Posted on Apr 23, 2015
Nonsubdued Unit Patches on Army Utilities. What are your thoughts?
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With the elimination of the Dress Green Uniform nonsubdued patches and the heraldric tradition that goes with them will be further pushed from the forefront of our soldiers minds and uniforms.
I propose that whenever the nonsubdued US Flag is worn on utility uniforms that nonsubdued unit patches be worn also. When a subdued US Flag is worn then subdued unit patches be worn. This would be for both current unit and combat patches. What do you all think?
(Addded clarification as to why I propose this, added 4 May 2015)
I propose this as a less painful alternative to many other suggestions I have heard about. For example, some would have us wearing Class Bs if we were not doing something tactical. I would rather foot the bill for a colored patch and be able to launder my daily uniform at home than have to pay a hefty weekly bill for dry-cleaning of the Bs, not to mention buying more shirts and pants to last the week. I apologize for not having added this from the beginning as, IMHO, I believe it makes my suggestion a bit more reasonable.
I propose that whenever the nonsubdued US Flag is worn on utility uniforms that nonsubdued unit patches be worn also. When a subdued US Flag is worn then subdued unit patches be worn. This would be for both current unit and combat patches. What do you all think?
(Addded clarification as to why I propose this, added 4 May 2015)
I propose this as a less painful alternative to many other suggestions I have heard about. For example, some would have us wearing Class Bs if we were not doing something tactical. I would rather foot the bill for a colored patch and be able to launder my daily uniform at home than have to pay a hefty weekly bill for dry-cleaning of the Bs, not to mention buying more shirts and pants to last the week. I apologize for not having added this from the beginning as, IMHO, I believe it makes my suggestion a bit more reasonable.
Posted in these groups: 
Uniforms
Uniforms
Edited 10 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 15
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The Army can barely afford to supply Soldiers with one patch when they arrive at a unit, why would we wear different color patches? We wore subdued patches on the BDUs unless you were special and in the 1st ID and deployed.
This idea would just add to the improper wear of the uniform since the majority of Soldiers have a hard enough time with what we currently do. Changing patches before you go to the field/deployment sounds like something the good idea fairy would think up.
This idea would just add to the improper wear of the uniform since the majority of Soldiers have a hard enough time with what we currently do. Changing patches before you go to the field/deployment sounds like something the good idea fairy would think up.
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COL Vincent Stoneking
CSM (Join to see) HOOAH! I hate complexity just for the sake of complexity. It already seems like a lot of what goes on with Army uniforms is like the 15/37 pieces of flair from Office Space. Personally, I would remove the velcro from the shoulders and return to sew-on for patches.
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CW4 (Join to see)
Velcro was added to reduce cost to the soldier of having to have things sewn on everytime they switch units or get promoted/demoted, as well as making it easy to sterilze a uniform in a combat environment. Velcro may not look nice, but then it is a utility uniform. If we want to look nice, we have Class As and Bs.
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CW4 (Join to see)
Another option would be, of course, the sewing of non-subdued patches on the Dress Blue Uniform, and once again having the issue of ruining a dress jacket because once you wear the 2 ID patch, your uniform is ruined for being able to wear any other patch once you PCS.
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I'm not trying to buy more patches. And no, I dont want the army to take more of our pay and benefits to pay for it either. I wish we could remove the patches completely along with the sleeve Velcro on the ACU. While we're at it let's remove everything but name rank and U.S. Army. Save all that Hooah Hooah decorations for the dress uniform. Once again, the marines have it right.
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CW4 (Join to see)
There is no regulation that I am aware of that requires the wearing of anything other than name, rank, US Army, and a current SSI (unit patch) on utility uniforms. Anything else is a soldier's preference. Unit patches used to be given out by unit supply when inprocessing a unit. If the Army could stop changing uniforms in order to keep uniform companies in business, (fourth PT uniform, second dress uniform, and third utility uniform in my 28 years) they would have more than enough money to afford a few patches.
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SSG Nick Tramontano
There's a thing called Unit SOP. When I was first assigned to Ft. Bragg I sometimes wore subdued pin on wings but the unit wanted everyone to have them sewed on. As for uniforms, I started with fatigues, then cammies (only Airborne units) ,BDUs, DCUs, ACUs. Then prior to the Bosnia mission we had to sew the flag on, then eventually told to remove it, then the Army said we all wear the flag.
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I'll admit that I miss the color patches as well but I don't know that this is the answer. Here's what I would suggest: Throw the ASU in the trash, go back to the historic "pinks and greens," and wear colored patches on those. We actually have a distinctive uniform that looks good again.
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Sir, does every unit even have a non-subdued version? I remember seeing a non-subdued 101 patch a couple of years ago, but I've never seen one for my current unit, which is 2ID.
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CW4 (Join to see)
As far as I know all unit patches are approved by the Army Heraldry Institute which requires both nonsubdued and subdued designs.
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SGT (Join to see)
Thanks so much, SSgt (Join to see), you're too kind. I do see CW4 (Join to see)'s point. It's sad to see old traditions die off. If wearing bright-colored patches is part of our history, we should find a way to keep it alive.
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SGT (Join to see)
MAJ (Join to see) Thanks for the link, Sir. I found the full-color patch for 2ID and also my unit's distinctive insignia and associated symbolism.
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I've seen pictures of one of the Ranger BNs doing this for a ceremony, full color patches, tabs, and badges. It looked pretty good.
That being said, I don't like it for daily wear, wouldn't mind it for special occasions/ceremonies.
That being said, I don't like it for daily wear, wouldn't mind it for special occasions/ceremonies.
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I'm all for it, good idea! And think it's a cheaper alternative to buying extra Class B shirts (both long and short sleeve) and extra pants.
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Respectfully no!!! There's no reason what so ever that this would make a soldier look or feel more professional. We are finally about to get away from the ACU this summer and move back to a more tactical uniform and we want to throw a pretty colorful patch on that? For what?
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CW4 (Join to see)
We throw a pretty, colorful US Flag on it. Your explanation for that would easily be substituted for why we would wear a colorful unit patch as well.
Once again, only in garrison environments, and in lieu of more expensive and (I believe) less liked ideas such as wearing Class Bs around post all day unless engaged in tactical or maintenance duties.
Once again, only in garrison environments, and in lieu of more expensive and (I believe) less liked ideas such as wearing Class Bs around post all day unless engaged in tactical or maintenance duties.
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I like that thought. Just means that we spend more money. I personally think we need to nix the Velcro and go back to buttons and sew on. Keeps the Jr enlisted from losing there name and US Army tapes!
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I like this idea. With the velcro it is really a non-issue changing out between subdued and non-subdued.
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While a novel idea, I think this is a good idea fairy moment gone too far. What is the cost-benefit analysis or how does this provide a great benefit to the unit? In my mind this would actually decrease efficiency, because leaders would be worried about their soldiers have the right or wrong patch for the day and not actually training.
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CW4 (Join to see)
Sir, it isn't something that would change on a daily basis. Deployed = subdued, Garrison = non-subdued.
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LTC (Join to see)
CW4 (Join to see), with daily wear uniforms that have Velcro attachments for patches I don't see the benefit of creating new Velcro patches. I also don't see the benefit when we have not worn non-subdued patches on our uniforms in this century.
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CW4 (Join to see)
The Dress Green Uniform is still in the inventory and still requires non-subdued patches. This discussion is, in part, due to the fact that it will be gone at the end of this year and with it, the heraldry that accompanied it. As for the benefit, I have detailed why I think it is a good idea, especially in lieu of other options elsewhere in this thread.
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I actually think that is a novel idea. In this case you could see the patch in color. There are now some patches that will never be a CSIB. Like the Follow Me or any of the small sustainment units that don't deploy. I doubt the units would really like this. It reminds me of the Gold Knights. They were full color patches on their jump suit.
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Heck, we already stand out in any environment other than HESCO barrier yards and gravel pits, so heck, why not?! What's a bit more flair on whats supposed to be a camouflaged uniform....
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SFC Michael Hasbun
I have no objection to us wearing B's more often. We have far too many NCO's and Officers who can't put together a decent uniform that can use the practice... Practice makes perfect.
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CW4 (Join to see)
Seeing as the Bs are typically worn without ribbons and all the other jazz, see DA PAM 670-1, page 59, paragraph 13-14e, I doubt that this would give soldiers the practice that you desire.
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SFC Michael Hasbun
When people wear it like that because they just took the jacket off, I've no objection. When people by default just don't put on any awards, it gives me a decent idea of who my lazy zebras are... If nothing else it can serve as a barometer for professionalism.. Kinda like the Green/Blue dress uniform conversion once did..
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SSG Nick Tramontano
Class B with a white shirt makes you look like a waiter and not a soldier. Also it's ridiculous for anyone that works outside to wear them. I suppose you can wear them to do work in the motor pool since it's NOT tactical !!
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