Posted on Jul 12, 2015
Recent study finds that more guns does not lead to less crime. What are your thoughts on the issue?
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A high-profile shooting, like the June 17 crime that left dead nine members of a historically black church in Charleston, South Carolina, is typically followed by calls for greater gun control, along with counter arguments that the best way to stop gun crimes is with more guns.
"The one thing that would have at least ameliorated the horrible situation in Charleston would have been that if somebody in that prayer meeting had a conceal carry or there had been either an off-duty policeman or an on-duty policeman, somebody with the legal authority to carry a firearm and could have stopped the shooter," presidential candidate Mike Huckabee said in a Fox News interview on June 19.
A new study, however, throws cold water on the idea that a well-armed populace deters criminals or prevents murders. Instead, higher ownership of guns in a state is linked to more firearm robberies, more firearm assaults and more homicide in general.
"We found no support for the hypothesis that owning more guns leads to a drop or a reduction in violent crime," said study researcher Michael Monuteaux, an epidemiologist and professor of pediatrics at Harvard Medical School. "Instead, we found the opposite."
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/guns-dont-deter-crime-study-finds/ar-AAcDdis
"The one thing that would have at least ameliorated the horrible situation in Charleston would have been that if somebody in that prayer meeting had a conceal carry or there had been either an off-duty policeman or an on-duty policeman, somebody with the legal authority to carry a firearm and could have stopped the shooter," presidential candidate Mike Huckabee said in a Fox News interview on June 19.
A new study, however, throws cold water on the idea that a well-armed populace deters criminals or prevents murders. Instead, higher ownership of guns in a state is linked to more firearm robberies, more firearm assaults and more homicide in general.
"We found no support for the hypothesis that owning more guns leads to a drop or a reduction in violent crime," said study researcher Michael Monuteaux, an epidemiologist and professor of pediatrics at Harvard Medical School. "Instead, we found the opposite."
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/guns-dont-deter-crime-study-finds/ar-AAcDdis
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 140
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I think studies on correlation between gun ownership and violence miss the point entirely, whether they find positive or negative correlation. A gun is a method of violence, not the violence itself.
SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
True, and the people responsible for that violence are NOT being punished are held responsible even though written law calls for that. The courts, and prosecutors have both failed in that respect to do their jobs and protect the rest of us and support the Police and NOT the criminals. When Criminals are afforded more rights way beyond reasonable guarantees to a fair impartial trial than You and me as citizens I see a real problem. Most owner of firearms are NEVER involved in any violent criminal activity but become more frequent victims as those that are keep getting away with it through failure of the courts and government to protect the public and impose proper penalty and jail upon the criminals who will continues to operate if they aren't stopped !
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SSgt James Kirkpatrick
PV2 Larry Sellnow - How about when a felon is in possession of a firearm illegally we actually sentence him/her to prison, rather than dropping the firearm charge, as DAs do ALL the time...? It would certainly be a good start if we actually followed the laws already on the books...
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SSG Bill McCoy
Elimination of guns, by LAW-ABIDING citizens would only resullt in more victimes of criminals who don't and won't obey any new gun laws or gun restrictions.
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SSG Bill McCoy
PV2 Larry Sellnow - I can legally buy a long-gun and give it to whomever I want so long as they are not restricted from owning/possessing a firearm. Rittenhouse's case is not an example of a straw purchase in the context of what actually occurred.
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Pretty typical "study" conducted by the Medical community, which has a definite bias against firearms, and therefore consistently "cherry-picks" their data and subject groups to get the answers the AMA wants to see.
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I'm actually pro-second amendment, but I do feel that Americans have a radical, bordering obsessive, stance on gun legality by comparison with the rest of the world. I did feel safer through my 5 years in Germany, and I believe that the stats would back that feeling up. Please, don't tell me to go live there. I'm a patriot. I love and proudly serve my country. I own and support gun ownership, but let's get real folks. It is not a coincidence that of 1st world countries, America has the highest per capita firearm-related death rate and also a higher per capita number of guns than ANY country in the world, including the war zones we all talk about, at more than 1 per person. That's per capita! Amazing considering the size of our population.
Our situation is not the same as Germany, because their country was swept for guns both by the Nazi party and by the Allies after the war. By comparison, we can't hope to actually get all of the guns off of the streets. So, in a way we're damned if we do and damned if we don't. There's no clear solution to the problem, but we should certainly do what we can to limit gun ownership to responsible citizens.
I'll tell you this though, when the zombpocalypse comes, there's no more prepared society in the world!
Our situation is not the same as Germany, because their country was swept for guns both by the Nazi party and by the Allies after the war. By comparison, we can't hope to actually get all of the guns off of the streets. So, in a way we're damned if we do and damned if we don't. There's no clear solution to the problem, but we should certainly do what we can to limit gun ownership to responsible citizens.
I'll tell you this though, when the zombpocalypse comes, there's no more prepared society in the world!
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SP6 Peter Kreutzfeldt
I was born and raised for 16 years in Germany. it's a different culture and has different ideologies when it comes to laws, rights and wrongs. Since entering the US in 62 I have seen a steady deterioration for human values. I came back from Vietnam in 70 and was amazed how much my America had changed. Please don't get me wrong, there are so many great, safe and secure places in the US, but I feel that any city with population over 250,000 is out of control and the political whores that run those cities could care less about what takes place. Add to this dilemma an uninformed population voting for leadership and you have the making of a system destine to go broke.
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SGT C Reed
I was posted in Egypt, Pakistan, Kuwait, and Jordan. I am fully aware of the terrorist threats in those places, but I NEVER worried about my kids being killed in school until we came back to the US. Why? Because this is the ONLY place in the world where we allow these crimes to happen because we allow civilians to own military-style weapons and as much ammo as their frigntened, hateful little souls desire. Yeah, getting weapons off the street may be hard, but it isn't impossible. Buybacks, requiring massive insurance, mandatory imprisonment for those committing gun crimes (to include domestic violence and parents who give kids weapons resulting in harm, etc), greatly reducing the accessibility of ammo, etc. will help. Hit owners hard in the wallet. It will take time, but lives will be saved.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/interactive/2023/ar-15-force-mass-shootings/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/interactive/2023/ar-15-force-mass-shootings/
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SGT Scott Moreland
SGT C Reed - hard stop. It wasn't too long ago that you could drive to school with a loaded hunting rifle to go hunting after school. The real problem is the moral corruption of the country and liberals who won't prosecute. Your solution makes about as much sense as buying back cars because a few drunk drivers caused people to be killed. The problem is the human beings and until we change our society to be more civilized and upright then we will continue to have the same problems of morality issues and lack of value for human life. It has to be a cultural shift rather than monetary one. Jingle bell, dog gets food, jingle bell, dog gets food, jingle bell, dog is drooling in anticipation of food. Get it? Cultural shift by making people hungry for doing the right thing. Backed by science.
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More guns do not lead to less crime, but that does not translate into less guns lead to less crime. There is a positive correlation between availability of guns and lower violent crime, if only because the criminal chooses a time when he is less likely to be confronted.
But I think the better point is that there is no close relationship between guns and crime, which of course suggests that gun control laws have little to no effect on crime. (And that's what we see, unless we see the reverse when more laws means more crime as in Chicago and Washington D.C.)
That means we are looking in the wrong direction, and we are looking there because so many politicians have a political investment in the outcome that may have nothing at all to do with making the nation safer, but has a lot to do with their personal philosophy.
Maybe we should be looking at mental illness. Maybe we should look for the causes of despair and hopelessness in our society. Maybe we should expect everyone to do something for the good of the country. An old saying is that you don't have the right to steer the ship if you haven't pulled on an oar - maybe we could learn from this.
Maybe we could remember that every weekend in Chicago more homicides are committed than any of the mass shootings in our history. Maybe there are more important problems to deal with and solve.
Maybe we just need to tell the fanatics to take a hike and see if people can discuss the issues and arrive at a non-political and non-partisan solution.
But I won't be holding my breath waiting for any sign of actual thought from the American public. As a group, we have the attention span of a four-year old.
But I think the better point is that there is no close relationship between guns and crime, which of course suggests that gun control laws have little to no effect on crime. (And that's what we see, unless we see the reverse when more laws means more crime as in Chicago and Washington D.C.)
That means we are looking in the wrong direction, and we are looking there because so many politicians have a political investment in the outcome that may have nothing at all to do with making the nation safer, but has a lot to do with their personal philosophy.
Maybe we should be looking at mental illness. Maybe we should look for the causes of despair and hopelessness in our society. Maybe we should expect everyone to do something for the good of the country. An old saying is that you don't have the right to steer the ship if you haven't pulled on an oar - maybe we could learn from this.
Maybe we could remember that every weekend in Chicago more homicides are committed than any of the mass shootings in our history. Maybe there are more important problems to deal with and solve.
Maybe we just need to tell the fanatics to take a hike and see if people can discuss the issues and arrive at a non-political and non-partisan solution.
But I won't be holding my breath waiting for any sign of actual thought from the American public. As a group, we have the attention span of a four-year old.
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SGM (Join to see)
Concern about the "loophole" is ridiculous. The number 2 illegal import into the US (after drugs) is illegal weapons, for example fully automatics and sawed off concealable. Pretending that closing the gun show "loophole" is going to slow criminals getting guns is a pipe dream.
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CPT (Join to see)
PV2 Larry Sellnow: If you spent more time aggravating criminals and less time attacking lawful owners of firearms, you might possibly succeed at lowering crime.
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SFC Ralph E Kelley
SGM (Join to see) - Pretty sure PV2 sellnow meant the peaceful Antifa and BLM protesters that burned down cities. The current shoplifting mobs are in the same class.
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These Cowards that commit these crimes alway's go to Gun free Zones. So your Study is not correct! Why not do a study on the States and Cities that have tougher Gun laws against the open carry States and Cities.
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It's not about quantity, it's about quality. Put a single gun in the hands of someone well trained in the use of a firearm, and respectful of the weapon, and you have defense. Put a bunch of weapons in the hands of someone that is not well trained and negligent, and that is an accident waiting to happen.
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The gun is merely a tool. Grant you, it's capable of inflicting more destruction than say a knife, but so does a pickup truck through a crowd of people. As long as we focus on the tools and not the individual, nothing will get corrected.
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CPT (Join to see)
Give me a moment while I fetch my Ford 1500. Then we'll see real destruction! Go ahead and bring your pistol. :)
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Simple numbers say that the more weapon around increase the probability of those weapons getting into the hands of those that should not have them.
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SP6 Peter Kreutzfeldt
After WWII millions of GI's came home and many of them had captured guns in the duffel. No murders were recorded, must have been a grander sort of people than we have now
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I think that what is most often missed or glossed over in the entire debate concerning guns is (what I think) a very simple premise: The violence we see is not so much a "gun problem", as it is a "heart problem". If as a society we remove personal responsibility, if we remove the sanctity of life, if it's always someone else's fault and our moral compass just spins...then I think that removing guns would just mean we'd resort to using knives and blunt instruments to kill each other. Messier, but the result is the same. Anyway, just my opinion.
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TSgt William Cramer
Spot on. I am retired and living in Japan. There are many crimes committed here with knives. It is not the instrument, but the mind of the user.
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SP6 Richard Kellar
In fact if a youngster is forced to accept the negative side of his/her bahavior it will likely subside raidly. Even peers can correct behavior with a good ass kickin.
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I take these "reports / studies" with a very small grain of salt. Anyone can and will manipulate to get their desired results then report only what they want to direct opinion. What I will put faith in is actual live reports from victims or credible witnesses. Take the defensive shooting in White Settlement church in 2022 where armed individuals stopped a shooting in progress and prevented a man with evil intent form inflicting more death and injury. Sadly 2 people died but so did the murderer. Good men with guns did work.
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