wasn't directly involved and only knew what witnesses and she told me. I'm also not in anymore and that NCO along with his posse were separated and moved throughout group. They never told us why they were moved but we can only assume it's from the numerous complaints against them from other soldiers as well.
This was a rumor so trying to bring it up to top would result in further retaliation and potentially get her in more trouble.
The NCO was backed up by a group of NCOs that all backed each other up so it's the word of 4 NCOs against one PFC.
Had two of them including the one in this post police knock on my door when I was on quarters. They then pushed past me into my room to "check on me". I was being given food by another soldier and they tried to get me in trouble but I showed them the regs and they couldn't get me in trouble so they punished the other soldier.
I was not able to make a complaint for her as I wasn't directly involved and only knew what witnesses and she told me. I'm also not in anymore and that NCO along with his posse were separated and moved throughout group. They never told us why they were moved but we can only assume it's from the numerous complaints against them from other soldiers as well.
This was a rumor so trying to bring it up to top would result in further retaliation and potentially get her in more trouble.
The NCO was backed up by a group of NCOs that all backed each other up so it's the word of 4 NCOs against one PFC.
Had two of them including the one in this post police knock on my door when I was on quarters. They then pushed past me into my room to "check on me". I was being given food by another soldier and they tried to get me in trouble but I showed them the regs and they couldn't get me in trouble so they punished the other soldier.
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There is no such thing as "parade rest in a seated position". In fact, I can think of no universal direction or instruction on how to sit, just general expectations. Sitting upright with hands lying flat on your thighs is a formal position, but certainly not included in any manual that I'm aware of. Frankly, My opinion is sitting with your arms crossed behind your back would be, and look, quite awkward.
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I am guessing you were not in the room, but if I had told a seated Soldier to go to parade rest, my expectation is that Soldier would have understood it was her responsibility to stand and then assume parade rest. My guess ( I wasn't in the room either) is she was being disrespectful at the time and he wanted her to go to parade rest to stop the disrespect. Whether the counselling was a waste of time is really a factor of the future. After she was counselled, did the behavior the caused him to put her at parade rest change. If so, then the counselling served it's purpose.
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PFC Celeste Quesada
I would agree with you but he actually expected her to sit with her hands behind her back. He told her not to stand up because she was looking for a NSN for him.
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MSG Gary Eckert
I have heard SGMs tell soldiers at promotions boards to sit at the position of attention. That is not a drill position, but everyone SPC or SGT that has appeared before a promotion board knows exactly what that means. If he told her to sit at parade rest, that would be the a modified form of sit at the position of attention. If she understood that he meant to put her arms behind and hold them their as if at the position of parade rest and she didn't then she was wrong. Probably not the way I would have handled the situation, but as a Personnel Sergeant, I have had more distraught Soldier's at my desk then you could ever imagine. I would let them blow off steam for awhile; however, eventually, I would grow tired of it and tell them to at ease, because as long as they were talking they weren't going to be able to listen to me tell them what could or couldn't be done in their situation.
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