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I find this to be humorous and also a legitimate issue. Recently I was at large training compound with multiple units there, basically a "mock up" of a FOB. So while in the latrine some soldiers, that must have been in one of the support units there were talking. They were complaining about the soldiers from the infantry unit calling them "POGs." And without missing a beat someone yells from a stall in the same building "Shut up POG." I couldn't help but to laugh.
I usually don't care what you do in the Army as long as you are doing your job and are maintaining your professionalism. These units that we were running into were far below the expectations of maintaining professionislism. There were so many uniform violations our CSM had to wear blinders where ever he walked so he could make it there without correcting every soldier on the way. If he did he would never make where ever he was going. I was just wearing ACUs. It was a bit chilly but I saw a soldier with the ECWCS gen III level 7 jacket, aka the marshmallow jacket. With some sort of toboggan cap that was not anything to do with the army. There was no uniformity and it seemed like no one in their unit cared.
I am not calling anyone a POG in this post. I have our support personnel in our unit that we view as peers. They were harder than anyone in that other unit. They act like soldiers just like we do.
What is your take on this? Do you think they are asking for it by they way they are? Should anyone be called a POG? Should they be expected to maintain the same standard as everyone else in the Army? And what is their CSM doing when this is happening?
I usually don't care what you do in the Army as long as you are doing your job and are maintaining your professionalism. These units that we were running into were far below the expectations of maintaining professionislism. There were so many uniform violations our CSM had to wear blinders where ever he walked so he could make it there without correcting every soldier on the way. If he did he would never make where ever he was going. I was just wearing ACUs. It was a bit chilly but I saw a soldier with the ECWCS gen III level 7 jacket, aka the marshmallow jacket. With some sort of toboggan cap that was not anything to do with the army. There was no uniformity and it seemed like no one in their unit cared.
I am not calling anyone a POG in this post. I have our support personnel in our unit that we view as peers. They were harder than anyone in that other unit. They act like soldiers just like we do.
What is your take on this? Do you think they are asking for it by they way they are? Should anyone be called a POG? Should they be expected to maintain the same standard as everyone else in the Army? And what is their CSM doing when this is happening?
Posted in these groups: 
Combat Arms
Support
Combat Arms Support
Edited 11 y ago
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 148
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I was on both sides of the fence. I have nothing but love for the infantry (especially when I was infantry...lol), but one thing that is for sure is that the infantry is only a part of the whole. Grunt over POG, airborne over leg, Apache over Kiowa, the list is endless. One team, one fight. An orchestra played without any one instrument will not sound the same. If you have to take pride in yourself at the expense of tearing others down which value does that fall under? The longer you stay in and the more exposure you have to the "big picture", the less willing they are to throw any derogatory term around. You don't train for a prize fight and decide which of your senses you don't need as you enter the ring.
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SPC Donald Moore
MSG David Johnson , I think that since it is a made up word, the difference in spelling from pog to poge is just a matter of choice. Before this article, I don't recall ever seeing the word written. I did hear it used, for example, "you are such a pog that you couldn't land-nav out of the exchange." Or, "I am going over to the exchange to get some pogie bait." The spellings are all mixed up because it is a verbal usage slang term.
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MSG David Johnson
The word Pouge, or Poge, or however you want to spell it came to my knowledge in just about every book I have read about Viet Nam.
I'm sure it was used before the war in Viet Nam but this is where I have seen it the most.
I'm sure it was used before the war in Viet Nam but this is where I have seen it the most.
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Even grunts argue over who is less of a POG: a rifleman driving the truck? The gunner? The dismounts?
We can all agree someone is more POG than us. If we run out of specialties we can always bash the other services. If we run out of services we can bash the civilians.
Let the grunts revel in their misery. They need it.
We can all agree someone is more POG than us. If we run out of specialties we can always bash the other services. If we run out of services we can bash the civilians.
Let the grunts revel in their misery. They need it.
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Sgt (Join to see)
Yes I am, if you are going to be in a warrior culture and you get super depressed for getting called a word, then maybe this was not the best choice for you. Everyone hoots and hollers when watching Full Metal Jacket, and says how "thats how we are a breed of our own." Now fast forward to being called a "POG" or "Boot" and sitting in the corner being all upset. Last time i checked, ISIS and other terrorist where not nice about wording but no one gets upset. So lets stop making big issues over such childish things, we have bigger issues on our hands then some set of words.
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SGM (Join to see)
It's possible that the worst of all is to have been a grunt for 15 years, and gotten so old that they retired me to a desk. I'm not a POG or Fobbit at heart, but that's what they made me into.
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I would have laughed as well if I heard "shut up POG" after hearing someone bitch about being called that. I think a good dose of the rivalry is a good thing. When we were given shit by the combat arms, we dished it right back. We told them that we would use small words and nothing over two syllables. Teach your Soldiers to be proud of the job that they joined up for. Teach them that when they get shit to give it right back. Teach them we are all a small cog in the big military machine and to be proud of that.
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1SG (Join to see)
As a former infantry and now maintenance POG, I completely agree. Looking back it seems I would call them POG's mostly out of jealousy for the material things the support units got.. IE hot chow, barracks, trucked in and out of the field... But I wouldn't have changed places with them for anything. The camaraderie was worth every minute of the "suck" and separating ourselves from them whether by calling them POG's or anything else only brought us closer together. Trust me, if you weren't sleeping in the field under a poncho in 50 degree weather with us.. you and everyone else was a POG..haha
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SSG (Join to see)
I've served in two branches. Love the rivalry, hell, I even make fun of myself at times. If you can't laugh at the bad, you'll never see the good.
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SSG (Join to see)
its just a big fun game we all have. I have nothing for respect for all the gun bunnies, and FO's and my 68W but there still POG's. While deployed they dont get it but when we return and they always have to get "certified" coinsidently when we are doing a 25 miler we just laugh and call them POG's and CM. good times we all need it, if we were never competitive than noone would want to better than the man next to them. At the end of the day and a good fight we high five them all and go back to talking shit.
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Here's my thoughts. As veterans were always talking about how people need to learn how to take a joke. Everything is so PC. Then some Grunt calls someone a POG and people flip their lid. Am I the only POG out there that just doesn't give a damn? Person other than Grunt. That's what it means. Yes, I'm a POG.
I guess for me, it depends on how it's used. If someone says, "Dude, you're really a POG." because I don't know a damn thing about how the infantry works, okay. You got me there. If someone tells me, "Who cares, you're just an f'n POG." That's when my ears perk up. It's not even that you called me a POG. It's that you implied my service means less than yours because you either chose to be in the infantry, or were simply voluntold at MEPS.
You can call me POG all day long, because I am. It doesn't bother me but, don't try to tell me that my service, my willingness to do a job that 99% of the population either can't do, or won't do, is some how less than yours.
I guess for me, it depends on how it's used. If someone says, "Dude, you're really a POG." because I don't know a damn thing about how the infantry works, okay. You got me there. If someone tells me, "Who cares, you're just an f'n POG." That's when my ears perk up. It's not even that you called me a POG. It's that you implied my service means less than yours because you either chose to be in the infantry, or were simply voluntold at MEPS.
You can call me POG all day long, because I am. It doesn't bother me but, don't try to tell me that my service, my willingness to do a job that 99% of the population either can't do, or won't do, is some how less than yours.
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You won't see any infantry calling medical personnel "POG" when they're coming in wounded.
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SFC Royce Williams
Combat medic definatly not a POG! The rest of them that work out of the hospital, raid the PC while we are on mission etc etc. yes you are POGs. Doesn't mean we don't love you guys for what you do though.
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SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S.
MAJ (Join to see)
SFC Royce Williams
Thank you for clearing that up as I was going to ask that question.
IMHO 91A/68W are the defiantly grunts.
If you don't think so .. try carrying your basic load AND the medic gear!
SFC Royce Williams
Thank you for clearing that up as I was going to ask that question.
IMHO 91A/68W are the defiantly grunts.
If you don't think so .. try carrying your basic load AND the medic gear!
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SGT (Join to see)
We always called our DOCs POGs. that being said god have mercy on the poor soul who wasnt one of ours who said it.
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POGs, REMFs, FOBITs, in the rear, with the gear, echelons above reality - been there, done it and proud of it! Just don't call me late for chow!
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To me being a POG is not just being a Person other than grunt. It is being soft. A POG is that guy complaining about that the shower aren't hot enough when they are in the field or about food isn't good when they are getting two hot meals a day. And wearing every layer of snivel gear they were ever issued when it is about 50 degrees outside. While the "Grunt" is laying a patrol base in the rain when it is in the 40s all night and doesn't complain. That is it is to me.
Or the guy that is so overweight that he can barely get into a Hummv and they have to special order his IOTV.
Just because you aren't infantry that doesn't make you a POG automatically.
Or the guy that is so overweight that he can barely get into a Hummv and they have to special order his IOTV.
Just because you aren't infantry that doesn't make you a POG automatically.
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CPT (Join to see)
Cpl John Dickinson There are some here. It is not how some would see it. But some are complaining that it is a derogatory term. I have seen a few there. Not many.
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SFC Royce Williams
It all depends in how the word is used. Grunt is considered by some to be derogatory. Except by grunts we know what we are. If you are Personnel Other than Grunt (POG) you know who you are and what your place is. We all talk trash. An have our entire lives. Brothers trash talking brothers. High school vs high school. Football vs soccer. Get over it and be secure in the job you do. Accept that your a POG and when I trash talk you for it trash talk me right back about the mudhole I'll be sleeping in tonight. We'll get along great.
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TSgt Daniel Wareham
In the Air Force we have Maintainers (Those who work on Aircraft) and we have Nonners (Those who don't).
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CPT (Join to see)
TSgt Daniel Wareham This is something that I never heard of until now in this discussion. I can't wait to call one of them a Nonner!
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Everyone is a POG to someone else. Years ago during a POG deployment to Baghdad, Iraq I had to travel to Asaliah in Qatar for a few days to conduct training. Arriving in country I had to put my rifle in the armory. Troops at Asaliah were authorized 3 beers a day and were authorized to go off base. It was funny hearing everyone complain about their conditions.
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Unnecessary whining. Get over it. Do your job and you'll get the respect you deserve when it matters the most.
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CPT (Join to see)
Like SFC Mark Merino, I have been on both sides of this issue.
When I was a young, hard-charging Airborne-Ranger Infantry officer, I professed that there were only two branches in the Army - Infantry and Support. I looked down on the Artillery, Armor, Signal, Military Police, etc, etc. and considered them "second class soldiers", I guess.
When I was branch-transferred to the Military Police Corps as a Captain, due to a combat arms disqualifying shoulder injury, I thought it was surely the kiss of death. I was now "one of them"... As it turns out, it was the best thing that ever happened to me. I loved what I did every day and found that soldiers are soldiers, regardless of the branch. I did, however, experience the "we/they" attitude between the combat arms and non-combat arms and thought it was inappropriate. I attributed it, however, to ignorance (as I had displayed when I was an Infantry officer).
I did find that I seemed to have a better working relationship with many combat arms officers than some of my Military Police peers experienced and I attribute it to my Infantry experience, as well as them "recognizing me as one of their own" due to the Expert Infantry Badge, Jump Wings and Ranger Tab they saw on my uniform.
There is no problem, in my opinion, with branch rivalry. Folks calling each other Grunts, Treadheads, Cannon-Cockers, Pigs, etc. (or Squids, Jarheads, and Zoomies, for that matter) is just part of military life.
Like SFC Mark Merino, I have been on both sides of this issue.
When I was a young, hard-charging Airborne-Ranger Infantry officer, I professed that there were only two branches in the Army - Infantry and Support. I looked down on the Artillery, Armor, Signal, Military Police, etc, etc. and considered them "second class soldiers", I guess.
When I was branch-transferred to the Military Police Corps as a Captain, due to a combat arms disqualifying shoulder injury, I thought it was surely the kiss of death. I was now "one of them"... As it turns out, it was the best thing that ever happened to me. I loved what I did every day and found that soldiers are soldiers, regardless of the branch. I did, however, experience the "we/they" attitude between the combat arms and non-combat arms and thought it was inappropriate. I attributed it, however, to ignorance (as I had displayed when I was an Infantry officer).
I did find that I seemed to have a better working relationship with many combat arms officers than some of my Military Police peers experienced and I attribute it to my Infantry experience, as well as them "recognizing me as one of their own" due to the Expert Infantry Badge, Jump Wings and Ranger Tab they saw on my uniform.
There is no problem, in my opinion, with branch rivalry. Folks calling each other Grunts, Treadheads, Cannon-Cockers, Pigs, etc. (or Squids, Jarheads, and Zoomies, for that matter) is just part of military life.
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LTC Paul Labrador
Sir, I don't think anyone has an issue with friendly ribbing. I think the issue is when there is real condescension involved.
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Capt (Join to see)
Gentlemen, there will always be general ribbing and joking. And when I was an infantry Marine, we talked as much crap as we could... But the litmus test was when the guys we called POGs were being messed with by soldiers or sailors, and we put a stop to it. It's like a family, I can make fun of my brother or sister, but if you aren't family, watch your step.
That being said, as soon as you left the US, and then went outside the wire, if you were an American fighter/driver/postal clerk/cook... You were a family member, no matter the branch.
It's just words. Political correctness is getting overbearing and ridiculous. People take things personally that are just asinine. If there is true malicious intent, if there is true violation of moral code and/ UCMJ, then there should be something done to intervene. Otherwise, folks need to harden up, be secure in knowing they are a vital part of this team, and keep doing their jobs.
That being said, as soon as you left the US, and then went outside the wire, if you were an American fighter/driver/postal clerk/cook... You were a family member, no matter the branch.
It's just words. Political correctness is getting overbearing and ridiculous. People take things personally that are just asinine. If there is true malicious intent, if there is true violation of moral code and/ UCMJ, then there should be something done to intervene. Otherwise, folks need to harden up, be secure in knowing they are a vital part of this team, and keep doing their jobs.
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SGT Stephen George
I don't know how things are at Jump School now ... .
But, in 1977, when I attended, it seems to me the Airborne School at Ft. Benning GA was pretty much psycho-socially structured so as to develop, nurture, and cultivate an Organizational Culture that not only embraced the "us" vs. "the legs" mentality ...but actually encouraged it.
Having said that, I don't believe there should be any doubt that at least one unintended consequence would be this dysfunctional Organizational Culture & mentality would morph and replicate throughout the services.
Organizational Culture develops from the top tier of the senior leadership and trickles down throughout the lower ranks.
But, in 1977, when I attended, it seems to me the Airborne School at Ft. Benning GA was pretty much psycho-socially structured so as to develop, nurture, and cultivate an Organizational Culture that not only embraced the "us" vs. "the legs" mentality ...but actually encouraged it.
Having said that, I don't believe there should be any doubt that at least one unintended consequence would be this dysfunctional Organizational Culture & mentality would morph and replicate throughout the services.
Organizational Culture develops from the top tier of the senior leadership and trickles down throughout the lower ranks.
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