Posted on Nov 8, 2015
Recalling a life event that occured 50 years ago using a word closely resembling what occured, is it a lie if you didnt know the difference?
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If you were recalling a significant life event that happened to you over 50 years before and you used a synonym or something close to describe part of the event, does that constitute a lie if you didnt know the difference (Scholarship versus appointment; which means tuition, room, and board)? Or does this constitute a witch hunt as Dr. Carson has stated?
WASHINGTON, Nov 6 (Reuters) - Republican presidential candidate Ben Carson's recollection of being offered a scholarship to the prestigious U.S. Military Academy at West Point was questioned on Friday, potentially damaging the credibility of the 64-year-old retired neurosurgeon.
Also on Friday, Carson's account of how he attempted to stab a friend in his troubled youth came under renewed scrutiny.
Carson, a favorite of conservative activists, who is tied with Donald Trump at the top of Republican primary polls a year before the November 2016 presidential election, has often recounted both tales from his 1990 autobiography on the campaign trail, as he trumpets his rise from poverty in inner-city Detroit to the highest echelons of medicine.
On Friday, Carson's campaign said he never sought admission to West Point, while Carson himself gave a slightly different account of the stabbing incident, describing the boy he lunged at as a close relative instead of a friend.
"These are little things that get at his credibility," said John Feehery, a Republican strategist who is not working for any of the 2016 presidential candidates. "He's coming in there as an outsider who is honest and a breath of fresh air. If his whole life story is undermined by these little inaccuracies it could have a negative effect."
Carson told Fox News his account of the West Point scholarship offer "could have been more clarified." He is planning to participate in a live interview on Sunday morning on CBS's "Face The Nation," where he will likely face tough questions.
"Voters care about candidate integrity," said Laura Stoker, a political science professor at the University of California, Berkeley. "But people - especially those who already favor Carson - will resist allegations until information is definitive."
Carson's supporters seemed unperturbed, and doubted whether the candidate had been inaccurate.
"If I had a general come up to me when I was 17 years old and try to convince me to go to West Point and he told me my expenses would be paid, I don't think it would be so far-fetched to think he offered me a scholarship," said Warren Galkin, 86, of Warwick, Rhode Island, who has given money to a political action committee supporting Carson's campaign.
WEST POINT SCHOLARSHIP
In his autobiography, "Gifted Hands," Carson wrote that as a high school student he dined with General William Westmoreland in 1969. "Later I was offered a full scholarship to West Point," he wrote, saying that he turned it down. "As overjoyed as I felt to be offered such a scholarship, I wasn't really tempted."
Carson's campaign said on Friday that his grades and conversations with officials of the ROTC, which provides preliminary military training for students interested in becoming officers, constituted a de facto acceptance to the academy, which provides full scholarships to all of its students. But it said Carson never actually applied or was admitted to West Point.
"His Senior Commander was in touch with West Point and told Dr. Carson he could get in, Dr. Carson did not seek admission," Carson's campaign spokesman Doug Watts told Reuters in an email.
"Dr. Carson, as the leading ROTC student in Detroit, was told by his Commanders that he could get an Appointment to the Academy," Watts said. "He never said he was admitted or even applied."
West Point on Friday said there was no record of Carson completing an application for admission. It is possible someone nominated him for the academy, but that would only have been an early step in the multi-part process of admission.
"Candidate files where admission/acceptance was not sought are retained for three years; therefore we cannot confirm whether anyone during that time period was nominated to West Point if they chose not to pursue completion of the application process," West Point spokeswoman Theresa Brinkerhoff said in an email to Reuters.
"No one can enter the academy without completing the entire admission process," she added.
The differing accounts of Carson's West Point scholarship were first reported by political news website Politico, in a story headlined "Ben Carson admits fabricating West Point scholarship."
Carson's campaign contested that interpretation.
"The Politico story is an outright lie," Watts said in an email to Reuters. "The campaign never 'admitted to anything.'"
CARSON HITS BACK
The fracas over West Point came only hours after Carson attacked the media for questioning his accounts of a violent past.
"This is a bunch of lies," Carson told CNN on Friday. "This is what it is, it's a bunch of lies attempting, you know, to say that I'm lying about my history. I think it's pathetic."
Carson, who is popular with evangelical voters, often speaks on the campaign trail about flashes of violence during his youth, casting the lessons he learned from that period as evidence he has the strength of character to be president.
In his autobiography, the renowned brain surgeon wrote that as a teen, he tried to stab a friend named Bob in the stomach with a knife, but the boy's belt buckle blocked the knife.
On Thursday on the campaign trail, when pressed by reporters about the incident and also in an interview with Fox News, Carson said that Bob's name, along with some other names in the autobiography, were pseudonyms that he used to protect the privacy of the people he was writing about.
He described Bob in the book as a friend and classmate. In the Fox News interview and on CNN, Carson said the boy was a "close relative."
WASHINGTON, Nov 6 (Reuters) - Republican presidential candidate Ben Carson's recollection of being offered a scholarship to the prestigious U.S. Military Academy at West Point was questioned on Friday, potentially damaging the credibility of the 64-year-old retired neurosurgeon.
Also on Friday, Carson's account of how he attempted to stab a friend in his troubled youth came under renewed scrutiny.
Carson, a favorite of conservative activists, who is tied with Donald Trump at the top of Republican primary polls a year before the November 2016 presidential election, has often recounted both tales from his 1990 autobiography on the campaign trail, as he trumpets his rise from poverty in inner-city Detroit to the highest echelons of medicine.
On Friday, Carson's campaign said he never sought admission to West Point, while Carson himself gave a slightly different account of the stabbing incident, describing the boy he lunged at as a close relative instead of a friend.
"These are little things that get at his credibility," said John Feehery, a Republican strategist who is not working for any of the 2016 presidential candidates. "He's coming in there as an outsider who is honest and a breath of fresh air. If his whole life story is undermined by these little inaccuracies it could have a negative effect."
Carson told Fox News his account of the West Point scholarship offer "could have been more clarified." He is planning to participate in a live interview on Sunday morning on CBS's "Face The Nation," where he will likely face tough questions.
"Voters care about candidate integrity," said Laura Stoker, a political science professor at the University of California, Berkeley. "But people - especially those who already favor Carson - will resist allegations until information is definitive."
Carson's supporters seemed unperturbed, and doubted whether the candidate had been inaccurate.
"If I had a general come up to me when I was 17 years old and try to convince me to go to West Point and he told me my expenses would be paid, I don't think it would be so far-fetched to think he offered me a scholarship," said Warren Galkin, 86, of Warwick, Rhode Island, who has given money to a political action committee supporting Carson's campaign.
WEST POINT SCHOLARSHIP
In his autobiography, "Gifted Hands," Carson wrote that as a high school student he dined with General William Westmoreland in 1969. "Later I was offered a full scholarship to West Point," he wrote, saying that he turned it down. "As overjoyed as I felt to be offered such a scholarship, I wasn't really tempted."
Carson's campaign said on Friday that his grades and conversations with officials of the ROTC, which provides preliminary military training for students interested in becoming officers, constituted a de facto acceptance to the academy, which provides full scholarships to all of its students. But it said Carson never actually applied or was admitted to West Point.
"His Senior Commander was in touch with West Point and told Dr. Carson he could get in, Dr. Carson did not seek admission," Carson's campaign spokesman Doug Watts told Reuters in an email.
"Dr. Carson, as the leading ROTC student in Detroit, was told by his Commanders that he could get an Appointment to the Academy," Watts said. "He never said he was admitted or even applied."
West Point on Friday said there was no record of Carson completing an application for admission. It is possible someone nominated him for the academy, but that would only have been an early step in the multi-part process of admission.
"Candidate files where admission/acceptance was not sought are retained for three years; therefore we cannot confirm whether anyone during that time period was nominated to West Point if they chose not to pursue completion of the application process," West Point spokeswoman Theresa Brinkerhoff said in an email to Reuters.
"No one can enter the academy without completing the entire admission process," she added.
The differing accounts of Carson's West Point scholarship were first reported by political news website Politico, in a story headlined "Ben Carson admits fabricating West Point scholarship."
Carson's campaign contested that interpretation.
"The Politico story is an outright lie," Watts said in an email to Reuters. "The campaign never 'admitted to anything.'"
CARSON HITS BACK
The fracas over West Point came only hours after Carson attacked the media for questioning his accounts of a violent past.
"This is a bunch of lies," Carson told CNN on Friday. "This is what it is, it's a bunch of lies attempting, you know, to say that I'm lying about my history. I think it's pathetic."
Carson, who is popular with evangelical voters, often speaks on the campaign trail about flashes of violence during his youth, casting the lessons he learned from that period as evidence he has the strength of character to be president.
In his autobiography, the renowned brain surgeon wrote that as a teen, he tried to stab a friend named Bob in the stomach with a knife, but the boy's belt buckle blocked the knife.
On Thursday on the campaign trail, when pressed by reporters about the incident and also in an interview with Fox News, Carson said that Bob's name, along with some other names in the autobiography, were pseudonyms that he used to protect the privacy of the people he was writing about.
He described Bob in the book as a friend and classmate. In the Fox News interview and on CNN, Carson said the boy was a "close relative."
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 49
Dr. Carson was the top ROTC student in the City of Detroit. In that role he was invited to meet General Westmoreland. He believes it was at a banquet. He can’t remember with specificity their brief conversation but it centered around Dr. Carson’s performance as ROTC City Executive Officer. He was introduced to folks from West Point by his ROTC Supervisors. They told him they could help him get an appointment based on his grades and performance in ROTC. He considered it but in the end did not seek admission. I find this troubling as Obama was smoking weed and doing coke at Occidental College and received financial aid as a foreign student from Indonesia as an undergraduate. Obama was awarded a fellowship for foreign students from the Fulbright Foundation Scholarship program. To qualify, for the scholarship, a student must claim foreign citizenship. Yet going to Yale and becoming a brain surgeon is a problem.
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SGM (Join to see)
SPC David Stephenson, Very interesting, thank you for your contribution to the thread, sir.
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I've heard veterans call and defend Ben Carson. The letter they send out says Scolarship not appointment. And does it really matter? He did not say he applied. I'm more concerned with Hillary blaming an American citizen of what happen in Bengazi. Sending seven officers to perk walk him and imprison him. And she told the same story to the UN.
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I don't think the issue i scholarship vs appointment. I think he was trying to show acceptance at West Point because it is a tremendous honor that not many young people are able to achieve.
My gut suggests that he was never offered anything, formally or informally to do with West Point. One meeting at a crowded dinner that about medal of honor winners (the one time Carson and Westmorland met) didn't likely result in anything more than a "you should apply" suggestion, no matter how impressive you are.
My gut suggests that he was never offered anything, formally or informally to do with West Point. One meeting at a crowded dinner that about medal of honor winners (the one time Carson and Westmorland met) didn't likely result in anything more than a "you should apply" suggestion, no matter how impressive you are.
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For something to be a lie, there must an intention to mislead.
I wouldn't worry about Ben Carson. He is not going to be the GOP nominee and if he is, He'll make George McGovern's finish against Nixon seem a photo-finish.
Walt
I wouldn't worry about Ben Carson. He is not going to be the GOP nominee and if he is, He'll make George McGovern's finish against Nixon seem a photo-finish.
Walt
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The problem is that these stories are coming from his autobiography, "Gifted Hands", published in 1992. There's a big difference between a 50 year gap and a 20 year gap.
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SGM (Join to see)
CW4 Guy Butler, thank you for your response. Yes, there is 10 years difference to be precise, sir, but even 20 years ago sometimes gives me fits. Someone posted recently who was the first presidential candidate you voted for and I honestly had to think for a moment if it was ’88 or ’92.
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It sounds like Dr. Carson has some memory issues. The media will take this make a giant mountain out off tandem attempt to destroy the man
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SGM Mikel Dawson
SSgt Alex Robinson - I like this bold challenge to the media, with no reply: http://www.chicksonright.com/ben-carson-goes-nuclear-on-reporters-for-perpetuating-politicos-lies/
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I think that most, if not all, of us do or could have the same problem.
Is saying something that is incorrect, but, is how you perceived it at the time a lie?
Then we are all liars.
Is saying something that is incorrect, but, is how you perceived it at the time a lie?
Then we are all liars.
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It is a witch hunt. The left is trying to take down a leader in the primary race.
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I've heard military academy recruiters use the word "scholarship" when talking to high schoolers. Some of their own material uses the word. Dr. Carson is probably telling the truth...
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SGM (Join to see)
TSgt Terry Crihfield, Yes, sir, while recruiting in Pennsylvania for the US Army we used different terminology to make things more relatable not just for the Future Soldiers, but also for their parental guardians. Excellent point, sir.
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This guys is probably the most honest person running for pres. Look at how the media overlooks all the outright crimes Hillary committed and the dead servicemen she abandoned. This is such a stupid issue but the leftist media is struggling to find dirt on Ben and they are desperate because their girl Hillary has caused such a mess even they are having a hard time keeping it quiet.
Sorry media its a party change not just a presidential change coming next year no matter how much misinformation you put out there.
Sorry media its a party change not just a presidential change coming next year no matter how much misinformation you put out there.
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