Posted on Apr 12, 2014
Shaved heads in basic training; is this mandatory? If it is, then why and why only for males?
279K
6.75K
1.02K
615
615
0
So I was in basic training land today to help with some medical stuff. I couldn't help but noticed all the shaved heads all over the place and then the females with 20 ft of hair. In an era where we are screaming equal treatment; is this equal?I am also wondering why does a new private have to get his head shaved in the first place? Why not just a haircut within Army Standards?
Have the lines between male and female been erased? Are they trying to be erased or are we picking and choosing which ones we want to erase? Why does a male soldier have no choice in keeping his hair but a female does? If you love Liberty you will vote below.
ADDED: Could this be considered a form of hazing with the crackdown on hazing since this is obviously not a requirement but more of a tradition? I'm not saying I think it is I'm just asking the question. If it's not required and it doesn't apply to everyone.
*****UPDATED******
Well, well, well what do we have here?
http://www.navytimes.com/story/military/careers/2015/01/08/rtc-boot-camp-haircuts-navy/21439483/
Have the lines between male and female been erased? Are they trying to be erased or are we picking and choosing which ones we want to erase? Why does a male soldier have no choice in keeping his hair but a female does? If you love Liberty you will vote below.
ADDED: Could this be considered a form of hazing with the crackdown on hazing since this is obviously not a requirement but more of a tradition? I'm not saying I think it is I'm just asking the question. If it's not required and it doesn't apply to everyone.
*****UPDATED******
Well, well, well what do we have here?
http://www.navytimes.com/story/military/careers/2015/01/08/rtc-boot-camp-haircuts-navy/21439483/
Edited >1 y ago
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 458
Nope not interested in seeing bald women running around. Need to have some differences.
(27)
(0)
SSG Jeffrey Monk
CPT (Join to see) - Looks stupid to who? My hair was long before the Army and is long now that I'm retired and no female I've dated had or have had an issue with it. You don't think it hasn't taken several years for my hair to grow out or the fact I felt my hair looked stupid the whole time? As for bald women that's your opinion no one wants to see that.
(1)
(0)
A1C Lisa Casserly
CPT (Join to see) - Not to mention that the returning hair would be IMPOSSIBLE to control! What a mess. So, no. Leave women with their hair the way it is. As long as you keep it up and off your collar, its all fine.
(0)
(0)
SPC Kenneth James
Say louder Top I think the guys hair is covering his ears you might have to yell some lol I'm with you Top
(1)
(0)
The tradition of the shaved head during Basic/IET/OSUT has been around longer than I was a member of the Army. It was done to help eliminate any and all individualism within the ranks of the trainees, and prior to the elimination of the WAC, the Army's trainees were all male. Now, since we are becoming an all inclusive Army, with women being allowed to possibly join the combat arms MOSs, I feel that we either change the practice to mirror AR 670-1 standards, or subject the females to the same shaving of the heads as males.
(22)
(0)
CPT William Jones
SPC Jimmy Rooks I - Folks are screaming that all Service members be treated equally until it becomes time to be a soldier. Then different people want exceptions for different things Either all should be treated the same, especially with outward appearance and meeting qualifications standards for job etc there may be room for some different standards for different MOS.
(0)
(0)
A1C Lisa Casserly
CPT William Jones - And a lot of the people screaming about equality for soldiers ARE NOT and NEVER HAVE BEEN enlisted. Maybe this shows my "elitist" generational military family history, but I feel that if they are not going to step up and sign up, then they should just keep their noses out of "our" business. I mean, it doesn't concern them.
(0)
(0)
Women aren't even allowed to shave their heads. 1/4" it's the minimum permitted by AR 670-1. Why? I have no idea. Here I am, in violation of AR 670-1, at my ranger graduation.
Should women shave their heads for BCT? I don't know that they should. Everyone has to maintain a hairstyle in accordance with regulation, but one that requires no external maintenance, because there's no time for it. So women keep their hair in a bun or do some ridiculous pinning/ gluing job with hairspray and gel, but are never allowed to get a trim. Men usually have hairstyles that require maintenance- bimonthly trims. There's no time for that, so the Army goes for expediency: shaved heads for males, zero hair care for females.
Regardless, before you start demanding that women shave their heads, remember that the Army actually forbids it by regulation. (Most women who go to ranger just violate the regulations so they don't stand out at the school).
Should women shave their heads for BCT? I don't know that they should. Everyone has to maintain a hairstyle in accordance with regulation, but one that requires no external maintenance, because there's no time for it. So women keep their hair in a bun or do some ridiculous pinning/ gluing job with hairspray and gel, but are never allowed to get a trim. Men usually have hairstyles that require maintenance- bimonthly trims. There's no time for that, so the Army goes for expediency: shaved heads for males, zero hair care for females.
Regardless, before you start demanding that women shave their heads, remember that the Army actually forbids it by regulation. (Most women who go to ranger just violate the regulations so they don't stand out at the school).
(16)
(0)
SGT Frank-John Limiero
However the personal achievement, sorry I don't expect that you could be a physically reliable combat replacement for male Rangers. The Army has gone to far...
(0)
(0)
SGT (Join to see)
That opinion and four quarters should be enough to get you a quarter pounder with cheese off the dollar menu.
(0)
(0)
Jerry Swetlow
if women can not shave there heads what happens if a women who works around flame or spinning machinery hazards wants to shave her head for safety reasons ?
(0)
(0)
When new recruits join the military they come from all walks of life. It is very difficult to teach people that in essence we are all the same. This is demonstrated by the myriad view and comments listed below to your question. However the tradition of shaving heads is a way of showing new soldier to look past thier differences and come together as a team to acxomplish the mission. This is part of what makes our military the greatest in the world.
(15)
(0)
PFC Pamala (Hall ) Foster
Appearance-AR 670-1. We are a team and needs to be remembered. Active, Guard,Reserve,Veterans...Females and Males are different and rightfully so. Some have the skill to go SF,Spec Ops, but some are more office, legal,Medical so be you-but follow the rules too. Getting sand out of hair gel is HELL ladies-I know, so maybe short hair while in a good to have, because field exercises are hell. And heat cooks it into hair fast and damaged hair is needing to be cut and short.
(1)
(0)
SSG Jacen Black
People keep saying to show Soldiers... but it's obvious it's only some Soldiers. So it's not uniformity. It's some uniformity.
(0)
(0)
I apologize in advance for my rant.
If getting your head shaved in basic is a deal breaker, then maybe that individual shouldn't be joining in the first place.
With all the other training we had to squeeze into the schedule, I'm glad I didn't have to figure out a time to get my hair cut every week.
Every person has a certain amount of "Army" stuff they have to do that does not pertain to their MOS, but we do these things because we enjoy the service or just need the service. If you can't go with out hair for 4 months, then maybe these other little sacrifices you have to make are going to be too much also.
(15)
(0)
SGT Shon D. Hill
Amen SSG WOODS, I disagreed on hazing question with a LTC and SSG in good taste I think :) LTC response tactful but I didn't understand his response, it was a PhD level vocabulary and grammar, so my 6 years of college not enough! If you would read it and tell me your thoughts I need help Sergeant :) TY so much! Doc Shon Hill
(0)
(0)
(2)
(0)
SSG Jeffrey Monk
SSG V. Michelle Woods - Sure because your hair is more special than mine. I spent 4 years growing it out before the Army and the last 5 years growing it back out.
(0)
(0)
SGT Jodi WittBailey
Why are we debating what is NOT in 670-1? It isn't a regulations therefore we should shut our pie holes. Much of this conversation is degenerating into which sex has it worse. Useless inflammatory trash.
(1)
(0)
Maybe this SSG needs a skirt to feel equal. NCOs quit whining about dumb crap, grab your Janes and Joes, go into the treeline and actually conduct some training.
(13)
(0)
When I went to basic (Fort Leonard Wood 1995) there was a female recruit who had very short hair, a buzz cut. They made her grow it out, said it was "faddish" . I think the reality was they couldn't easily tell she was a female from any distance. Imagine trying to figure out at any given time which trainees are female because they all have shaved heads. Much harder to make sure no fratenization is happening among the recruits. Females having hair makes it easier for the Cadre to track everybody.
(13)
(0)
CPO Mark Robinson
When I joined the navy in 1979 a shaved head for men was considered faddish and it was unauthorized (you actually get a "Buzz Cut" in boat camp, not razor shaved). In the late 80s they authorized it for those with male pattern baldness and eventually to all personnel.
(1)
(0)
SSG Robert Burns: Got my head buzzed at the reception station at Fort Jackson in late OCT69. Went through BCT and AIT there, and was starting to finally starting to look somewhat human again. Got to Fort Benning on the weekend before jump school started, and of course, after the Black Hats yelled and yelled at us, they told us to get down to the barbershop and ask for an Airborne Trim. Sure enough, it got buzzed again! It grows back, so I did not see it as a big deal. Happened again at SF school and then again at OCS.
As far as women are concerned, I'm old school (already declared that on another thread) and I don't really wish to see any women with heads shaved, military or civilian, unless circumstances (most usually military) require it. In this instance, I'm glad for the differences in the standards. Frankly, Sinéad O'Connor (the only notable woman I can think of at the moment with a shaved head), looks better with hair on her head. That's just me though, and I'm an old retired guy. SSG V. Michelle Woods SPC (Join to see) SFC (Join to see) SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
1LT (Join to see), these are my other thoughts on the subject!
As far as women are concerned, I'm old school (already declared that on another thread) and I don't really wish to see any women with heads shaved, military or civilian, unless circumstances (most usually military) require it. In this instance, I'm glad for the differences in the standards. Frankly, Sinéad O'Connor (the only notable woman I can think of at the moment with a shaved head), looks better with hair on her head. That's just me though, and I'm an old retired guy. SSG V. Michelle Woods SPC (Join to see) SFC (Join to see) SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
1LT (Join to see), these are my other thoughts on the subject!
(12)
(0)
SPC Donald Moore
During standardized training, they are not supposed to look good or like anything at all. After training is over, they can look like a human again. During training, if there is a reason for anyone to have their hair cut, that reason should apply to all equally. We are all trainees and NOTHING else.
(1)
(0)
PFC Andrew "Tommy" M.
Sounds like SSG Burns was like my Plt Sgt. who had a thing for the enlisted ladies, I learned quickly there was no equality between male a female soldiers, they made rank way faster laying on their back than any male working hard .
(0)
(1)
LTC Stephen C.
What in the world led you to that conclusion, PFC Andrew "Tommy" M.? Please let me know exactly what SSG Robert Burns wrote to lead you down that path.
I wish you had put your misguided comment elsewhere.
LTC Kevin B. SFC James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4"
I wish you had put your misguided comment elsewhere.
LTC Kevin B. SFC James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4"
(2)
(0)
To explain my response: military grooming standards are a reflection of social expectations, and the different standards for and treatment of male and female recruits is a subset of that. I can't say that I loved having my head shaved when I reported for Marine Recruit Training, but there were plenty of experiences that aggravated me even more of the following 13 weeks. As long as women have the appropriate grooming standard for their gender applied, I view this as a non-issue. Does anyone actually want to see female recruits with buzz cuts like a bunch of wannabe GI Janes? Please.
(11)
(0)
Cpl Earl Armstrong
I wouldn't expect the Corps to shave female heads but there should be a uniform hair style for all female recruits
(3)
(0)
A1C Lisa Casserly
Cpl Earl Armstrong - Technically there is. If your hair is short, then it must not touch the bottom of your collar in the back. If its long, you must wear it up. In my day, pony tails (which are the easiest thing to do) were not allowed. I think most women go for the bun, because its easiest for long hair. After basic, there is some freedom to do other things with it... as long as it fits under your hat. Like a French Twist, etc. I had a short curly perm haircut in basic and Tech training. After that, I let it grow. August 4, 1984 (the Saturday before I left for Basic) was the LAST TIME I was in a hair salon. Its just easier to keep my very thin and fine hair in a bun. Not that I have much, it grows slower than a snail's pace. But, Its just so easy to roll out of bed, twist that mess into a bun and pin it down. Its not in my face, its not in my eyes, and I am comfortable with it. And yes, I still e-fold the towels and underwear. 36 years later. They do a great job of training/brainwashing us.
(1)
(0)
At basic I could go the entire time without a haircut and stay in regulation. And my hair was nearly waist length my entire military career.
Also after basic it takes a guy 2-3 weeks to grow their hair out to have styled to their liking that meets regulation. If a female is made to cut her hair it can take years for her hair to be back to desired length. One thing I always valued was the ability to maintain femininity while maintaining a military appearance. While we are all soldiers and should present that appearance, our individuality and personality helps create a stronger team.
Also after basic it takes a guy 2-3 weeks to grow their hair out to have styled to their liking that meets regulation. If a female is made to cut her hair it can take years for her hair to be back to desired length. One thing I always valued was the ability to maintain femininity while maintaining a military appearance. While we are all soldiers and should present that appearance, our individuality and personality helps create a stronger team.
(10)
(0)
CPT William Jones
My comments did not say what or who should change hair cuts only that the reg should be the same for all soldiers. I haven't been to basic for about 50 years however I have a son that went off active duty after 11 years and we talk and I never saw a shaved head in basic nor did he.cut very close but not shaved. Females have wanted to have all slots open and able to do anything and I think that is great there should be only one standard You either make the minimum standard and are excepted or don't and are rejected. Maybe some MOS cant have a different standard that others but that is for a different time
(0)
(0)
A1C Lisa Casserly
SMSgt Lawrence McCarter - I have been thinking about this a lot. It would be very, very interesting to continue to watch females in the military, and attitudes coming into basic training over the next 20 to 30 years. I'm an "old woman" now; I was raised in a rural area in the 60s and 70s and early 80s. Female children were raised in my household and family to be quiet, quick, obedient, unobtrusive, etc. It sounds repressive today, but it simply was what it was. I can remember hearing our TI say that he was SO HAPPY that he'd "drawn the short straw" and gotten the flight of females for the rotation. Because we were easier to deal with. We didn't think we'd been promoted to General on the first day like many of the males. We did what we were told without questioning. If something was a rule, that's what we did. We were cleaner and neater (according to him) and so on and so forth. Back in the day, it was kind of expected that girls would be raised to be ladylike and supportive of others like their husbands and families, and I'm sure that attitude carried over into making it easier to train us. So maybe the shaved head issue wasn't necessary for females. Not to say that males are hard headed. (I am laughing!) I am a mother, have five kids - two daughters, and three sons. The boys... God help me. You say no. They immediately run to do THAT THING. No matter how stupid, short sighted, dangerous. The girls would be like... ok. And that was mostly the end of it. Except Shealynn. Who was probably an easy child all things considered, but she was stubborn. She and the three boys grew up and enlisted. I have four veterans today. Shea was blown up in Afghanistan. And its kind of funny in an odd and ironic way, which totally makes me believe that God has a plan and its a good plan even if you don't understand it (something like some military orders! Lol) to see that the unattractive and negative trait of "stubborn" in a child actually translates as an adult into fiercely determined. Strong. Focused. Driven. Goal oriented. All very positive things! And, turns out she needed that to recover from her injuries. I'm so proud of her I could EXPLODE. Seriously. We raised our daughters differently than I was raised, to be confident, etc. Maybe that translates into something important in the long term. So, maybe with the way girls are being raised to be today, believing in equality with male children, maybe shaving heads will become necessary in the future to "shock" them into compliance the way it is for men.
(3)
(0)
SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
A1C Lisa Casserly - I was also raised in a rural area but during the 50's and 60's and later in the 1960's when i entered the armed Forces there was only one female Full colonel in each branch of the service that headed up the woman's branch be they WAVES, WAC's or WAF's and that was the director of each branch for women. It wasn't even possible to go further. My Mom's Aunt spent 30 years in the US Navy to include the 40's, 50's and into the 60's. I did find often though as You mentioned that the females were neater than the males and less likely to have attitudes back then. I do know My Mom's aunt though was no pushover and was completely in charge. I don't find that My grown daughter or granddaughters though don't think in an independent manner, they sure do and take charge ! Having said that there is however no question they are females and aren't going to be walked over by anyone. My own opinions are formed by performance being the major factor, being a team player but that doesn't require You to surrender Your identity. My salute also to all Your Sons and Your Daughter for their service in the US Armed Forces.
(1)
(0)
A1C Lisa Casserly
SMSgt Lawrence McCarter - I will grant you that!! My older daughter and the younger one were pretty much opposite ends of the spectrum. Neither was ladylike! Lord. We have had several conversations about how LADIES DON'T SPIT. Camels Spit. not ladies. Did it do any good? No. But, where Shealynn was so stubborn and wanted to do things HER WAY, BY HERSELF, DiAnn was ... well, she didn't have a strong personality. She could be influenced easily, and that also translated to her being easy to manipulate and mislead and abuse. It broke my heart to see that happen to her, because she was a good-hearted person, willing and happy to please others. And then, when she was killed in a car accident 21 months ago... my heart broke in a whole different way. Yes. I agree with your assessment; trying to get people to be team players without stomping out the very things that make the individual differences that make us valuable. I suppose that's the same as raising kids; you want them to be good, and obedient, but you also have to handle them carefully so you do not break their spirit. Because after that, its impossible to "fix" them. And yes, its also fascinating to see the advances that women are making in leadership roles in the military. I can't wait to see what happens with the next generation. Yes, I do expect to see at least some of the grandchildren enlist. I'm still desperately hoping for granddaughters to continue the legacy!
(2)
(0)
Read This Next