Posted on Jan 8, 2023
Medical Board Separation in progress. Command is attempting an administrative separation. Am I going to lose everything?
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It’s not a secret that my time in service has been rough. Physically and mentally, I am not okay. My overall quality of life has declined significantly. In recent months i have been completely destitute. Lifelong injuries, that I am struggling to navigate have led to a substantial amount of weight gain. Something I’ve never struggled with in my life. I recently got a new commander who frankly hates fat people. Not something that I have ever had to consider myself in the past, but Now I find myself being slightly overweight. In his short time here the commander has had a very clear and present distain for hefty individuals and has found any reason possible to get them out of his company. I have been in the medical process for the better part of the year and I’m nearing the end of it . However, he has felt the need to initiate an administrative separation packet for having missed appointments. Mind you that I am on several medications, many of which are used to help with my newfound mental deficiencies. My previous commanders and any decent human being take that into consideration, when it comes to things such as missed appointments. Over the past year I’ve had anywhere from 5 to 8 appointments on any given week. Over the course of the last year I have missed nine appointments, three of which were from a single day where I was in the ER. According to brigade policy, I am to be given a GOMAR. However, that can be given at four missed appointments. My commander has taken it upon himself, with no written guidance to do so, to initiate an administrative separation packet. This is, despite the fact that, with no intervention I will be out of the army in two months. it is his outspoken goal to have administrative action taken against me in Lou of the metal board, in hopes that I get nothing as far as disability or insurance on the outside. In his words, “If you want to be lazy, miss appointments, and make me look bad… I’m going to do everything I can to fuck your life.“ I apologize for the profanity but those are his words, not mine.
I just want to know if I still have a chance to finish this MEB process, or if I am just out of luck.
I just want to know if I still have a chance to finish this MEB process, or if I am just out of luck.
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Posted 2 y ago
Responses: 5
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The way this works is that if you are pending an MEB and Administrative Separation, both processes will run the full course and then the Separation Authority (Commanding General) decides which separation to approve. Your Commander doesn't need "written guidance" to initiate a separation, it's his responsibility to do so when he believes a situation warrants separation.
That means that:
1. You might not be out of there in two months or whenever your MEB finishes. And
2. You need to pull your head out your ass and function like an adult, set alarms and reminders to make it to appointments. It's hard to convince a CG that you need a medical separation when you don't go to your appointments.
When you leave the Army you won't have a commander to be upset about missed appointments, you'll just be charged a fee. You may even be refused future service. Going to appointments you set is basic Adulting that you will be expected to do as a civilian
That means that:
1. You might not be out of there in two months or whenever your MEB finishes. And
2. You need to pull your head out your ass and function like an adult, set alarms and reminders to make it to appointments. It's hard to convince a CG that you need a medical separation when you don't go to your appointments.
When you leave the Army you won't have a commander to be upset about missed appointments, you'll just be charged a fee. You may even be refused future service. Going to appointments you set is basic Adulting that you will be expected to do as a civilian
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SSG Bill McCoy
Missed appointments in the civilian world result in still having to pay for them, at least in part. In the military, appointments are important - you miss one and that's an appointment that someone else COULD have had so, yes, he's been remiss and extremely so it seems.
That said, if his mental problems, and/or medications contribute to that (and not as a mere excuse), then he may have some leeway and Command forgiveness. That said, he still missed far too many.
As for the weight and an admin separation ... indeed, that is the Commander's perogative and responsibility. I agree that overweight troops should be separated; unless they meet stringent remedial weight loss efforts. I have some empathy for him; but not much sympathy. As you said, he needs to pull his head out ... or as we used to say, "pull himself up by the bootstraps and get it together."
Regardless of his separation type, he can still seek help at the, VA and he should. In fact, I think that today, the VA works with the MEB program and he should investigate that as well.
That said, if his mental problems, and/or medications contribute to that (and not as a mere excuse), then he may have some leeway and Command forgiveness. That said, he still missed far too many.
As for the weight and an admin separation ... indeed, that is the Commander's perogative and responsibility. I agree that overweight troops should be separated; unless they meet stringent remedial weight loss efforts. I have some empathy for him; but not much sympathy. As you said, he needs to pull his head out ... or as we used to say, "pull himself up by the bootstraps and get it together."
Regardless of his separation type, he can still seek help at the, VA and he should. In fact, I think that today, the VA works with the MEB program and he should investigate that as well.
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SFC (Join to see)
SSG Bill McCoy it's very, very common for Soldiers being separated by MEB to get flagged for being overweight. It's so common that nobody tries to separate them for weight because it just wouldn't fly. His command wants to separate him for missing appointments. In the Army when a Soldier misses an appointment it goes to the CG (O8 and up) and Brigade (O6) Commandet who then get on the company commander. It's a big enough problem that Generals are being briefed on the number of missed appointments.
That company commander is then taking a beating for a Soldier whose health is so ill they can't be in the Army, but at the same time fails to go to their treatment for their illness. So now you have a commander who is getting tore into by their Senior Rater for failing to ensure their Soldier is going to their appointment, after the Army already provides all the time for the Soldier to see providers during the MEB process. When a Soldier is going through the MEB process, commanders are briefed that the Soldier can't be separated for weight and that their single job is to go to providers appointments.
That company commander is then taking a beating for a Soldier whose health is so ill they can't be in the Army, but at the same time fails to go to their treatment for their illness. So now you have a commander who is getting tore into by their Senior Rater for failing to ensure their Soldier is going to their appointment, after the Army already provides all the time for the Soldier to see providers during the MEB process. When a Soldier is going through the MEB process, commanders are briefed that the Soldier can't be separated for weight and that their single job is to go to providers appointments.
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This is a lot to process. I have a bit of experience with this. I have separated Soldiers in the past.
1. Even if you are suffering from a medical issue you are still required to maintain your compliance with the ABCP. If you think your medical issues caused the weight gain then a medical provider could be able to stop it. When you fail HT/WT you will have to go to several appointments and a provider will access your medical condition. I was battling a bit of cancer in the past when the meds caused me to gain some weight. I got back in shape quickly. The doctor will say that you have a medical condition and that would potentially create a med separation for you. You will never be exempt from HT/WT.
2. If you are in the IDES process then you would know it. The MEB is just the start of the IDES process. It sounds like you are just dealing with some medical issues that would separate you but you haven't really been evaluated. Even if you are in the IDES process you can still be administratively separated. I believe it goes to the first O-6 in your chain to decide if the admin separation stops the IDES process.
3. You need to take some responsibility. One of the biggest issues we had at Bragg was missed appointments. When you look at the loss of productivity and care due to missed appointments you would be shocked. A doctor can spend hours a day getting ready for one appointment only for it to be missed. That is why most posts have a policy like that. I was about to face an MEB for leukemia but I was able to beat it. I went to every appointment like my life depended on it. For you, it was your character of separation that depended on it. Unfortunately, you already missed some appointments.
4. You need to be prepared for either. How the Army separates you doesn't dictate what happens after the Army. I would often tell Soldiers that struggled that they may not be a good fit for the Army and that's okay. They may find their true passion now and not spend years in a career they don't enjoy. It could be a good thing.
On a side note, some of the Soldiers I separated felt that I did them a disservice. I would just inform them that they were there due to their actions. As a commander I never went out to my unit and targeted anyone. When they failed to comply with military customs and regulations I had a duty to act. I don't know about how your commander addresses those who are not in compliance with their HT/WT but it is not a regulation that he made, the Army created it.
1. Even if you are suffering from a medical issue you are still required to maintain your compliance with the ABCP. If you think your medical issues caused the weight gain then a medical provider could be able to stop it. When you fail HT/WT you will have to go to several appointments and a provider will access your medical condition. I was battling a bit of cancer in the past when the meds caused me to gain some weight. I got back in shape quickly. The doctor will say that you have a medical condition and that would potentially create a med separation for you. You will never be exempt from HT/WT.
2. If you are in the IDES process then you would know it. The MEB is just the start of the IDES process. It sounds like you are just dealing with some medical issues that would separate you but you haven't really been evaluated. Even if you are in the IDES process you can still be administratively separated. I believe it goes to the first O-6 in your chain to decide if the admin separation stops the IDES process.
3. You need to take some responsibility. One of the biggest issues we had at Bragg was missed appointments. When you look at the loss of productivity and care due to missed appointments you would be shocked. A doctor can spend hours a day getting ready for one appointment only for it to be missed. That is why most posts have a policy like that. I was about to face an MEB for leukemia but I was able to beat it. I went to every appointment like my life depended on it. For you, it was your character of separation that depended on it. Unfortunately, you already missed some appointments.
4. You need to be prepared for either. How the Army separates you doesn't dictate what happens after the Army. I would often tell Soldiers that struggled that they may not be a good fit for the Army and that's okay. They may find their true passion now and not spend years in a career they don't enjoy. It could be a good thing.
On a side note, some of the Soldiers I separated felt that I did them a disservice. I would just inform them that they were there due to their actions. As a commander I never went out to my unit and targeted anyone. When they failed to comply with military customs and regulations I had a duty to act. I don't know about how your commander addresses those who are not in compliance with their HT/WT but it is not a regulation that he made, the Army created it.
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CSM William Everroad
SPC (Join to see), like CPT (Join to see) suggested, your Commander, even with the language, has responsibilities to act. From the information you provided, and from the command team's point of view:
1. You are dealing with medical issues, but not going to your appointments;
2. You are gaining weight, but there is no telling if it is because of your medical issues (because you aren't going to your appointments);
3. Now you are not compliant with Army regulations for body composition.
I too have had a few Soldiers fall into these exact same circumstances. Most go to their appointments. The ones that miss one are counseled by their FLL to not miss another and they go and their paperwork gets done and they get fixed or separated (mainly due to the MED board process). In the rare occasion that a Soldier does not want to comply with the order to go to their appointments they are counseled by the commander (3rd strike). Further non-compliance results in the initiation of separation.
I empathize with your situation, but according to you, you have racked up 9 missed appointments. Even if 3 were "excused" due to being in the ER, that is still 7 appointments that were made and missed. No Commander I have served with would have allowed that to continue. Without medical diagnosis and treatment, the Army would be doing you a disservice and the MED board cannot proceed. You took that away by refusing to attend appointments.
What you are asking your commander to do is allow you to continue your pattern of behavior, potentially not get MED boarded and continue to gain weight with no documented medical profile all the while missing appointments that could potentially resolve the issue for both of you.
By not going to the appointments, you lack the medical documentation necessary to convince the Commander that you are not simply malingering.
1. You are dealing with medical issues, but not going to your appointments;
2. You are gaining weight, but there is no telling if it is because of your medical issues (because you aren't going to your appointments);
3. Now you are not compliant with Army regulations for body composition.
I too have had a few Soldiers fall into these exact same circumstances. Most go to their appointments. The ones that miss one are counseled by their FLL to not miss another and they go and their paperwork gets done and they get fixed or separated (mainly due to the MED board process). In the rare occasion that a Soldier does not want to comply with the order to go to their appointments they are counseled by the commander (3rd strike). Further non-compliance results in the initiation of separation.
I empathize with your situation, but according to you, you have racked up 9 missed appointments. Even if 3 were "excused" due to being in the ER, that is still 7 appointments that were made and missed. No Commander I have served with would have allowed that to continue. Without medical diagnosis and treatment, the Army would be doing you a disservice and the MED board cannot proceed. You took that away by refusing to attend appointments.
What you are asking your commander to do is allow you to continue your pattern of behavior, potentially not get MED boarded and continue to gain weight with no documented medical profile all the while missing appointments that could potentially resolve the issue for both of you.
By not going to the appointments, you lack the medical documentation necessary to convince the Commander that you are not simply malingering.
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Regardless of medical status Service Members are required to make appointments and also required to adhere to height/weight standards. They can gig you on either regardless of light duty, limited duty, or if you have a new ETS from a med board. With that said where are you in the Med Board process? Has your package already been submitted to the board for review or your review has returned with a percentage and final decision? You said you had two months left and I was wondering if that was final or an assumption. The best thing you can do is work with your leadership and medical staff to identify the when, where and why on all of your missed appointments. You may feel that it's obvious or a no brainer but 9 missed appointments in a year is a lot even when you consider 3 were in a day due to being in the ER. I was med boarded and completely understand where you are coming from but you have to understand perception and how this new Commander sees it from their end. The best thing you can do is get all of the information on the table and have it vetted by people of authority. Meaning you need status updates from Medical and your med board case worker. You need to work with Medical to address why you missed the appointments. You need additional leaders from your chain on board who know you better than the new leader so you can create a buffer between you and him. Good luck
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