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I find this to be humorous and also a legitimate issue. Recently I was at large training compound with multiple units there, basically a "mock up" of a FOB. So while in the latrine some soldiers, that must have been in one of the support units there were talking. They were complaining about the soldiers from the infantry unit calling them "POGs." And without missing a beat someone yells from a stall in the same building "Shut up POG." I couldn't help but to laugh.
I usually don't care what you do in the Army as long as you are doing your job and are maintaining your professionalism. These units that we were running into were far below the expectations of maintaining professionislism. There were so many uniform violations our CSM had to wear blinders where ever he walked so he could make it there without correcting every soldier on the way. If he did he would never make where ever he was going. I was just wearing ACUs. It was a bit chilly but I saw a soldier with the ECWCS gen III level 7 jacket, aka the marshmallow jacket. With some sort of toboggan cap that was not anything to do with the army. There was no uniformity and it seemed like no one in their unit cared.
I am not calling anyone a POG in this post. I have our support personnel in our unit that we view as peers. They were harder than anyone in that other unit. They act like soldiers just like we do.
What is your take on this? Do you think they are asking for it by they way they are? Should anyone be called a POG? Should they be expected to maintain the same standard as everyone else in the Army? And what is their CSM doing when this is happening?
I usually don't care what you do in the Army as long as you are doing your job and are maintaining your professionalism. These units that we were running into were far below the expectations of maintaining professionislism. There were so many uniform violations our CSM had to wear blinders where ever he walked so he could make it there without correcting every soldier on the way. If he did he would never make where ever he was going. I was just wearing ACUs. It was a bit chilly but I saw a soldier with the ECWCS gen III level 7 jacket, aka the marshmallow jacket. With some sort of toboggan cap that was not anything to do with the army. There was no uniformity and it seemed like no one in their unit cared.
I am not calling anyone a POG in this post. I have our support personnel in our unit that we view as peers. They were harder than anyone in that other unit. They act like soldiers just like we do.
What is your take on this? Do you think they are asking for it by they way they are? Should anyone be called a POG? Should they be expected to maintain the same standard as everyone else in the Army? And what is their CSM doing when this is happening?
Posted in these groups: 
Combat Arms
Support
Combat Arms Support
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 148
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I'm under the impression that it took 12 troops to keep one grunt in the field during Vietnam. Does any higher up know if that statement still holds true? Has it gone up or down?
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CPT (Join to see)
I am sure it has gone up. Throw in some EWO and UAVs. Just look at a BCT. There really are not many fighting soldiers in it.
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SFC Mark Merino
I hear that. 30 scout helicopters in the air requires a lot of love.....from us "POG'"s....lol
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PV2 Abbott Shaull
Well when you consider that in 1990s era Heavy Division was around I think 14,000 - 16,000 troops when you add and subtract all the various attachments and detachment one would have before it would got to the front. Of that I think in the end 6,000-8,000 were actually classified as combat troops such as Infantry, Armor, Cavalry Scout, Engineer, and Medic. Rest were Support with many of them in direct support of the combat units, but not classified as combat MOS. Yeah, Armor, Armor Cavalry, Aviation, Artillery (SP), ADA (SP), and Mechanized Infantry units had long support column following them with fuel, ammo, mechanics, materials, fuel for them, and it goes on and on. Last figures I seen it was like 200 personnel to support one M1A1 tank in the field all the way back to up several levels of the chain of command.
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SSG (Join to see)
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/09/27/no_army_for_young_men
They cite a three to one ratio, I have heard the Air force is in the 70s and the WWII at 7 to one. I could see the ratio going down as we out source support operations.
They cite a three to one ratio, I have heard the Air force is in the 70s and the WWII at 7 to one. I could see the ratio going down as we out source support operations.
Soldiers these days need less muscle and more maturity, so why do we still focus on recruiting 18-year-olds?
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Here's the problem: there isn't a commander at any level other than a corps or post commander that is going to enforce 600-20 on an infantryman for calling someone a POG, in any capacity or context.
Example: I can write them up all day. I can walk that counseling up to their team leader, squad leader, platoon sergeant, first sergeant, platoon leader or commander, and they're just going to laugh me out of the room, calling me a POG too.
Today's infantry doesn't care that the branches rely on each other. They've convinced themselves they're so different from the rest of the army that the rules don't apply to them.
Most of the time they bring the most dishonor to the army out of anyone else.
Exclaimer: I of course am generalizing. If you know you're not one of these stereotypical infantrymen please don't take offense, but police up others.
Example: I can write them up all day. I can walk that counseling up to their team leader, squad leader, platoon sergeant, first sergeant, platoon leader or commander, and they're just going to laugh me out of the room, calling me a POG too.
Today's infantry doesn't care that the branches rely on each other. They've convinced themselves they're so different from the rest of the army that the rules don't apply to them.
Most of the time they bring the most dishonor to the army out of anyone else.
Exclaimer: I of course am generalizing. If you know you're not one of these stereotypical infantrymen please don't take offense, but police up others.
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SSgt (Join to see)
SFC, your sarcasm changes nothing. You attack me as a child would and it does not warrant a response.
My point still stands, the use of the word "POG" is in violation of AR 600-20 if used in a derogatory manner. It isn't about hurt feelings or a new ideology, it's about treating each other with respect.
If one of your infantrymen die on a patrol is their death worse than a mechanic's on a convoy?
Because when you belittle your fellow brothers and sisters in arms by talking down to them, you're not only disrespecting them, you're disrespecting the Army as a whole. You're bringing your high standard down.
My point still stands, the use of the word "POG" is in violation of AR 600-20 if used in a derogatory manner. It isn't about hurt feelings or a new ideology, it's about treating each other with respect.
If one of your infantrymen die on a patrol is their death worse than a mechanic's on a convoy?
Because when you belittle your fellow brothers and sisters in arms by talking down to them, you're not only disrespecting them, you're disrespecting the Army as a whole. You're bringing your high standard down.
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MSG (Join to see)
I inherently disagree with pretty much everything you say, thanks for the laugh anyway Sergeant, obviously this discussion would need to face to face. We live in two different worlds, maybe I am wrong...maybe you are wrong. Who knows?
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SFC Royce Williams
If your a POG you're a POG and you know it. If you're a dirty leg or a grunt you know it. If your a DAT you know it. Embrace the suck, do your job and drive on. Everyone of us at some point needs the other. Grunts need POGs to feed us pay us etc. we also need DATS to give us a little heavy support. Just like POGs need us to allow them to safely do the job they signed up to do. It's just a little trash talk by all mos's throughout the Army. Of course there is always that jack ass that just wants to hurt someone's feelings. And you have to take him/her with a grain of salt.
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PV2 Abbott Shaull
Okay, walking it up an Infantryman chain of command, listen to yourself for minute for a infantryman calling someone POG. Do you really see where the logic of why this assault is doom to fail from the word go, no matter what Army Regulation you want to use.
In most case is all is in the name of fun, in some case it does get out of hand. What in the military doesn't get out of hand. When it does get out of hand, it is because there are several members of the chain of command that have purposely in the present and/or past that are turning blind eye to it, which isn't right. Should it be stopped, Yes. No worse than bullying, but you have to change that attitude of the military entirely. I am not one to be Politically Correct by any means, everyone needs their ego deflated once in great while. Or to be corrected and explain why and how to do something. We are all human, that is how we all learn, people forget that, some people need things explain how and why to, not just shown for them to understand why we do it like this.
You don't have to agree with them, you just have to deal with it. You the one signed the contract. You got your assignment, do your mission, and work harder as hard as you can for them. If they are asking for something that is out of your control, then give them the paperwork to deal with to get what they want. Yeah they will complain, on one likes paperwork. It all part of the much larger game.
It nothing against anyone in general, when Infantry call anyone none 11 series POGs. Yet, if you let it offend you, if you let it show in how you deal with them, how you do your job, then you are reinforcing something that shouldn't even bother you.
Much like REMF, which is long lasting tradition to, but look at it from the Infantryman point of view, when you up on the frontline fighting and you get back to rear in Division HQ. You go Supply Depot and there sits all the stuff you need in last battle you were in and you find out it been sitting there since well before it. The SFC who running the Depot shop is holding on this to trade for something down the line on the 'blackmarket'. That is infuriating to the line the troops. Stuff like that always happen to certain extent. Or worse, they get delivered after the items were needed the most.
Like I said, it isn't right, but letting it get you frustrated and all work up isn't worth it either. It part of the oxymoron of live in the military and in the General in the America. Much like in the Military we all expect free health care and once out for medical condition we got will in. While people who have never serve are expected to pay out of pocket for their own health care. Same with retirement and what not. With that said to, they not signing a blank check to physical abuse our bodies, for sake of fighting for our Nations Freedom either. I don't think it right either, that every time the President and Congress can't get the fuck along that, it is the Military and Veterans as well as those on Social Security that they try to hold out as victims of their non sense, but that another story in itself.
In most case is all is in the name of fun, in some case it does get out of hand. What in the military doesn't get out of hand. When it does get out of hand, it is because there are several members of the chain of command that have purposely in the present and/or past that are turning blind eye to it, which isn't right. Should it be stopped, Yes. No worse than bullying, but you have to change that attitude of the military entirely. I am not one to be Politically Correct by any means, everyone needs their ego deflated once in great while. Or to be corrected and explain why and how to do something. We are all human, that is how we all learn, people forget that, some people need things explain how and why to, not just shown for them to understand why we do it like this.
You don't have to agree with them, you just have to deal with it. You the one signed the contract. You got your assignment, do your mission, and work harder as hard as you can for them. If they are asking for something that is out of your control, then give them the paperwork to deal with to get what they want. Yeah they will complain, on one likes paperwork. It all part of the much larger game.
It nothing against anyone in general, when Infantry call anyone none 11 series POGs. Yet, if you let it offend you, if you let it show in how you deal with them, how you do your job, then you are reinforcing something that shouldn't even bother you.
Much like REMF, which is long lasting tradition to, but look at it from the Infantryman point of view, when you up on the frontline fighting and you get back to rear in Division HQ. You go Supply Depot and there sits all the stuff you need in last battle you were in and you find out it been sitting there since well before it. The SFC who running the Depot shop is holding on this to trade for something down the line on the 'blackmarket'. That is infuriating to the line the troops. Stuff like that always happen to certain extent. Or worse, they get delivered after the items were needed the most.
Like I said, it isn't right, but letting it get you frustrated and all work up isn't worth it either. It part of the oxymoron of live in the military and in the General in the America. Much like in the Military we all expect free health care and once out for medical condition we got will in. While people who have never serve are expected to pay out of pocket for their own health care. Same with retirement and what not. With that said to, they not signing a blank check to physical abuse our bodies, for sake of fighting for our Nations Freedom either. I don't think it right either, that every time the President and Congress can't get the fuck along that, it is the Military and Veterans as well as those on Social Security that they try to hold out as victims of their non sense, but that another story in itself.
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I think there is a bg difference between being called "pog" and categorically insulted. I don't mind much the term, but it may well find a nice resting place next to terms like "wm" which lost their original endearment and turned sinister.
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Sgt Jennifer Mohler
WM's sinister meaning is "walking mattress". WM was consequently no longer an accepted term when the latter became prevalent.
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Back in my day, the Infantry called support personnel REMFs. Back then there were no FOBs or LSAs there were Fire Bases and LZs. REMFs rarely went outside the wire and spent their whole tours with 3 hots and a cot. The Infantry spent 99% of their tour in the Bush or Field. Field troops didn't polish boots, wear flak jackets, helmets or patches and simply didn't have to. The chain of command rarely went to the field unless it was 3,000 ft AGL. The short time our troops spent in the rear was one to two nights, and mostly one day & night and we pulled perimeter guard. We had just enough time to shower in air temperature water, shave, eat a meal, mostly c-ration because the chow usualy had flies in it and consumed as much alcohol as required to sleep through incoming. REMF hated the field troops and Field troop hated REMFs. Why? Several reasons, The Infantry didn't care asbout stupid rules and the command didn't enforce them. REMF walked around in starched fatigues, with patches, and shined boots and had every PX gadjet they could afford. The only PX item I had was a watch so I wouldn't get cheated on guard. I spent almost every night on either ambush or OP/LP far outside the wire. We had to deal with bugs, especially mosquitos, leaches, snakes and little to no sleep on the ground wet and dry and so dark you couldn't see your hand in front of you. You spent half the year soaked to the bone and the other half sweating, thirsty and swarms of bug biting you. REMFs had no idea of the misery the typical combat troop lived in. We could give a rat's ass what REMF thought of our dirty, stinking asses. Likewise, A POG or FOBIT lives pretty good on the FOB and only has the misery of guard duty above a T-wall and Bullshit leadership. The Combat Brigade Teams do not have respect for POGS either so quit sniveling POG! You got it made! I spent 5 year in Iraq as a armed DOD Contractor supporting the Coalition & MNF-I and have a general idea of the division between troops.
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When someone calls me a POG. (68W) Healthcare Specialist - You're Medic . You know what i tell them you can patch you're swiss chesse ass up yourself if you get shoot . Now it isn't that funny anymore is it ?
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SHUT UP POGS!!! LOL...someone had to say it. If you don't like being a POG, become a GRUNT.
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I think all military members should be held to the same expectations no matter what rank or branch. Without it the team breaks down. After all we are representing the USA whenever we are seen. Send a positive message to the people and you'll get a positive response the way I see it
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I have been support before...now I'm infantry and love nothing more! but it's still fun to call non infantry POG 's ....it's how the army has always worked...new gen soldiers need to chill lol it's all fun and games lol just like people say everyone in the infantry are dumb...not true but it's funny to them...oh well...lol doesn't bother me
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