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Yesterday while driving back to military housing here @ DLI, I saw a car of a student (we have tags in our cars for staff and for students for parking), so while at a red light, I noticed a sticker with Obama's picture and not my president next to it. So my question is, since we took an oath to defend the consitution and obey the orders of the president, for a SM, is it proper to put a statement like that for everyone to see? I know we have freedom of speech and all of that, but wouldn't be more proper if you don't like the incumbent, just exercise your right to vote and vote them out, but in the meanwhile obey his or her orders
President
Orders
Politics
Posted 12 y ago
Responses: 45
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It's no more appropriate than a Soldier having a bumper sticker with his Brigade Commanders picture on it with a negative caption.... If you wouldn't do it to your Colonel, or Captain, why do we feel free to do it to our boss's boss's boss's boss? I swear people don't think long term...
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SPC (Join to see)
I know I'm...seven months late to the party. But actually LTC Joseph Gross, that would not be legal at all. Under UCMJ Article 88 “Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.” That is just for officers though. Enlisted folk fall under General Article 134 which is a catch-all. If what you say or do "neglects to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces, all conduct of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces, and crimes and offenses not capital, of which persons subject to this chapter may be guilty, shall be taken cognizance of by a general, special or summary court-martial, according to the nature and degree of the offense, and shall be punished at the discretion of that court." Heads up for anyone who is still in (or retired), watch what you say.
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SPC Randy Torgerson
Here's an idea for active service members: If you can't relay your feelings about your president, buddy team with a like minded civilian (former active duty) on RallyPoint to express your opinions... Just a thought...
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SSG Edward Tilton
SPC Randy Torgerson - Put your Political stickers on a see through sheet that you can put in a window when you go off base
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SPC Randy Torgerson
SSG Edward Tilton - I would but I don't like any stickers of any kind on my auto's. I only have a license plate because I'm required too.....
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And let's go with one more. For those who truly love freedom. SPC Charles Brown , Cpl Dennis F. , SGT Richard H. SSG Daniel Deiler Cpl Brett Wagner 1SG David Niles PO1 (Join to see) , Capt Jeff S. , SFC (Join to see) SSG Trevor S. , SPC Randy Torgerson , CPT Gregory Wagoner , MSG Brad Sand , MSgt Keith Hebert , SSgt (Join to see) , SSG Laureano Pabon , MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca , LCpl Steve Wininger .
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1SG David Niles
They don't need to pack, they don't like America and the freedoms that help purchase that stuff they can leave it for a needy, Freedom loving person that does.
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Personal opinion. It is totally inappropriate. As you state, we take an oath. We may not like something but that is a fact of our everyday life and we are compelled to uphold that oath.
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Let's get a fourth one up. I wholeheartedly concur. They want higher taxes, then THEY can pay for it themselves. SPC Charles Brown , Cpl Dennis F. , SGT Richard H. , SSG Daniel Deiler , Cpl Brett Wagner , 1SG David Niles , PO1 (Join to see) , Capt Jeff S. , SFC (Join to see) SSG Trevor S. , SPC Randy Torgerson , CPT Gregory Wagoner , MSG Brad Sand , MSgt Keith Hebert , SSgt (Join to see) , SSG Laureano Pabon , MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca , LCpl Steve Wininger .
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SSG Edward Tilton
SSG (Join to see) - People might mistake you for a professional until they see your truck. If you control all three branches of the government how do you blame someone else
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SSG (Join to see)
SSG Edward Tilton - How is this unprofessional? You have stated emotionality instead of rationality. If the bumper sticker said "Obama sucks" then, yes, I would agree it is unprofessional. This bumpier sticker points out the hypocrisy of Obama voters who demand higher taxes for everyone but themselves. Those are facts.
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SSG (Join to see)
You still haven't answered the question. HOW is it unprofessional? Just because YOU think so does not make it so. Your private message to me exemplifies my point of emotionality, as well as now name-calling. Articulate a rational point instead of ad hominem attacks. I sure don't mind discussing different viewpoints, if done so in a polite and honest manner. Again, I ask, how is the above bumper sticker unprofessional?
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Here's a good one. SPC Charles Brown, Cpl Dennis F., SGT Richard H.. SSG Daniel Deiler, Cpl Brett Wagner, 1SG David Niles, PO1 (Join to see), Capt Jeff S., SFC (Join to see). SSG Trevor S., SPC Randy Torgerson, CPT Gregory Wagoner, MSG Brad Sand, MSgt Keith Hebert, SSgt (Join to see), SSG Laureano Pabon, MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca, LCpl Steve Wininger.
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LCpl Steve Wininger
I was saying this the first time he was elected when they were showing people crying like he was some kind of God.
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Cpl Brett Wagner
I cannot believe how people look up to this president, having little kids singing sounds about him in school. What has he done other than screwing up the economy and dividing the people of this country against one another?
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SPC Randy Torgerson
Well we have gotten some of our 2nd amendments a little more clearly defined. Although that was not his intention I'm sure.
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Since you drive off post as well, remember that everyone, including police officers have different political and social opinions. Having yours displayed on your bumper might give that irate (for whatever reason) police officer a reason to find a reason to stop you.
Or it can give someone at the Wal-Mart parking lot a reason to key your car or smash your windows. Not everyone holds the same opinons on everything (or anything).
Consider it PERSEC. Don't give anyone any reason to make you a target for anything.
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COL Vincent Stoneking
TSgt (Join to see) and THIS is the reason that I have no political bumper stickers on my vehicles, and until recently no stickers whatsoever. (Now have several obstacle race & SCUBA stickers)
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PO3 Camille Romero
I have a "FREEDOM ISN'T FREE" complete with flag sticker on the right side of my Jeep's windshield. Even this could be risky business if someone isn't fond of our country. Still, as a patriotic veteran, and one who appreciates other veterans, I refuse to be intimidated; I want to keep it.
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SSG Edward Tilton
COL Vincent Stoneking - I have one, a VCM, with no comment. That and FOP tags do the trip for me
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And another one. I will always choose the former. SPC Charles Brown , Cpl Dennis F. , SGT Richard H. , SSG Daniel Deiler , Cpl Brett Wagner , 1SG David Niles , PO1 (Join to see) , Capt Jeff S. , SFC (Join to see) , SSG Trevor S. , SPC Randy Torgerson , CPT Gregory Wagoner , MSG Brad Sand , MSgt Keith Hebert , SSgt (Join to see) , SSG Laureano Pabon , MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca , LCpl Steve Wininger .
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LCpl Steve Wininger
Freedom is never free, Like you SSG (Join to see) I choose the former.
What many don't understand, the free stuff, comes with a price also, it is called slavery. It is sad there are so many that do not see that.
What many don't understand, the free stuff, comes with a price also, it is called slavery. It is sad there are so many that do not see that.
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SSG (Join to see)
LCpl Steve Wininger, oh, you mean something like this? Yes, there are som many who just don't understand.
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LCpl Steve Wininger
That is exactly what I mean SSG (Join to see) The sad thing is, those who would give everything to be enslaved actually think they are free and so wear their chains like a crown.
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THE RIGHT TO SAY AND WRITE WHAT YOU THINK
Members of the military have the right to say or to write what they think, up to a point. They can't say things that encourage violence (other than as part of authorized military operations) or urge others to violate military regulations. They can't communicate with "the enemy," for example, by writing letters to Iraqi officials or soldiers. Article 88 of the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice) makes it a crime for a commissioned officer to use "contemptuous words" against the President, Vice-President, Secretary of Defense, and other specified high government officials. Enlisted members can be prosecuted under Article 134 for using similar words. The words have to be "to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces, or conduct of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces." Military members have gotten into trouble for calling officials "fascists," "thieves," murderers" "tyrants" "fools" and "gangsters." This law is selectively enforced. Some officers didn't get in trouble for saying bad things about President Clinton, for example. Article 117 of the UCMJ outlaws using "provoking or reproachful words or gestures" towards someone else in the military. The more real danger, however, if from saying things that could make other members desert, disobey lawful orders, or refuse to do their jobs. That kind of speech could violate Article 82 of the UCMJ, which makes it a crime for someone in the military to ask someone else to desert or mutiny (disobey orders as a group).
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SSgt George Brown
Sgt White The Supreme Court in the Heller decision states that the Second Amendment applies to INDIVIDUALS, which is consistent with the other 9 of the first 10 Amendments on reigning in the power of the federal or central government over the right of the individual.
Your commentary is just wrong on this issue.
The issue you have is what is the definition of Militia. It is not, if I understand your position, a professional military, it is a militia of individual citizens for the express purpose of protecting the state in which they live, and in so doing it gives each citizen the right to own a firearm. This can be expressed in the protection of the state AND self protection. It is based on natural law; Blackstone concluded keeping and bearing arms supports the natural rights of self-defense, resistance to oppression, and the civic duty to act in concert in defense of the state.
The issue you have is what is the definition of Militia. It is not, if I understand your position, a professional military, it is a militia of individual citizens for the express purpose of protecting the state in which they live, and in so doing it gives each citizen the right to own a firearm. This can be expressed in the protection of the state AND self protection. It is based on natural law; Blackstone concluded keeping and bearing arms supports the natural rights of self-defense, resistance to oppression, and the civic duty to act in concert in defense of the state.
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SPC (Join to see)
The sad thing is this Sgt white was trying to tell me the 15th amendment had to do with the govt somehow changing the constitution at its every whim. Seems to me he has never read the US Constitution in his entire life and has no clue. Just a hint Sgt. The 15th Amendment was to extend voting rights to freed African American Males after the civil war was over. Sgt if your so high speed, I want you to complete an assignment, I want you to read the US Constitution in its entirety and I want you to report back and let me and everyone on here know if any of your thoughts have changed. While your at it read the Federalist papers written by the founding fathers as to why we have the Amendment that we have. Your assignments due Monday at 1200 hrs.
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SFC Jim Ruether
I was always told that as an enlisted man I have no opinion and should refrain from offering one while on active duty!
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SFC Dominguez,
I don't think it is appropriate to post a bumper sticker like that, even though it is legal to do so. Not everyone likes who is in the White House, or who was in the White House before him. But as a Soldier, we are supposed to support and defend the Constitution and we must follow the lawful orders of those appointed over us. That includes the President, and I feel like this bumper sticker would send the message that the Soldier may not be willing to follow the orders of the President.
On that note, I remember being in a chow tent in Afghanistan during the presidential elections. I overheard a couple Soldiers talking about how if Obama won, they were going to get out of the Military, go AWOL, flee to another country, etc. I didn't think it was appropriate then either, even though he wasn't yet the President. I wonder if those Soldiers followed through with their statements...
Anyway, I think the problem comes down to a lack of respect. You don't have to like the guy or agree with his politics, but the bottom line is he is our President. If someone doesn't like it, they should have enough respect to keep quiet until the next elections.
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SSG Edward Tilton
I know several Police Officers who would have had you clear all of those windows before you moved another inch
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SPC Randy Torgerson
SSG Edward Tilton - No you don't know any police officers who would make anyone pull those stickers off this car as we see it here in this picture. There is no state in the united states of america where this car is doing anything against the law. All windows from the drivers 90 degree field of view left and right angle and going toward the rear of the vehicle are entitled to be as covered as the owner wants. As long as there are mirrors on the outside of both sides of the vehicle. If there is no outside passenger mirror, then the internal review mirror must have an unobstructed view through the back window.
Going by what we see in the picture above, there is the required outside drivers mirror. Like all modern vehicles sold today, I will assume there is an outside passenger mirror and most likely and internal review mirror. You can see out the back window. But even if the police officer didn't think you could, as long as there is an outside passenger mirror the driver is fine. Based on these facts, the vehicle above will pass all visibility and window vehicle code sections. So no police officer could force you or would even ask you to clear any windows on this vehicle.
Now, the police officer might arrest this driver for having an Obama sticker but that's a different story...... :)
Going by what we see in the picture above, there is the required outside drivers mirror. Like all modern vehicles sold today, I will assume there is an outside passenger mirror and most likely and internal review mirror. You can see out the back window. But even if the police officer didn't think you could, as long as there is an outside passenger mirror the driver is fine. Based on these facts, the vehicle above will pass all visibility and window vehicle code sections. So no police officer could force you or would even ask you to clear any windows on this vehicle.
Now, the police officer might arrest this driver for having an Obama sticker but that's a different story...... :)
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SFC Dominguez,
No, I don't think it's proper at all for us to criticize the president in public, whether it's a bumper sticker or a social media post.
I also don't think it's proper for a service member to refer to our Commander in Chief as "Obama".
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SSgt George Brown
Question for a JAG, Would Article 88 apply in all cases or just when the President is acting as CIC? I.E. Say a future president is impeached for an act illegal act, but is not prosecuted for it. Would it be disloyal for that to be talked about, but the next day the US is attacked and he orders the military to respond, and an Active Duty NCO states that because of his impeachment he should not be listened to? Is there a difference in the differing roles on what can be said?
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SGT (Join to see)
SFC Newell, it's not disloyal to vote for the other guy. My comment was directed at critical public speech. Again, I didn't say you don't have the right. I said that you shouldn't because it's improper, just like it would be improper for me to stand in the middle of the PX yelling that our Division Commander is <insert insult here>.
Let your vote do the talking for you.
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Cpl Brett Wagner
1LT Gregory Pizarro Jr. I don't get what you mean? I think a lot of people started calling it Obamacare like we have added "gate" with every scandal since Watergate. I would be shocked if the offical documents named it Obamacare. I don't think he wants to get stuck with that legacy. Doesn't matter if you are a supporter of our current president or not. That legislation is a disaster. The healthcare my wife gets as a highly paid public school teacher has doubled in price and they were told in writing it was due to the Affordable Care Act. She was just told it will go up again after the first of the year.
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Cpl Brett Wagner
SPC Shelby Thundercloud I understand what you are saying and the reason behind what you are saying I think what you say is respectful and admirable. IMHO if done in a respectful way I see nothing wrong with critisizing the CIC.Service members are not to be disrespectful of their leaders, however they are also obligated not to follow unlawful orders but they do all the time. Like when our president executed an American citizen in Somalia without even charging him with a crime, It was USAF service members that flew that drone and fired the missile. No one was prosecuted for following an unlawful order. Yet the same president allows terrorists to go free.
As far as addressing the president with last name only, that has been done with every president in history. Examples "When Washington addressed..." "Reganeagan was..." etc. Now if someone addresses the president directly as Obama or Reagn or whoever that would be unacceptable nop matter how you feel about the person. All elected officals are to be addressed with proper titles such as "Congreeman" or "Senator".
As far as addressing the president with last name only, that has been done with every president in history. Examples "When Washington addressed..." "Reganeagan was..." etc. Now if someone addresses the president directly as Obama or Reagn or whoever that would be unacceptable nop matter how you feel about the person. All elected officals are to be addressed with proper titles such as "Congreeman" or "Senator".
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