Posted on Jan 14, 2015
On the spot corrections in public; when is it appropriate?
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This weekend me and my GF decided to get out and go to the movies not near any military base once so ever (maybe a Reserve or NG training facility could be near by). So I'm glancing around notice a uniform on a young lady and her hair down with a PT cap on inside of the mall. I didn't loose my mind at first because it could be anyone just wearing the uniform these days. As I get closer to her I notice she has on SPC rank. I told my GF that I have to say something to her and of course she didn't understand. When I approached the SPC and her civilian male acquaintance, I asked her was she in the Army and she quickly replied "yes". So I asked her did she know she was in complete violation of Army Regs she says "yes". The female rolled her eyes at me and I could tell she was going to have
a attitude with me so I quickly removed myself from the situation. So at what point do we as leaders make a on the spot correction in public or remove ourselves from the situation? I felt at the time as a NCO I should have done more to make her fix herself, but on the other hand I didn't want to make a scene at the mall and in public. SPC Ware I definitely will remember you forever.
a attitude with me so I quickly removed myself from the situation. So at what point do we as leaders make a on the spot correction in public or remove ourselves from the situation? I felt at the time as a NCO I should have done more to make her fix herself, but on the other hand I didn't want to make a scene at the mall and in public. SPC Ware I definitely will remember you forever.
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 709
You luck the young gentleman didn't punch you. You could of did that different and they would of got it correctly done. I can get to there level and understand them and when they out and not correct they see me and they get themselves correct. If soldiers dont respect you they get you messed up
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Tell me what you guys think of this.
First off, I am a medically retired SSG with 10 years of service. I broke my L1 vertebrae during an airborne jump and had to have a L5-S1 fusion after it healed. I was medically retired 2 years later.
I was in a local K-Mart and saw a soldier with head gear on indoors. If I recall correctly, if it hasn't changed, there are only a couple instances where you can wear head gear indoors, one being if you are carrying a loaded firearm as an MP. I asked the soldier if he was carrying a firearm, to which he replied "no." So, I politely told him that he should not be wearing his headgear indoors. His first question was, "who are you?" I responded with my name and rank, followed by retired. He took off the headgear and said nothing more.
Was I out of line correcting this soldier even though I am retired? I feel, as a retired NCO, I should make an obvious correction, even if I am no longer active duty. I didn't make a scene and it was all very calm. So, wrong or correct on my part?
First off, I am a medically retired SSG with 10 years of service. I broke my L1 vertebrae during an airborne jump and had to have a L5-S1 fusion after it healed. I was medically retired 2 years later.
I was in a local K-Mart and saw a soldier with head gear on indoors. If I recall correctly, if it hasn't changed, there are only a couple instances where you can wear head gear indoors, one being if you are carrying a loaded firearm as an MP. I asked the soldier if he was carrying a firearm, to which he replied "no." So, I politely told him that he should not be wearing his headgear indoors. His first question was, "who are you?" I responded with my name and rank, followed by retired. He took off the headgear and said nothing more.
Was I out of line correcting this soldier even though I am retired? I feel, as a retired NCO, I should make an obvious correction, even if I am no longer active duty. I didn't make a scene and it was all very calm. So, wrong or correct on my part?
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PO3 Devin Gallagher
I think you did the right thing. I guarantee to this day that if I see someone jacked up I am going to say something and I have been out for 2 years now. I still care about my Navy and when I see someone disrespecting it by not properly wearing their uniform correctly or worse stolen valor idiots I will definitely say something.
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This is something that should be reported. There is one major difference between police officers and correctional officers, Pride. A police officer would never walk into a store in half uniform or with his shirt untucked, yet a corrections officer might. The thing that builds respect for officers is the officers have respect for themselves and as an extension the badge. As military we are supposed to mindful of how the public views us. SPC. Ware has no respect for herself, the uniform, the military, nor even the country itself. If she did she would not have been showing disrespect to a person in civilian attire while disrespecting the uniform in public as well.
This is one thing that bothers me to the core, I want what I did to mean something and the more we allow people to disrespect the uniform the more we will harbor disrespect towards the entire institution of freedom. Maybe my rant seems crazy to some who have yet to witness the disrespect and even hate of some of the public, but trust me; it's not pretty.
This is one thing that bothers me to the core, I want what I did to mean something and the more we allow people to disrespect the uniform the more we will harbor disrespect towards the entire institution of freedom. Maybe my rant seems crazy to some who have yet to witness the disrespect and even hate of some of the public, but trust me; it's not pretty.
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I would have done on spot thats what we need as leaders to get back into doing its called tact. Attitude or not I have corrected seniir NCO's and a couole officers just the way uniform looked or how they were acting in uniform in public but I used tact. Some resented me cause I am SPC (P) but if you are afraid then when will you not be afraid to make on the spot correction. If I am jacked and I dont realize it yes correct me or if I just am tore up from the floor up correct me. By all means but use tact
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Unfortunately living here in south side Virginia the NG here thinks AR670-1 dosent apply to them. Granted I have separated but I still hold pride in my branch. When I identity myself as a former soldier and make the correction I get laughed at and walked away from. I have given the soldiers names to their 1SG and CO but apparently nothing is being done so I figure I'll give them a little longer to square away their unit then if not I'll go to their BN CSM or I may give up my disability and go back in.
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Standards affect everything in life. Every. Thing. Without standards of loyalty, spouses dishonor themselves and their families by cheating. Without standards of alertness or care, we let ourselves or others create conditions for illness or possibly even death.
Excellence is a habit -- get into it yourself, then help others.
I remember as a trainee many soldiers in our unit were doing the wrong thing so an NCO took it upon himself to remind us through PT. "When I say 'DOWN', you say 'Discipline!', when I say 'Up!' you say 'Get some!'" 40 soldiers, saying in unison, "Get some DISCIPLINE!" over and over again still makes me look back and smile.
Excellence is a habit -- get into it yourself, then help others.
I remember as a trainee many soldiers in our unit were doing the wrong thing so an NCO took it upon himself to remind us through PT. "When I say 'DOWN', you say 'Discipline!', when I say 'Up!' you say 'Get some!'" 40 soldiers, saying in unison, "Get some DISCIPLINE!" over and over again still makes me look back and smile.
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As a Spc. I would be that guy who would call my NCO. Tell him her what I saw and ask if he would have a word with this Spc. As a good soldier and friend I would tell her on the spot professionally in a low voice and ask for her to fix herself up and show some pride in that uniform. Your not going to represent my unit looking like a troll.
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Everywhere you go you will always see people who are in mixed uniforms out of regs and bypass AR670-1 so stolen valor is a big thing now. As well. I believe the corrections should have been made but on a professional level . if you were an NCO and she was a lower enlisted she should be in accordance with what an NCO says to her.
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Look her up on AKO and contact her unit with the details of her infraction and attitude.
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It is our job to be correct 24/7 we are only 10% of our nation. So as we serve we should sit forward an example at all cost. There are many scenarios in how that could have played out. But I would have pulled her aside and made an on the spot correction. We can never miss an opportunity as leaders to make our presence felt in a positive manner.
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Soldiers know when they are wrong.
I just present my Identification card and tell them to fix themselves in a quiet voice without making a scene.
Yes, we must absolutely correct the Soldier as they are representing the Military and this is what the public sees and remembers.
I just present my Identification card and tell them to fix themselves in a quiet voice without making a scene.
Yes, we must absolutely correct the Soldier as they are representing the Military and this is what the public sees and remembers.
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On the spot correction was definitely called for. As a female Sergeant, I scrutinize a uniform just in passing on post let alone having her hair down like that off post. I would have definitely pulled her to the side and helped her understand that it is even more imperative that we look professional in a civilian environment. We have an image to uphold and as a professional, needs to set an example to those Soldiers who may see her off-duty hours, as well as, the civilians/ veterans that would scrutinize her appearance because they know she knows better. No need to make a scene of course. If she had become disrespectful I would have asked for her chain of commands unit and 1SG name. Go ahead and not wear the appropriate head gear or put your hair up. Dually noted! It's not hard to find info of an individual on AKO to address standards that need to be reiterated to their Soldiers.
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Suspended Profile
There are a ton of Army regulations that people violate every day, especially those in the higher enlisted and officer ranks. They just don't give a shit. Neither does the Army. Many regulations aren't even enforced, until someone somewhere bears a grudge against someone else and tries to bust their ass for breaking an army regulation that hardly anyone knew existed. But here's a list I see plenty of self-righteous hypocrite pricks breaking:
1. Walking and talking on their cell phones.
2. Getting tattoos.
3. Getting piercings.
4. Drinking alcohol while in uniform
5. Doing drugs
6. Not having their fingernails properly manicured and trimmed.
7. Not having the bottom of their pants tucked into their boots, but "bloused" instead.
8. Smoking while in uniform.
9. Engaging in homosexual conduct (While it was still illegal, "Man-love Thursdays")
10. And perhaps the biggest one of them all: Indecent language. Yes, you are not allowed to be vulgar or use cuss words or offensive language. Go figure, because you'd never know such a regulation existed while serving in the military. AR 600-20, and UCMJ, Article 134, Paragraph 60. The penalties are also quite severe, and ironically, NEVER enforced by the military, nor punished. Guess most of the military would be kicked out if it was.
So, all you assclowns who complain about this uniform violation, next time remember that you deserve to be discharged for bad conduct on account of you breaking the indecent language regulation.
1. Walking and talking on their cell phones.
2. Getting tattoos.
3. Getting piercings.
4. Drinking alcohol while in uniform
5. Doing drugs
6. Not having their fingernails properly manicured and trimmed.
7. Not having the bottom of their pants tucked into their boots, but "bloused" instead.
8. Smoking while in uniform.
9. Engaging in homosexual conduct (While it was still illegal, "Man-love Thursdays")
10. And perhaps the biggest one of them all: Indecent language. Yes, you are not allowed to be vulgar or use cuss words or offensive language. Go figure, because you'd never know such a regulation existed while serving in the military. AR 600-20, and UCMJ, Article 134, Paragraph 60. The penalties are also quite severe, and ironically, NEVER enforced by the military, nor punished. Guess most of the military would be kicked out if it was.
So, all you assclowns who complain about this uniform violation, next time remember that you deserve to be discharged for bad conduct on account of you breaking the indecent language regulation.
SSG Clyde Koontz
Some of the things you listed are NOT regulations, (smoking, blousing boots)unless they're very new ones. Some of them have changed more than once over recent years (tatoos, piercings, homosexual behavior). At least one is dependent upon the situation (drinking alcohol). I'm retired now so some things may have changed, but your list is not accurate.
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Suspended Profile
My list is accurate, and yes, you've retired. Smoking is a regulation that can be penalized whenever the higher-ups feel like making an example of someone, as well as blousing boots. Unless you served as a pogue in a pogue unit, these are standard regulations. And despite what the Kenyan-born "president" has done about homosexuality, chances are that homosexuality will be banned once again after he's gone as it should be.
You can always simply google these things for yourself and learn more.
You can always simply google these things for yourself and learn more.
Should have continued to try to make the correction in my opinion.
The issue with this is that the standards are not being adhered to by the newest generation of Soldiers. While I am all for challenging things that don't make sense while I am at work, there is absolutely no reason to disregard the regulations.
Once corrected, make the correction and move out.
The issue with this is that the standards are not being adhered to by the newest generation of Soldiers. While I am all for challenging things that don't make sense while I am at work, there is absolutely no reason to disregard the regulations.
Once corrected, make the correction and move out.
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You did what you were supposed to do. She will think next time about doing that I hope. Anyways today's up bringing in Army is not what it used to be.
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As a reserve E5, we are constantly told to tell our juniors to "unfuck themselves" and we are bombarded by training sessions about living the motto of honor, courage and commitment. ...In or out of uniform.....on or off duty. So I believe you should have corrected the spc, but in a way that didn't cause a scene. Praise in public, reprimand in private....As we were taught here anyway. Not sure how the army deals.
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You're a better man than I, if she rolled her eyes at me I'd have made it my mission to take down her name and give her CSM a call, after I told her that her blatant disregard for the standard and her obvious lack of respect were an embarrassment to the uniform.
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I would have used tech. I loath people emailing crap like this to commands but if she wasn't receptive to correction in public, keep your professional cool and let her command handle the problem. Give a heads up to your command in case it bites you in the ass they can cover your ass.
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I had a similar situation on Veterans Day last year, when I noticed a SPC in uniform with a gold watch on his left wrist, PT shirt under his tan shirt and clearly didn't shave. I corrected the young man and respectfully, the SPC took off the wristwatch and greeted me with a "Happy Veterans Day." Now a days some bare the uniform just to be recognized.
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