Posted on Jan 14, 2015
On the spot corrections in public; when is it appropriate?
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This weekend me and my GF decided to get out and go to the movies not near any military base once so ever (maybe a Reserve or NG training facility could be near by). So I'm glancing around notice a uniform on a young lady and her hair down with a PT cap on inside of the mall. I didn't loose my mind at first because it could be anyone just wearing the uniform these days. As I get closer to her I notice she has on SPC rank. I told my GF that I have to say something to her and of course she didn't understand. When I approached the SPC and her civilian male acquaintance, I asked her was she in the Army and she quickly replied "yes". So I asked her did she know she was in complete violation of Army Regs she says "yes". The female rolled her eyes at me and I could tell she was going to have
a attitude with me so I quickly removed myself from the situation. So at what point do we as leaders make a on the spot correction in public or remove ourselves from the situation? I felt at the time as a NCO I should have done more to make her fix herself, but on the other hand I didn't want to make a scene at the mall and in public. SPC Ware I definitely will remember you forever.
a attitude with me so I quickly removed myself from the situation. So at what point do we as leaders make a on the spot correction in public or remove ourselves from the situation? I felt at the time as a NCO I should have done more to make her fix herself, but on the other hand I didn't want to make a scene at the mall and in public. SPC Ware I definitely will remember you forever.
Regulation
Mentorship
Leadership
Professionalism
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 709
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Can I just say, that it's sadly nice to hear that it's not just my service that has such attitudes. I don't understand it, it's not like anybody does not realize uniforms are part of the contract upon joining.
That said, leadership means the responsibility of confronting issues, no matter how uncomfortable. By shooting for or achieving an advancement, you have to understand that your accepting that responsibility, not just a pay raise. That's WHY you get a raise in pay.
And as a person who is quite bothered by disrespect of uniforms, it's incredibly disheartening to feel like I'm the only one who cares at a unit. By you speaking up, you may have an annoyed SPC, (who needs to see some strong leadership), but you also make the job easier for all down the line. This SPC feels she can behave this way because she's been been allowed to behave this way through observer inaction. What other regs are being ignored because of such disrespect?
That said, leadership means the responsibility of confronting issues, no matter how uncomfortable. By shooting for or achieving an advancement, you have to understand that your accepting that responsibility, not just a pay raise. That's WHY you get a raise in pay.
And as a person who is quite bothered by disrespect of uniforms, it's incredibly disheartening to feel like I'm the only one who cares at a unit. By you speaking up, you may have an annoyed SPC, (who needs to see some strong leadership), but you also make the job easier for all down the line. This SPC feels she can behave this way because she's been been allowed to behave this way through observer inaction. What other regs are being ignored because of such disrespect?
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I agree with SMSgt Gerald A. Thomas. We all know how small this world can be. Would love to be there when she runs into you again with you both in uniform, and she remembers you.
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Make the correction on the spot, it only takes a second to save a life. It may be yours .
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Condoning a behavior is as bad as endorsing it. You did right by addressing the problem. Going to the next level by contacting the command was merited by the 'eye roll'. My teenagers don't get by with it either. I approached a young Marine in the airport last year with his Alpha blouse unbuttoned. I asked to speak with him without even identifying myself. When I pointed out the fact of him being out of uniform, he apologised and immediately buttoned up. Everyone makes mistakes on occasion, but disrespect will always push the next button on me.
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It is always appropriate to make on the spot corrections -especially if you are an NCO. Kindly but firmly instruct (her) to square up. If it is blatant disregard be sure to let word get to (her) chain of command that she was out of regs in public and let them address the issue further. No need to make a crazy scene but you shouldn't show fear before a subordinate, especially in public. Do what you swore to do.
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If she was wearing official rank/insignia/branch identification, then perhaps a correction would be necessary. However, at what point are we realistically concerned about army regs...and at what point are we becoming anally retentive butter bars? You know? Nowhere near a military installation...a huge number of military surplus stores across the country that sell military uniforms, etc...the general public doesn't necessarily see someone in a "uniform" as a person of the armed forces. Chances are, she wasn't truly enlisted. There are a lot of stolen valor cases out there these days.
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SSgt Heather Capra
James, anyone who is in dressed in modern uniform is assumed to be active military by the general public, no matter how far from base one might be. There may be impostures but they are few and far between and most service folks can immediately tell the difference. Second every service member should be concerned how other service members portray them in public, if not I highly recommend you talk to your Commander about why you should. Third you do a disservice to yourself by generalizing in a derogatory way that the proper course of action by NCO's and CO's is something to look down upon. Maybe you should re-read the oath you swore to uphold, and if it is something that you cannot uphold in it's entirety you should consider gracefully bowing out. It's not easy being a leader, you won't understand the full impact of that for a while yet, until then it is a good idea not to slam your leaders for doing what they are supposed to do. ;)
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PFC James Massey
Capra, I get what you're saying. I also know that when morale drops under an administration that does nothing but continuously let our services down...often times the most underling of service members tend to be drawn down paths of discontent. I am a veteran now...no longer serving and I do appreciate the candor you used. I too believe that under the UCMJ, every member must be aware of compliant with the rules and regulations of conduct. I also believe that, at least where I live, there is a large number of people in the public who wouldn't think twice about seeing a person in uniform. Now...if they carried themselves appropriately, displayed military bearing and were obviously military...more people WOULD take note. A drop sac sand bag like the one in this picture isn't going to appreciate a counsel from a stranger. Place her photo or pass her identification on to local military installations. Let it go from there.
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I believe the correct action was not to cause a scene and bring discredit to the Army but I think that the name could have been reported and give the command an opportunity to provide further training.
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I would have stood right next to her and just kept looking at her after she rolled her eyes until she decided to give me her 1SG's name, Commander and or decided to leave.
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you should not back down. PERIOD. if you know the name of the solider you can find more info. TELL her don't ask to correct her self once then if she makes a big issue you tell her fine ill take it up with your chain of command. a spc of that moral barring should not be a SPC.
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I find it a shame that you even have to pose that question. I will refrain from calling that SPC a soldier, a true soldier would not have to be told how to wear the uniform... Her attitude, both in what she said and the way she looks, is a disgrace to the uniform and others that serve. She should lose that rank until she is responsible enough to wear it. A little extra duty wouldn't hurt her!
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I don't think she should be wearing her duty uniform to a movie theater anyway.
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In my 21yrs I have seen these things more than I would like to mention. Where I am stationed now it is more prevelant than I would like to say. I can't go to the mall on a weekend without seeing someone wearing their uniform improperly. I know that for some spouses it may seem embarrassing but if we as leaders do not make it a necessity to correct this behavior immediately then we are condoning it. When I was a young Sailor I was quick to point out someone else's deficiencies if they pointed out mine but I have also grown and learned from the mistakes of my past. Don't allow anyone to ever getaway with disrespecting any services uniform. I see uniformed members from all branches on a weekly basis and keep pictures and uniform requirements for all branches so that when they enter my facility and try to say they are wearing the proper uniform I can then correct them. Train your Soldiers, Sailors, Marines, and Airman their uniform regs and make them understand how they can be an example of how to or how not to present the Armed forces. Make them proud to wear the uniform and to hold those accountable who disrespect it. (Drop the mic and step off soap box)
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Forget it, let her have it. You can ask her to come with you off to the side if not then we can do this right here in front of everyone. The choice is hers, but if she is going to give you a attitude then fix now along with her uniform. If she doesn't then report her butt and send her packing.....if they want to act like a punk and disgrace the uniform, then treat them like it...get in their face. Maybe they miss the boot camp treatment.
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The problem is the young Soldiers these days don't have respect or discipline. They know it's not right but they do it anyway. It's the same with some of the young NCO's. Back in the late 90's it was all about sending the Soldier to the boards and getting promoted. It didn't matter if they new their job or was ready to lead. The answer was the could lean as they go. Which was fine for those that were ready for a leadership position. But a long the way the one's that were not ready slipped through also. More then one Squad Leader I had to carry because they didn't know their job. Yes I got off the subject. But a leader can't instill respect and discipline if they don't have it to begin with.
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As an NCO it is not only your responsibility to correct a uniform violation wherever you see, but also your obligation. She is out of uniform IN PUBLIC. If she is going to wear the uniform, it needs to be worn correctly, no matter if it's at a mall or or not. This is a situation where an NCO must find the moral courage to be an NCO and do the right thing. This person is representing the Army when in uniform and she must be reminded of such. If she gets uppity with you and speaks back to you as the superior ranking individual, then further corrections/admonitions must be administered, up and including contacting her chain of command.
This was also a teaching moment. As a SPC she may be getting close to promotion for E-5. At this point she must be made to understand she is a walking billboard for the Army. If she looks bad or sloppy, we all do. This is also not the proper attire to be wearing to a movie. When I was in, we were not allowed to wear our BDU's off post, unless going to or from post.
This was also a teaching moment. As a SPC she may be getting close to promotion for E-5. At this point she must be made to understand she is a walking billboard for the Army. If she looks bad or sloppy, we all do. This is also not the proper attire to be wearing to a movie. When I was in, we were not allowed to wear our BDU's off post, unless going to or from post.
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wow. it is a touchy situation with a civilian companion. the companion does not know the regs. so the proper thing would be to identify yourself and ask them to step to the side. when we are out and about we represent the United States in or out of uniform and should act accordingly. the chain of command does not end on base or even in your private home. you are a soldier,airman or marine 24/7. you are required by reg to represent yourself as a professional at all times and we have a duty as Nco's to hold all personnel to the standard, even off duty or on leave. if you cannot do so then how did you get to become an nco?
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I agree with SMSGT, I would've definitely addressed the issue tactfully and respectfully as possible to draw less attention. The Soldier alone has a discpline issue that her direct leadership must deal with. In some instances, ask for the unit 1SG and leave it up to her COC.
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I agree first you ask if they are in and if they respond with "yes" then pull them a side and make the correction. This is where it can get interesting, if they take it and make the adjustments then that ends it. How ever if they decide to you attitude, then get there name off their CAC or uniform and roll it up the chain.
I was out this past weekend having lunch with my family and notice someone wearing a fleece and civilian clothes. Before I approached I waited to see the front, then I saw name, rank and branch. That is when I approached and made the correction after of course pulling them off to the side. How you approach them will impact how they take the correction.
I was out this past weekend having lunch with my family and notice someone wearing a fleece and civilian clothes. Before I approached I waited to see the front, then I saw name, rank and branch. That is when I approached and made the correction after of course pulling them off to the side. How you approach them will impact how they take the correction.
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