Should a 4-year degree be a requirement for selection to E-9? With the military moving to a leaner, agile and more educated force, should it's top leaders be required to have a baccalaureate degree prior to selection or prior to promotion?

Should a 4-year degree be a requirement for selection to E-9?

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Posted >1 y ago

It would be interesting to know from all the NCO's that stated no how many have a degree. I think this is a loaded question for many NCO's. In many cases it is hard to find the money and time. I spent 2 years staying up to 0300 many nights to get the reading in or assignments completed . And for all that say it would be a distraction or is to hard. You can either overcome the obstacles or reinforce them. Any thing worth having isn't handed out.

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SGT Robert Hawks

Posted >1 y ago

If we are going to require a BA to make E9 then I would require a masters degree to make O6 and a PHD for O7 and above. Now isn't that a bit much if enlisted personnel want to get a degree great if they have a mos that allows them the opportunity to pursue it. However lets face facts combat arms MOS's and the MOS's that support them in field spend their carriers deployed in combat or the in field for training. So I would say know it shouldn't be a requirement that's why we have BNCOC, ANCOC, 1SGT course and SGM Academy to give those eligible the skills to perform those duties.

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LTC Paul Labrador

>1 y

SGT Hawks, depending on the branch, you ARE "required" to have a graduate degree by the time you are up for O-5. In my branch, a graduate degree is an absolute discriminator for selection. No grad degree, the chances of getting picked up are slim to none.

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SGT Robert Hawks

>1 y

You are correct about the advance degree for higher ranking officers. However each branch of service allows officers to apply for masters programs if they get accepted they maintain their pay grade and go to school get paid and the device pays for the schooling. That is a big difference then going in what little spare time you have as an enlisted soldier.

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SSG Mike Angelo

>1 y

CWO Shannon,

Veterans and enlisted Servicemembers can get college credit for their contribution while in the military. I am referring to physical attendance to an accredited college, university or academy. The command approval process can be very restrictive with enlisted Service members depending on their location, and job requirements.

If the desire is to get the degree while enlisted, I say good luck because the intent of the command may not allow the enlisted Service member to attend college while on active duty.

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1SG Frank Boynton

11 y

CWO2 - When I retired I thought great all this military experience and training - it ought to be worth something. Since I'd already had my Associates, I was thinking I'd be pretty close to a Bachelors. NOT. I think my military experience gained me 4 or 5 credit hours. Most of my Associates came over, but not all. It still took me 2 years to complete my Bachelors and that was as a full time student.

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SGT Jason Doyle

Posted >1 y ago

The enlisted ranks have forever been a place where hard work and job knowledge remain the main and most important criteria for promotion, not ones post-secondary education. The officer ranks have an educational requirement for career progression and that is where this requirement should be left. I do not feel a SGM with a degree would have any advantage over one without one. I do believe a college education has a great deal of benefits, but it should not be a criteria for promotion at any level of the enlisted ranks - JMO.

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SGT Jason Doyle

>1 y

I live in the suburbs in Canton.

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SFC (Join to see)

Edited >1 y ago

Posted >1 y ago

I think the Army would be remiss to exclude Soldiers without degrees as senior leaders. In my 21 years I have seen good Soldiers that were top notch in their MOS but were absolutely not a skilled leader. I have seen degree holders (to include Master and Doctorates) that made horrific leaders and I have seen Soldiers that entered with a GED become excellent leaders. I am sure you have seen your own versions of this, basically not everyone is cut out to be a leader regardless of education level. Weve all seen at least one Soldier that did nothing but go to school after school, promoted fast, but didnt know anything about the MOS or being a Soldier.

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SFC (Join to see)

Posted >1 y ago

I would belive that in any profession you hold valuable, you want to always grow and improve yourself and those around you. The Military gives us different tools and resources to do all that; however, I also strongly believe that it depends on the individual's level of commitment to grow as a Soldier and Leader. As a Specialist, I earned my Associate's Degree in two years; but I took classes daily during 1hr of my lunch time. As a SGT before becoming a Section Chief, I raised my GT Score and started persuing my BA in Criminal Justice. I attended classes at night, and I'm now about only 10 classes away from achieving my BA. My life and my profession as evolved in my 15 yrs. of service between special assignments and deployments. I choose to balance how I can still have fullfilling home and professional life, but nobody else can do that for me better than myself. Everything starts with yourself, and nothing shouldn't be motivated by others.

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SSG (Join to see)

Posted >1 y ago

YES!!!!! But only if NCOs are given the same oportunities to earn degrees as officers.

Officers are allowed to take a 2 year "break" in service to obtain their Masters or even PhD. NCOs should be allowed to do the same. Some time around the 8-12 year mark NCOs, make it E6 and above, as part or a re-enlistment option should be able to take the same 2 year break, to ether complete a 2 or 4 year degree. Full time school, full pay, have them draw from the GI bill to pay for the school. Keep them in the same post to keep down PCS costs if possible. If you feel you need to keep them honest, make them take an APFT twice a year, same with ht/wt. You fail ether, you get a chance to re-test, but if you fail, you get removed from the program, back to the line unit!!!!! (or chapter)

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CW3 Ian Mains

Posted >1 y ago

I don't think it should be a requirement. I think the selection numbers will likely show that it would be highly advisable to have one, though.

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SFC (Join to see)

Posted >1 y ago

I dont think it should be a requirement, however it can make a more rounded NCO and should have some weight in the cosideration for promotion. I think Deployment experience should have more weight comparatively to Civilian education as well. A Soldier who gets deplyed twice on one hand and a comperable Soldier instead of deploying has a different duty position and is able to go to school what should have more weight on a consideration for promotion? If it becomes a requirement than the pay gap between O and E needs to close. At the end of the day the Army is a buisness and should properly compensate for the education and qualifications of its employees. Otherwise retention would suffer as highly educated NCO's and Officers would migrate to the Civilian workforce.. Look at the Medical field if the Army didnt allow Doctors to Commision at a MAJ or LTCOL than what is the incentive for them to stay in the force or enter the force? Duty and honor only take you so far, benifits and paycheck keep Soldiers in the ranks to provide for thier famalies.

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MSG (Join to see)

Posted >1 y ago

I do not feel as though a degree should be required for any enlisted rank. Yes having a knowledge base may help may you a more well rounded individual, it will not necessarily bring around a better NCO. The biggest benefit to a degree on the enlisted side is showing which NCOs have drive. Unlike in the commissioned officer world we are not afforded time to pursue a degree (like captains that are considered mid careerists). Like wise we are not offered broadening assignments that may help our careers. The only option we have is to take classes on our time. This means making a deliberate decision to pursue life long learning over call of duty. A degree should be like being a drill sergeant, that is to say not a requirement but looked upon favorably.

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SFC (Join to see)

Posted >1 y ago

MSG,

I personally feel that is should not be a requirement. I go to NCOES, perform my job, lead troops
and represent the NCO Corp. How would obtaining a degree in say, business, make
me a better NCO in anyway? That being said, why would a degree in environmental
science make a good infantry officer? I think we have things wrong. There was a
time where you could be commissioned solely on job performance and leadership
skills. The fact that the army is leaning towards college to promote someone to
E9 really makes no sense to me. I recently heard in a NCOPD that you soon may
need a 2 year degree to make E7. At this point they should either raise the bar
for commissioning or pay NCOs more. I do not think a civilian degree should be
a requirement for promotion in both the NCO corp and the Officer Corp. I think
this should be based on Job Merit, leadership and overall potential. However, I
can see where having a degree should have its rewards (For example, faster
promotion).

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1SG Frank Boynton

11 y

A degree in business might not make you a better NCO, but it will make you 100% more marketable when you retire. But what about an Engineering Degree. Tell me that wouldn't make you a better NCO. Business isn't the only degree out there. Most West Pointers graduate with an engineering degree. As a matter of fact at one time in our history it was considered the best engineering school in the country. One thing is certain, if you don't die in the military at some point you are going to get out. What will seperate you from every other NCO retiree? Will you be more marketable. After the Army, your resume has to get you in the door. What makes your resume stand out. I'll tell you, a degree in Business, with a Finance major or an Engineering Degree. I look at resumes every day for leadership positions within my operation, I automatically eliminate anyone who doesn't have college. A degree is a qualifier, you should be thinking about your future - after the Army.

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Should a 4-year degree be a requirement for selection to E-9?

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