Posted on Apr 7, 2015
Police officer charged with murder in South Carolina after shooting unarmed man in the back. What do you think of cases like this?
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As if the act of murder wasn't bad enough, the end of the video shows him handcuffing the victim... who may have been still alive, and walking away. Watching how care free he was about the whole thing, including walking away at the end, leads me to believe that this isn't the kind of thing a good cop just did on a bad day. I imagine that this police officer has victimized people to various degrees throughout his entire career. How his peers on the force have not done anything about it is a little worrisome. Law enforcement do so much good in this country, it's so unfortunate to see this be how they are perceived by so many.
More on the story: http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/07/us/south-carolina-officer-charged-murder/index.html
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXO3Ix_GIyI
More on the story: http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/07/us/south-carolina-officer-charged-murder/index.html
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXO3Ix_GIyI
Police
Murder
Law Enforcement
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 111
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This is how I see it.
It was bad decisions made all the way around. I respect police, I understand they are just doing their job and they also want to go home to their families. I also understand they are regular people with regular issues and opinions like everyone else.
This officer was dead wrong to shoot this man. I could even justify his actions if he shot the guy once in the leg but I dont understand how taking a taser equals to shooting someone EIGHT times in the back. This officer committed murder plain and simple. Lying on his police report to cover it up.
Now as a black man in America i say this. I tell my sons and younger friends and family and Soldiers to control a situation do not escalate it. It starts by respecting each other. Me respecting the police and that they have a job to do and the police to respect me as an American citizen.
When police pull me over, i dont argue with the police officer. I speak to them accordingly and give them the paperwork they ask for. I personally dont have time to argue and complain and video record a cop pulling me over. You dont know what's on that officers mind. I dont know if he is a bigot, racist, homicidal, depressed, or suicidal so Im not giving an officer ANY reason to shoot, tase, or arrest me. Its quicker for me to do what he tells me to and continue on with my day. If i have a problem with that officer ill get his badge number and go down and speak to a supervisor. Because if something happens to you, it might not be anyone there to record or make a video.
When i saw that man run (or jog, thats what it looked to me) from the officer i really thought he must have some type of murder warrant out on him. He ran because he had a child support warrant on him. If he was my family member and i could speak to him from the dead i would say "why did you run because of a child support?" Ok he wouldve went to jail BUT he would be alive. Just bad decisions on made on both sides.
Like i stated earlier. That cop knew exactly what he was doing and im glad he will be brought to justice and I hope he is in jail for a long time. Dudes like him make it harder for other GOOD cops to conduct their jobs safely now.
It was bad decisions made all the way around. I respect police, I understand they are just doing their job and they also want to go home to their families. I also understand they are regular people with regular issues and opinions like everyone else.
This officer was dead wrong to shoot this man. I could even justify his actions if he shot the guy once in the leg but I dont understand how taking a taser equals to shooting someone EIGHT times in the back. This officer committed murder plain and simple. Lying on his police report to cover it up.
Now as a black man in America i say this. I tell my sons and younger friends and family and Soldiers to control a situation do not escalate it. It starts by respecting each other. Me respecting the police and that they have a job to do and the police to respect me as an American citizen.
When police pull me over, i dont argue with the police officer. I speak to them accordingly and give them the paperwork they ask for. I personally dont have time to argue and complain and video record a cop pulling me over. You dont know what's on that officers mind. I dont know if he is a bigot, racist, homicidal, depressed, or suicidal so Im not giving an officer ANY reason to shoot, tase, or arrest me. Its quicker for me to do what he tells me to and continue on with my day. If i have a problem with that officer ill get his badge number and go down and speak to a supervisor. Because if something happens to you, it might not be anyone there to record or make a video.
When i saw that man run (or jog, thats what it looked to me) from the officer i really thought he must have some type of murder warrant out on him. He ran because he had a child support warrant on him. If he was my family member and i could speak to him from the dead i would say "why did you run because of a child support?" Ok he wouldve went to jail BUT he would be alive. Just bad decisions on made on both sides.
Like i stated earlier. That cop knew exactly what he was doing and im glad he will be brought to justice and I hope he is in jail for a long time. Dudes like him make it harder for other GOOD cops to conduct their jobs safely now.
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Maj Mike Sciales
Smart advice for everybody nowadays. I'd further advocate putting a camera in your car or a Go-Pro helmet can if you have any motorcycle riders. Videos keep everybody honest and they also work in the event of an accident. I also recommend an app called "CopWatch" It's free and if stopped you just start it and it will record everything and send a copy to You Tube (if you program it) automatically to prevent loss of the video.
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Shooting anyone in the back is bad news if they are not someone trying to kill you and you got the drop first. Shooting an unarmed guy in the back and killing him with 8 shots - what happened to the warning shot? One thing I learned extremely well in the military is how much discipline it takes to not take out the wrong person, and also when you should pull the trigger or not, at what, and so on. I was invited to a training of martial arts for a police department. I was horrified that these cops were as poorly trained as they were-because this puts them in the worst position of not being able to execute the moves properly but thinking they can. I brought this up to the sponsor of the event who agreed, but it underscores how much of a load is placed on our cops to begin with. There are a tremendous amount of great cops out there doing a good job, and often under difficult circumstances, but the ones that snap like this guy did make it a tragedy all the way around.
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LTC Paul Labrador
No such thing as warning shots. If you are going to discharge your weapon, you shoot to stop. And he did just that. The question is whether he was justified in doing so.
BTW, be careful about assumptions. Yes he shot 8 times....but did all 8 shots connect? I've seen accounts of only 4-5 connecting. Again in that situation, you shoot and the guys does not go down. Did you hit and he's not fazed or did you miss entirely? So you shoot again. Same result. So you training says you keep shooting until the suspect stops doing whatever he's was doing. In this case running. And when the suspect dropped, he stopped shooting. Again, not saying it was justified or not, just saying that the round count is not necessarily indicative of anything other than he shot 8 times before the suspect stopped.
BTW, be careful about assumptions. Yes he shot 8 times....but did all 8 shots connect? I've seen accounts of only 4-5 connecting. Again in that situation, you shoot and the guys does not go down. Did you hit and he's not fazed or did you miss entirely? So you shoot again. Same result. So you training says you keep shooting until the suspect stops doing whatever he's was doing. In this case running. And when the suspect dropped, he stopped shooting. Again, not saying it was justified or not, just saying that the round count is not necessarily indicative of anything other than he shot 8 times before the suspect stopped.
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SGT Craig Northacker
I understand and appreciate what you're saying - I was not referring to hitting the target 8 times, simply that 8 rounds were fired at someone fleeing-and that I am not sure our guys and gals get enough serious firearm training including live-fire response situations, which in turn creates tragedies. As someone pointed out, two families were impacted, and if that is the result of a dearth of fire discipline training more instances like this will occur. My generation required us to yell halt, then fire a warning shot, but that was shortly after we were issued repeating rifles. :) Justification is not my judgement call - only my observation that this was sad all the way around. And it sounds like the guy running was not up to good things when he was stopped. So what happened from start to finish has yet to be accurately reported.
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It certainly looks bad for the officer.
There are bad apples in every profession. All police should not be judged by the inappropriate/criminal actions of a few.
This will simply give the race-baiters like Obama, Holder, Winfrey, Jackson and Sharpton more ammunition to preach their racist hatred.
There are bad apples in every profession. All police should not be judged by the inappropriate/criminal actions of a few.
This will simply give the race-baiters like Obama, Holder, Winfrey, Jackson and Sharpton more ammunition to preach their racist hatred.
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CPT Ahmed Faried
haha. Sir, its obvious we don't agree on politics but I'm not sure if you are "trolling" with that response. Surely race-baiting isn't a purview only of Democrats.
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COL Jean (John) F. B.
CPT Ahmed Faried
Not trolling... I'm sure there are some race-baiters who are not Democrats. None come to mind, however. The ones I named are very obvious, however. Like I said, if you know any, please name them.
Not trolling... I'm sure there are some race-baiters who are not Democrats. None come to mind, however. The ones I named are very obvious, however. Like I said, if you know any, please name them.
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Maj Mike Sciales
Sorry but I hate that phrase "a few bad apples." Bad apples tend to spread their rot within the barrel. That is how toxic cultures develop. We've suffered from too many bad apples in too many barrels. We have 30,000 law enforcement agencies in the USA - most are very small. One bad apple in a small town can have dire effects on that community. We need to rethink our police structure and look at consolidation and standardization. Perhaps we've passed the point of "Mayberry" and need national qualification exams -- oral, written and physical along with a psychological component and nationally recognized training and regional academies. The Daily KOS reported that: "A total of 111 people were killed by police in the United States in March of 2015. Since 1900, in the entire United Kingdom, 52 people have been killed by police." I think we should be horrified by the 111. We need to confront this and fix this.
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COL Jean (John) F. B.
Maj Mike Sciales
I totally agree with you that even one bad apple is not good, however, we live in the real world and it is simply a fact that almost every organization will always have at least one bad apple. Despite the best efforts to weed them out, they will always be there. Unfortunately, organizations like the police draw more than their fair share because of the functions they perform. While the vast majority of police officers are top notch, it is a dream to think there will ever be a day that there are no bad apples in the ranks.
I agree we should be concerned about the 111 people killed by police, however, comparing that to the UK is probably not a good litmus test. We live in very different societies. How many of those 111 were unjustified? How many police officers were killed? How many situations existed where deadly force could have been used but was not?
The problem is not the police... The problem is society in general and the rampant lawlessness that has taken over certain parts of our country.
It is very easy to Monday morning quarterback police shootings and discuss the "shoot now" approach (which I do not think generally exists ). Police have to make split-second decisions on whether to shoot or not. Some of those decisions are good and some are bad. There are some obvious very bad decisions, but the majority are justified by the situation.
I totally agree with you that even one bad apple is not good, however, we live in the real world and it is simply a fact that almost every organization will always have at least one bad apple. Despite the best efforts to weed them out, they will always be there. Unfortunately, organizations like the police draw more than their fair share because of the functions they perform. While the vast majority of police officers are top notch, it is a dream to think there will ever be a day that there are no bad apples in the ranks.
I agree we should be concerned about the 111 people killed by police, however, comparing that to the UK is probably not a good litmus test. We live in very different societies. How many of those 111 were unjustified? How many police officers were killed? How many situations existed where deadly force could have been used but was not?
The problem is not the police... The problem is society in general and the rampant lawlessness that has taken over certain parts of our country.
It is very easy to Monday morning quarterback police shootings and discuss the "shoot now" approach (which I do not think generally exists ). Police have to make split-second decisions on whether to shoot or not. Some of those decisions are good and some are bad. There are some obvious very bad decisions, but the majority are justified by the situation.
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As a strong advocate for Law enforcement, I want to wait until all the facts are presented before making any judgement call. While the video is compelling, it doesn't tell the stress, the atmosphere, or the surroundings the officer faced prior to the shooting. I'll wait!
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I've seen good cops and "not so good cops". We have no idea what went on prior to the video. We can just imagine whats going to happen after. There are lots of questions still; drugs, etoh, assault, priors, threats, weapons, etc. Why is he running? Is he running away, towords someone? Why did the officer shoot so many times? How far away is back up? That officer will have to justify why he fired on an unarmed man, or could he and back up chased him down. I pray for the families of the victim and the officer. I pray the system works.
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CMC Robert Young
SSG, you hit the nail on the head. Let's watch the system.
Despite the 24 hour a day cable news cycle complaints that everything in the criminal justice system is broken and we are all oppressed subjects of an overbearing government as opposed to free citizens, most times (key point, MOST TIMES) the system does what it's supposed to do.
Despite the 24 hour a day cable news cycle complaints that everything in the criminal justice system is broken and we are all oppressed subjects of an overbearing government as opposed to free citizens, most times (key point, MOST TIMES) the system does what it's supposed to do.
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SFC (Join to see)
The system has proved it doesn't work that is the problem. ... This guy wasn't even arrested until the video came out the Mayor said it himself that without the video they had no reason to not believe it was a good shooting
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As to cuffing the victim (in this case), that is standard procedure. We do not see what happened before or even after. It appears really bad, but this officer was in trouble before the video, according to at least one of the news stories, and we can not know anything more about the officer other than what we see for 46 seconds.
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What makes this even worse is the number of shots the officer took. Granted, the video only shows a few minutes of the interaction between the man who appears to be unarmed the entire time and the officer. Not once do you hear the officer request the man to stop running, nor does he try to use his less-then-lethal weapons system. With someone that close, with that many people around, the officer just blinds discharges over 6 round of which it appears that 2 hit their mark. We all know bullets continue to fly until they run out of energy so if those other bullets did miss their mark who's to say this guy didn't injury someone else as well?
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This guy is a bad seed and makes a tough job even tougher for a ton of great cops out there. I think police need to get regular training on the continuum of force and embrace the steps to deEscalate potentially violent situations. Some departments do this exceptionally well but not all; and once the gun is drawn the only thing left to do is shoot. I suspect that pistol generally needs to stay holstered a lot longer in many cases. These opinions are my own.
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I have to go with OTHER for my choice. A clip of video is no different then a conversation, book, the Bible, etc. It can be taken in context or out of context. Preachers do it all the time from church pulpits...they cherry pick the phrase they want without the "just before" or "just after" to give it full context. Someone walking into a conversation mid stream may pick up on a phrase or statement that sounds awful....however, in full context, may make sense. Video clips are the same way..... what is the back story? What is the story going forward? While the video clip is disturbing, I have no FACTS to back up the officer OR the runner/victim. I will reserve judgment until AFTER the facts become known. I hope that the officer gets a fair trial. With that being said, if the officer acted correctly and in accordance to policy, he should be commended. If the officer was wrong, throw the book at him. DO IT WITH FACTS, INVESTIGATION, and as needed, PROVE he was wrong (always innocent until proven guilty is how our legal system is SUPPOSED to work).
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Maj Chris Nelson
CPT Justin Rose I also agree with you. What is shown in the video is concrete. The video creates a visceral response. The fact that the local legal beagles are pushing murder charges also says lots about the credibility of the video. I will not, however, assign any guilt charges (or innocent charges) to anyone until full review of all data/facts, and findings by a court of law. I want the right thing to be done. If guilty, he should receive max penalty. What I don't know is if there were weapons present earlier or situations that would have generated a greater response. The video is still only a moment in time and not the entire sequence of events from the first moment. That will have to be reviewed by the system.
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