Posted on Jul 10, 2015
Should basic training be the same across all Branches of service?
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Not all service Branches have equal standards for thier basic training, should each Armed Forces recruit face the same initial standards before the head off to their Military branches MOS school?
Basic Trainee
Basic Training
Boot Camp
Drill Sergeant
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 112
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no, unless you plan to take everyone's up to Marine Corps standards. We know that will not happen as some branches boot camp has turned into tennis shoe camp. No thanks.
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Sgt Ed Allen
SFC Harry H. - I would vote you down, but seeing as I'm not an influencer, that isn't possible at this time.
Your comment is definitely based on ignorance of the Marine Corps.
The concept is to tear you down so that you can be built back up with the confidence that you can do anything that you put your mind to. Marines are not turned into automatons, but into thinkers who are expected to use initiative.
Your comment is definitely based on ignorance of the Marine Corps.
The concept is to tear you down so that you can be built back up with the confidence that you can do anything that you put your mind to. Marines are not turned into automatons, but into thinkers who are expected to use initiative.
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Cpl Bernard Bates
I can make a comment because I was in the Marine Corp 4yrs and in the army 3yrs,. With my last year in Vietnam. I was in an Ammo Co. on Okinawa in the Marine corp Every 4th night 1/4 of us had to be in the Company Area. We were a combat ready division ready to move out if needed. No Marine dependents allowed. In the army I spent a year in Vietnam, in an Ammo Plt. that moved around setting up ASP,s wherever they were needed. The Army doesn't have the discipline the Marine Corp does. Lower ranks have more responsibility. The army had specialists which I didn't like. A SP/5 was treated like an NCO if one was needed or a peon if one was needed. In the Marine Corp it took 4yrs to make CPL. If you shipped over you could Make Sgt. In the Army I went from E--3 to E-5 in 13months. In the Marine Corp we qualified with the rifle every year. In the Army I don't think anybody fired their weapon after basic training. I never seen anyone clean a weapon in the 3yrs that I was in. I prefer the Marine Corp in combat. Semper Fi.
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Cpl Fred Rose
As the marine that fired the highest score in my platoon on the rifle range in boot camp in 1959, I can tell you that firing at targets at unmarked distances and different backgrounds was much more difficult than firing at still targets. At that time we fired the M-1 grand, which was a superior weapon at long distance, and in a clear line of fire, but only held 8 rounds. In an area like Nam, much more firepower was needed.
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SSgt Stephen Ryan
The combination of all of the best attributes of each branch should be combined into one standard land sea or air!
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As much as I want to say yes, I'm going to say no. Different branches train their troops to learn how to be what they are becoming. Soldier, Marine, Sailor, and Airman values are all different.
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MSG Louis Alexander
Nonsense! All services should receive "Basic Combat Training". What happens when a Navy helicopter on a rescue mission is shot down over an Island jungle with hostiles present? Or when airmen are forced to abandon their plane over hostile territory? Do we simply throw them to the wolves because they’re too laid back and terrified of intense training? No! We force them to be warriors! Where’s the spirit of the American Frontiersmen, those who fought the French and Indian and the Revolutionary wars? The elite group of Patriots who not only ended British tyranny, but built a formable force to be reckon with, all from citizen minutemen. No universal “Combat Training” would be the epitome of preparedness and absolute necessity.
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SrA Edward Vong
MSG Louis Alexander -
All troops are trained for scenarios they may encounter during their duties. If that's the case, let's all become Green Beret / Navy Seals.
All troops are trained for scenarios they may encounter during their duties. If that's the case, let's all become Green Beret / Navy Seals.
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SCPO Lonny Randolph
MSG Louis Alexander - As a guy who spent 20 years working in the engine room I can state with authority that at no time was I placed in a helicopter over the jungle. Pretty much sure too that I didn't need an M-16 to properly run the valves on an ALCO 16-251C main propulsion diesel either. As to the spirit of the American Frontiersman, John Paul Jones did just fine with the spirit of the American Seaman... Nutting but respect tho...
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CW4 (Join to see) No, sir, I don't think so. Marines, for example, spend a lot more time learning how to shoot and martial arts than the Sailors do, whereas Sailors get a basic rundown of firefighting and damage control. Not to mention, basic training also covers things like unit organization and chain of command, all of which are markedly different in each branch; for example, the way a ship is organized is not the same way that an Army battalion is organized.
Aside from the obvious practical incompatibility, I do think that service-specific pride is extraordinarily important for new recruits of each branch, and there is no other place to do that than in the incubator of the service specific boot camp.
Aside from the obvious practical incompatibility, I do think that service-specific pride is extraordinarily important for new recruits of each branch, and there is no other place to do that than in the incubator of the service specific boot camp.
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Sgt Ed Allen
Even though, as Marines, we will pick on the Navy. I absolutely respect what your training is. I had 2 brothers server in the Navy (which is why I went in the Marines) and, as a result, was informed of what their training included and why it was taught.
Marines have no need of learning the details of fighting fire on board ship as that is not their mission. However, we did need to know the customs and courtesies of the Navy as we might be aboard ship.
By the same token, sailors have no need of shooting 500 meters, unless they are going to be acting as ground pounders, which they aren't.
Army has it function as well. They are geared more to holding and overwhelming by numbers.
And as much as I may pick on my friends who have served in the Air Force, once again, they have their mission. Other than understanding escape and evasion, which is taught to those persons who may need it, they have no need of understanding ground tactics.
Let each branch of the service be proud of what it does, but at the same time, don't look down on the other branches because they don't do the same thing.
Marines have no need of learning the details of fighting fire on board ship as that is not their mission. However, we did need to know the customs and courtesies of the Navy as we might be aboard ship.
By the same token, sailors have no need of shooting 500 meters, unless they are going to be acting as ground pounders, which they aren't.
Army has it function as well. They are geared more to holding and overwhelming by numbers.
And as much as I may pick on my friends who have served in the Air Force, once again, they have their mission. Other than understanding escape and evasion, which is taught to those persons who may need it, they have no need of understanding ground tactics.
Let each branch of the service be proud of what it does, but at the same time, don't look down on the other branches because they don't do the same thing.
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MSG Clyde Mills
I will say this, if your in the Army, Marines, Air Force, Navy or Coast Guard. Men and women should have equal standards regardless of sex. If the women want the same pay and jobs, then they should have to do exactly what their male counterparts have to do to earn that Mos, and rank. And yes that means cutting off the females hair when they go through boot camp. No more female specific jewelry in females ears when in uniform, cause males are not allowed to wear earrings in their ears. So here’s another example of showing bias towards females in the Military. One Standard for all and nothing more..... all for the same Pay.....
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PO1 Michael G.
MSG Clyde Mills - It seems like maybe the point was missed here; looking back at this (extremely old) post, it seems like the question was more about content of training, not equitable standards between sexes.
But to you own point, other than serving some arbitrary standard of equality, with no regard to people or societal behavior, is there some purpose that is served in your suggestions? Put it this way: other than your personal preference, how would the military be able to complete its mission more effectively if women had to cut their hair in boot camp? Is it really biased to allow females to maintain a different grooming standard, when those grooming standards are based on the American culture we live in?
But to you own point, other than serving some arbitrary standard of equality, with no regard to people or societal behavior, is there some purpose that is served in your suggestions? Put it this way: other than your personal preference, how would the military be able to complete its mission more effectively if women had to cut their hair in boot camp? Is it really biased to allow females to maintain a different grooming standard, when those grooming standards are based on the American culture we live in?
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MSG Clyde Mills
Absolutely it is, the Females want everything to be equal so make it all equal across the board..... Hair in boot camp, no more ear rings in uniform period, no more makeup while in uniform, same standards on PT tests. Equal pay for same job performance nothing more, nothing less.....PO1 Michael G.
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No, absolutely not. I have found, after many years of suffering, that when you combine things such as career fields to save money, manpower, etc., that the end product will be worse that what you started with.
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MSgt Curtis Ellis
Thus my colorful career, Sir, then only to see most, if not all of it, revert back to "what was" after I retired... What a waste, but I'm sure someone earned a good promo out of it...
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No, because basic not only teaches you to be a basic solider, airman, sailor, or Marine; but it they teach you the history and traditions of that branch.
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Easy answer Sir - Absolutely not. The different branches gear their basic training to prepare them for a career in their specific branch.
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No. Each branch has its own specifics as far as training goes. If their specific jobs lend to what other branches do, then I can see joint Tech School/AIT/(whatever the others call it).
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SSgt (Join to see)
Exactly. The only time I can see interbranch training is if the job is interbranch - job fields from multiple branches do the same job (exact same, that is).
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SSgt (Join to see)
That is true, to a point, PO2 Brian Rhodes. Master at Arms & Marine MPs were at Lackland while I was there. However, the only time we ever saw one another was after hours or on weekends. We never trained together, even on the aspects of the separate services that are the exact same. Navy had their instructors. Marines had their's. Hell, we weren't even allowed to be on the side of the dorm that the Marines occupied. Not sure where the Navy was staying. It wasn't in the dorm complex that we were in.
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SPC Lorrita Morgan
Even in the ancient times of the cold war, The services may have been on the same base using the same facilities but we very rarely trained together.
The WAC barracks for my School at Aberdeen Proving Ground was next to the Marine Detachment. Female Marines were housed with us in one end of the bay. The WAC barracks for the Schools of two women I went through Basic with was next to the Air Force Detachment. Air Force Females were in their building The Navy was off in Bumfuk somewhere. I heard rumors of a Coast Guard Detachment of one but never met him or her.
The only times we interacted on duty were competitions. Beating the Marines at anything was a good day.
Off duty? Well, some of that was EPIC as in don't try this at home, hold my beer, I'm 18 and immortal, I'm never telling this story to my grandchildren, epic.
The WAC barracks for my School at Aberdeen Proving Ground was next to the Marine Detachment. Female Marines were housed with us in one end of the bay. The WAC barracks for the Schools of two women I went through Basic with was next to the Air Force Detachment. Air Force Females were in their building The Navy was off in Bumfuk somewhere. I heard rumors of a Coast Guard Detachment of one but never met him or her.
The only times we interacted on duty were competitions. Beating the Marines at anything was a good day.
Off duty? Well, some of that was EPIC as in don't try this at home, hold my beer, I'm 18 and immortal, I'm never telling this story to my grandchildren, epic.
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The type of training needs to be related to the expectations that each branch has for their members. For example, I don't think sending Airmen to Paris Island style marine boot camp makes any sense
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No.
As a trainer for almost all of my Army career and someone that had been exposed to all of the services' basic training through family service, the training needs to reflect the individual needs of the particular service.
Each service provides a different primary function to the fight, one size fits all would not apply.
As a trainer for almost all of my Army career and someone that had been exposed to all of the services' basic training through family service, the training needs to reflect the individual needs of the particular service.
Each service provides a different primary function to the fight, one size fits all would not apply.
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I think EVERY branch should require the same "fitness" scores only.
Everything else training wise...absolutely NOT
Everything else training wise...absolutely NOT
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CPO David Sullivan
Be careful what you wish for... Marine Corps Fitness scores are high and I for one don't want the Marines down graded...
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SSgt (Join to see)
How is keeping Marine fitness scores in place "downgrading" the marines? I see it as other branches looking to improve and be like the marines...again in fitness scores only. Me being in AF I want to learn MY job and MY history but know that everyone across branches can keep up. Just my 2 cents.
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Smaller countries have tried this approach with conscripts. The initial phase is where people are assigned the branch they will be in. As an foreigner and a trainer, my experiance with the conscripts was that it was a flawed system as the guys did not get to choose their branch and had little incentive to do their best. Rather than arriving for the branch specific training with a motivated attitude, they were beat down and difficult to motivate. It could be that conscription had a lot to do with the issues I saw though.
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I went to boot camp the day after I graduated HS, following a year of football and wrestling, and I laughed at the physical stuff. Leaving out the whole SEALS question, however, it was more than enough to prepare a person to work on ships. I'm not sure sailors would need Marine-level boot camp.
And I'm pretty sure everyone laughs at AF boot...probably even AF types. *Ducks and runs*.
Plus, Boot teaches the traditions of each service. And I know how important Naval tradition is to me, so I imagine it's the same for each other service's members. I wouldn't want to give that up.
And I'm pretty sure everyone laughs at AF boot...probably even AF types. *Ducks and runs*.
Plus, Boot teaches the traditions of each service. And I know how important Naval tradition is to me, so I imagine it's the same for each other service's members. I wouldn't want to give that up.
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No, Why? Because each branch of service is unique and have different missions and capabilities that each new recruit will have to learn from their Drill Instructors and their branches history and how they can adapt and over come their own fears. JK
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After my experience in USAF basic military training (1988)- I think they should. There was not near enough physical training, and I suffered for it later in my AF service. I know they have changed it up now, but I think it needed it be a little more warrior-based, and a little less 341 based.
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Nope. What does the Army, Air Force or Marine Corps know about the Navy? Basic Training has to be service specific. They don't know how to stop flooding or put out a fire at sea. I wouldn't trust another branch of service's training. Not when my life is on the line.
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CW4 (Join to see)
I know many Army Watercraft Transportation units that would fight you on that argument about flood prevention and reaction and of course, fire protection or any kind of seaward hazard that may come up.
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Training should be based on the predominate needs of the service. We don't all do the same job so we shouldn't all train to the same standards, however that doesn't mean that we don't all need to be physically fit.
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Every branch should make sure the recruits are marksmen and well versed in handling weapons. You never know where your next assignment, TDY, or deployment my take you and what is waiting. This might save your life and others. Yes, even Air Force.....smh. As the father-in-law of a Marine SDI, been there seen that. They run to much.
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