Posted on Sep 24, 2020
My chain of command just announced that they're going to inspect on and off-post housing. What are they allow to inspect?
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So my question is can they order me open up my kid's room if my son and daughter are in their rooms, or if my dogs are in one of the rooms behind a closed door because of not being friendly to strangers can they order me to open. I apologize for such a naive question, I just have never experienced this before. Is there anything I can reference about off post house inspection by the chain of command.
Chain of Command
Housing
Inspections
Posted 5 y ago
Responses: 197
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Okay, here we go. On post housing at Ft. Dix in the early 1980's. I'm home on a weekday, just having come off CQ. There comes a knock at my front door, and there stands CSM James Ligon, post CSM. He knocked on my door because there was a weed in the flower bed out front. A friggin weed. Tells me to get out here, and square it away. I went out and pulled the offending weed. Then he said he wanted to see the interior of my quarters. My immediate response was "No Sergeant Major, you can't come in." He wasn't happy, but he left. Turns out the on-post housing in that area was swarming with cockroaches. The housing office sent in exterminators once a month, and we had to sweep up HUNDREDS of those dead vermin.
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Its about time not only did I serve my country I served above and beyond the call of duty as an Infantry Paratrooper as well as volunteering for combat duty in Korea during peacetime. i never expected nor did I ask for anything in return for my service. However, the deplorable conditions in which I lived off base of Ft. Campbell returning stateside made my new wife cry and i was never embarrassed so much as a soldier. It is for the safety of your family not an invasion of privacy. After 40 years of receiving a metaphorical nut shot to the heart for serving; thank you's, handshakes, and hugs are not sincere or thoughtful. They are trying to help you. Man up for the sake of your family you owe it to them. Whether you served as an officer, a REMF, or a leg it is a team effort and we're all in this together. I am begging of you please do right by your family it is the honorable thing to do. Sincerely thank you for serving.
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Suspended Profile
Ok. As a former civilian city HUD Housing Inspector that Federal, state and municipal codes, specifically Title 45, minimum housing standards are met in all dwellings. That was my job along with prosecuting, ( fines and denial or revocation of their Occupancy Certificate ). It is a courtesy to allow military officials to do those inspections. Especially rentals for the obvious reasons. I hope this helped the argument some.
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I find it to be discrimination that on base members are subject to housing inspections, but by simple virtue of being granted off-base housing or by being married that you are exempt from inspections.
In my opinion, if the military is holding any member to an inspection standard then that standard should apply equally to ALL members regardless of their marital status.
In my opinion, if the military is holding any member to an inspection standard then that standard should apply equally to ALL members regardless of their marital status.
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this begs for lots of questions. Why is this happening? welfare or theft,or harm to civilians?? I would ask questions and understand why this is happening, instead of getting defensive and making knee jerk reactions
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SGT Tim Tobin
1stSgt Nelson Kerr totally agree. Unless the command is trying to keep something from the civilians that may look poorly on the post. We all have had experiences with "townies" that didn't like the military presence so trying to prevent an incident would be a reason to keep in on the qt. Not the best solution but a little more benevolent
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1stSgt Nelson Kerr
SGT Tim Tobin hard to think of a case where doing that would not be obstruction of justice off-post and can not see at all where it would not violate both the Constition and the UCMJ
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SGT Tim Tobin
1stSgt Nelson Kerr I can't disagree on any point my only thought pattern is to talk to command and find out what is behind this and then make a battle plan!!
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Okay. I conducted inspections of all my soldiers including those who lived off post as well as on. The inspection is a health and welfare. You determine if the soldier is living in unsatisfactory living conditions. Has basic needs met. You would be surprised with things you will find. I could not and would not wonder around someone’s house. It’s not a white glove inspection either. Just making sure my soldier was living in livable conditions. I could not force my way in. That’s breaking and entering so if my soldier told me i could not go in, I didn’t go in. Nor could i order him because military authority does not cover living quarters unless your in the barracks. Nor did i knock on the door. That can be viewed as assault. I have run into soldiers who their spouse had a legal medical marijuana card. Lived off post. The soldier could not face any legal issues unless he decided to participate. House smelled. I have found soldiers who did not have food because they were out of money. Most posts have a food bank or we passed the hat then i got to go shopping and reinserted after payday to make sure they had food. These inspection allow your chain of concern to identify problems and fix them before they cause more dire issues. Invite your chain of concern to come over for a lunch or dinner. I did steaks for them and their families. Shows i have food and living in decent living conditions. The relaxed atmosphere helped everyone so if there was any questions everyone felt comfortable asking and answering.
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SGT Keith Smith
MAJ Steve Warnerski - first of all this is not a chain of command thing it’s a chain of concern issue. Second this is NCO business and my conduct is governed by the NCO creed. Unless I find an issue that can not be resolved at my level, you would never know but it is part of the job of a sergeant to know his soldiers and from experience I can tell you it has solved issues before they became a disciplinary issue.I will preform my duties so you do not have to.
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SGT Keith Smith
CSM Colin Patterson - There is nothing in that I do not understand and know. Depending on the state if you witness a crime and do not report it then you are guilty of a crime as well. Strange how this has morphed into catching them doing something that is wrong and not just checking up on your soldiers. I once checked up on one of my soldiers and smelled pot. Found out his wife had a medical card. I would never had known unless I had went there and looked and smelled. Yes you could smell it on his uniform at times and I was then able to tell my chain of command why he smelled like that. I would never had known if I had never went and saw him.
What you said above is also why you do not knock. Doing so can be viewed as assault.
What you said above is also why you do not knock. Doing so can be viewed as assault.
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1stSgt Nelson Kerr
SGT Keith Smith - Soo you can violate the law and the Constitution to follow the Soldiers creed?
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SGT Keith Smith
1stSgt Nelson Kerr - I am not violating and laws. To my knowledge there is no law that prohibits ringing a doorbell. If there is then I need to post it next to the No solicitation sign. Forcing your way is still illegal so as in most things no means no. As far as constitutional rights go well we kinda gave up some of those when we agreed to the contract. Freedom of speech being the first that comes to mind.
Why do I get the feeling that you want to catch someone committing some kind of crime. If that’s what your attempting just get a video or a recording of it. Several states have what’s called a one person rule. The army can not use it but the DA can. Even if it is done without the other person’s knowledge. Then ,after law enforcement does whatever they do, you can see if the soldier in question has what is called a serious incident. A missed formation or not showing up after 24 hours. AWOL then comes into play. Then you just chapter the soldier. All nice and tidy.
What I am doing is not trying to catch anyone but to make sure the soldier and his family are having basic needs met. Things like running water, electricity, food, and not living in a situation that puts the soldier at risk. If an issue is found then working with the family to make sure those needs get met.
However if you suspect a crime is being committed then call the police. I know in Oklahoma the police will just go arrest them on probable cause. They do not have to charge the soldier for anything but most likely the soldier will still be chaptered for going AWOL.
So to recap. Set up a time. Be polite and conduct yourself in a professional way. No means no. Identify any issues and take care of them at the lowest level. NCO business.
Why do I get the feeling that you want to catch someone committing some kind of crime. If that’s what your attempting just get a video or a recording of it. Several states have what’s called a one person rule. The army can not use it but the DA can. Even if it is done without the other person’s knowledge. Then ,after law enforcement does whatever they do, you can see if the soldier in question has what is called a serious incident. A missed formation or not showing up after 24 hours. AWOL then comes into play. Then you just chapter the soldier. All nice and tidy.
What I am doing is not trying to catch anyone but to make sure the soldier and his family are having basic needs met. Things like running water, electricity, food, and not living in a situation that puts the soldier at risk. If an issue is found then working with the family to make sure those needs get met.
However if you suspect a crime is being committed then call the police. I know in Oklahoma the police will just go arrest them on probable cause. They do not have to charge the soldier for anything but most likely the soldier will still be chaptered for going AWOL.
So to recap. Set up a time. Be polite and conduct yourself in a professional way. No means no. Identify any issues and take care of them at the lowest level. NCO business.
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This action reminds me of the fire arm issues.First automatic weapons.Then expansion from there.This could easily turn from an inspection to a search. I don't buy the fact that we have that many servicemen ,living in landlord squalor ,that the military needs to do canvassing of our soldiers off base quarters.Even with permission.Next thing you will hear is "I was just in the neighborhood and ".Obviously,with out a war,the military has too much time on it's hands.
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If you are not breaking any rules or regulations; you have nothin to worry about!
Stop whining.
Stop whining.
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1stSgt Nelson Kerr
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." If someone want to unlawfully violate your rights the proper answer is no.
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They will only be concerned with the kitchen and bathrooms. Preventive Medicine does the normal inspections. It's just a normal health and welfare inspection. This one just sounds like they want to make sure everyone is living in good quarters rather they be on post or off. Yes, they can do that. They also check through out your neighborhood on a monthly schedule and take water samples to make sure your water is good to drink. They will not open your closets and drawers. I'd put your dogs in the yard during the inspection. I've lived in both on post and off post. If the off post quarters are on the government list yes they can check it out.
But, I've been out since 1997 and I don't know if things have changed. I doubt that. Preventive Medicine is like the Health Dept. of the Military and they do everything.
Sgt. M. Aperans
Veteran (U.S. Army)
But, I've been out since 1997 and I don't know if things have changed. I doubt that. Preventive Medicine is like the Health Dept. of the Military and they do everything.
Sgt. M. Aperans
Veteran (U.S. Army)
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They do have the authority to make health and welfare checks on, off post housing. They have to give you suitable notice. The US government pays for your housing, they have the right to insure those funds are keeping you in adequate conditions. They can require you live in billeting if they believe you are not taking care of yourself or your government funded quarters. It’s rarely done unless reasons present themselves - because it’s a pain in the ass.
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CSM Colin Patterson
They are not allowed and have no authority to inspect on post contract housing. Therefore its a no brainer that they cannot inspect off post housing.
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Suspended Profile
They do NOT (repeat, NOT) have the authority to make health and welfare checks on, off post housing. Entering a residence requires a WARRANT. The mumbo-jumbo about BAH is nonsense. Pure nonsense.
SGT Keith Smith
MAJ Steve Warnerski - okay let’s say your soldier asked you over after work. When you show up you get invited in. In the course of the evening you notice bruises on the wife and/or child. By your logic you can not report this. In fact your saying that your knowledge couldn’t even be used as probable cause.
I know that this is not what is and by not reporting the suspected crime can actually land you in jail with the soldier.
I know that this is not what is and by not reporting the suspected crime can actually land you in jail with the soldier.
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Suspended Profile
The issue was inspecting the residence of a subordinate, NOT being invited into the residence as a social visit. Let's stick to FACTS, NOT speculative "what if" scenarios....we could play "what if" for decades & accomplish nothing.
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In my experience the CoC does it to get an idea of how soldiers are living and the status of their homes. Like, unresolved repairs and stuff. Be sure to speak to your spouse to make sure they understand and they're comfortable with someone coming into your home. Shouldn't be any problems if you have nothing to hide. Otherwise use the opportunity to give a great impression on yourself when your commander and 1sg come by. They'll see a lot of shit holes on that day, make sure you have the best looking one they've seen.
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1stSgt Nelson Kerr
" If you have nothing to hide" ? Perhaps you should read the 4th Amendment which does fully apply anywhere of base.
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They will do off post inspections because of excessive illicit drug use in the unit. Mine was after someone made a drug lab in on post housing. They did the barracks too but found nothing but dirty rooms. Stuff was everywhere but an nco was making it. Truth is they can't enter without a warrant but it's easy to get. They just need suspicion.
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1stSgt Nelson Kerr
They are doing this to the whole unit and they need to have at least some evidence to get a warrent
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I have heard that as long as they are paying you bha they can inspect your housing, but only your general living areas. No bedrooms or private areas.basically only what they can see or what you allow them to see. I might be wrong but haven't served in 8 years so things might have changed.
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Civilian housing can not be entered or inspected without your permission. The exception would be if it is government owned off base housing. If you don't want your off base home inspected, simply tell your chain of command. That should take care of it. If it doesn't, go up the chain.
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This topic brings back bad memories. Back in 1968 one night I pulled CQ. Around 10 pm a trainee reported that someone stole his wallet. I immediately called for an open locker inspection for the entire company since all platoons were in the same building. I came across a bag of marijuana in one of the lockers. (Back then possession of weed was very serious offense). After completing the inspection I called the MPs and the trainee was taken into custody. Much to my surprise the next morning I see the trainee that had the weed in formation with his platoon. I went to the CO and asked him what he was doing back. As it turned out, I was looking for a wallet and not for weed so he got off the hook. After that when I see inspection mandates I wonder how the legal acrobatics are going to play for successful inspections.
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SSG Mendoza,
Let be careful of the situation. Do not confuse inspection at your rental house or apartment with a room inspection in the barracks. One of the things that I required my PSG to do was to visit (no inspection) their Soldier at their home. To see how they live, how are the conditions around them. Check for crooked landlords or even banned apartments. NO, no one can get in your house without your permission, and even if you let them in, they have no freedom to move from room to room. Even in Government housing, your chain of command has no right to inspect your quarters. Bring this issue to your PSG or 1SG immediately.
Let be careful of the situation. Do not confuse inspection at your rental house or apartment with a room inspection in the barracks. One of the things that I required my PSG to do was to visit (no inspection) their Soldier at their home. To see how they live, how are the conditions around them. Check for crooked landlords or even banned apartments. NO, no one can get in your house without your permission, and even if you let them in, they have no freedom to move from room to room. Even in Government housing, your chain of command has no right to inspect your quarters. Bring this issue to your PSG or 1SG immediately.
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SSG Dennis Mendoza
1SG Victor Sotil When this event actually came up the unit said inspection I guess someone informed them that they can not say inspection on a private home. The first time they did this I did allow my PSG and PL to come in but the second time my current PSG just came to the front of the house. This also did not begin to occur until the young SPC Vanessa Guillen death happened and the Army now has instructed units to do these visits. To be honest my chain of command doesn't know me at all, like my previous units' COC did.
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In my 21yrs in the Army the only time a spouse was made to leave was domestic violence, from what I understand there had to be a very good reason for making someone move back on post. I worked at NAS Pensacola for 15 yrs as a base police officer and we had to escort a spouse both the male and female .
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