Posted on Jan 10, 2015
Should Cyber Warriors be exempt from combat training?
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The commander of the US Army Combined Arms Center, LTG Brown said, "They grew up on Google and wear ponytails. We need to look at ways to bring them into the Army without necessarily going through the same training procedures as our combat troops."
Should we make exemptions for cyber soldiers or should all soldiers be expected to conduct combat training? Should these soldier be required to qualify with weapons and pass the APFT?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/11289977/Google-generation-US-Army-cyber-warriors-may-be-excused-combat-training.html
Should we make exemptions for cyber soldiers or should all soldiers be expected to conduct combat training? Should these soldier be required to qualify with weapons and pass the APFT?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/11289977/Google-generation-US-Army-cyber-warriors-may-be-excused-combat-training.html
Posted in these groups: 
Cyber
Basic Combat Training (BCT)
Cyber Basic Combat Training (BCT)
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 26
If we have them skip the combat training, then i would not consider them soldiers. simply contractors. if they want them to wear the uniform then they need to go thru everything the rest of us did
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SSG Rob Cline
MSG (Join to see) They wear our uniforms... It just has CONTRACTOR instead of US ARMY on it
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As a cyber type guy, I will put this out there. I completely agree with this part of the article.
"Analysts have warned that the common military career of rotating through many jobs could also harm attempts to build up deep specialist expertise in the area.
Thomas Rid, a reader in War Studies at King's College in London, said: “To build up the skill set needed to be considered a good operator in this space, you need a lot of exposure to the technical side. It’s difficult to rotate into very different positions as you would usually do in a military career.”
Cyber is one of those field that within the military you get promoted out of being "operational" by the E6 level for most units. PCSing to different units with different missions starts that learning cycle all over again. If there was a field that would benefit from bringing back the "specialist 4-7" ranks, cyber is it.
"Analysts have warned that the common military career of rotating through many jobs could also harm attempts to build up deep specialist expertise in the area.
Thomas Rid, a reader in War Studies at King's College in London, said: “To build up the skill set needed to be considered a good operator in this space, you need a lot of exposure to the technical side. It’s difficult to rotate into very different positions as you would usually do in a military career.”
Cyber is one of those field that within the military you get promoted out of being "operational" by the E6 level for most units. PCSing to different units with different missions starts that learning cycle all over again. If there was a field that would benefit from bringing back the "specialist 4-7" ranks, cyber is it.
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SGT (Join to see)
As someone who has worked in IT or cyber if you want to call it that for the last 25 years in the civilian world, normally IT engineers change jobs every 2 to 5 years anyway for pay considerations. So, the aspect of the learning cycle is a constant in the IT world anyway. Technology changes at the speed of light really and it in a constant learning cycle if you expect to make this a career. But, if they want to be enlisted in the Military, there is no reason they should not go through the same training as everyone else, as every person enlisted in the Army is at the basic level a grunt and is expected to be able to defend.
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SSG Roy Neve
SGT (Join to see) Well stated. If individuals are contractors, DOD Civilians or another group of civilians that are contributing to the total force they should not be trained as individual soldiers.
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MSgt Harry Thomas Sr.
No way! Warriors is who we are, MOS is what we do... Warrior Training should never stop! Cyber Warrior? Hilarious!!!
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Well, why not just pay them as private contractors and avoid the question of exemption? Why do they need to enlist in the first place?
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SGT (Join to see)
SGT Tyler G. is spot on with this. The DoD is looking to (rightfully in my opinion) cut costs. One way to do that is cutting contractors and using the enlisted Soldiers already available who are already trained for a fraction of the cost. Honestly, I can't blame them; it makes sense.
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SP5 Michael Rathbun
Over and above the pay issue, I would like to have such persons cemented into the military chain of command and subject to the same constraints and requirements as anybody else who pulls a trigger or lanyard, or who types mystic words of power on a keyboard in a nicely air-conditioned facility.
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SSG (Join to see)
There is a space between military and contractor known as DoD civilian... pay is not equivalent to what someone in the corporate world would earn, however in exchange they are given good benefits, stability and opportunities for training that make up for the relatively (relative to corporate world, not military) low pay.
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SSG Kenneth Lanning
A Soldier costs A LOT more to the government than a contractor or DoD civilian does; training, BAS/BAQ, health benefits, mandatory training and travel, ranges, personnel services requirements...why do you think many posts have gone for contractors in lieu of MP's, PSB, etc? Yeah, they have more command/control over the Soldier (frikkin' act of congress to get rid of a bad DA civilian), but believe it or not they do cost more to maintain.
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Interesting... That depends on where they are and what they do. If they are going into theater, then thy need to be full fledged Soldiers First. If they are working from a bunker or vault in the US... then that is different... In the later case, that is why we have DA Civilians and Contractors.
Many cyber agencies in the Federal Government use young wiz-kid contractors to execute all the technical stuff.
If they are Soldiers... then we all live by the same standards.
Many cyber agencies in the Federal Government use young wiz-kid contractors to execute all the technical stuff.
If they are Soldiers... then we all live by the same standards.
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SSG Kenneth Lanning
If we exempt them from combat training, it would pave a great trail for wounded warriors to continue to serve...
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First of, a soldier PRIMARY mission is to be able to pick up a weapon at any given time to not only defend the soldiers to their left and right but also to exterminate the threat that is putting them in harms way. Their second job is their MOS. If exceptions are made for "cyber warriors" then I believe they should not be given the title of soldier and should not wear the uniform that I proudly wear everyday. The answer is simple. Make an opening for them to be an attachment to the Army. Standards should be kept, not exempted!
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SSG (Join to see)
A couple of my buddies have them and I drive them from time to time and I'm in love with them, SGT (Join to see).
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In a word .. No.
All soldiers, regardless of MOS, should possess the basic combat skills currently required. If not, they should be contractors, not military.
I remember someone telling me once that one of the missions of the Division Band was to assist in providing security for the Division Headquarters. As the Secretary of the General Staff of the 1st Infantry Division ("Big Red One"), I told the bandmaster that I expected his flute player to "wrap barbed wire around her flute and stick it up the enemy's ass", if that is what it took to ensure security was maintained.
We do not need pseudo-military personnel. Be military or be civilian.
All soldiers, regardless of MOS, should possess the basic combat skills currently required. If not, they should be contractors, not military.
I remember someone telling me once that one of the missions of the Division Band was to assist in providing security for the Division Headquarters. As the Secretary of the General Staff of the 1st Infantry Division ("Big Red One"), I told the bandmaster that I expected his flute player to "wrap barbed wire around her flute and stick it up the enemy's ass", if that is what it took to ensure security was maintained.
We do not need pseudo-military personnel. Be military or be civilian.
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MSG John Wirts
I think all military should have basic training and have at least a familiarization of the use of pistols, rifles and grenades. There is no where in the world safe from radical muslims, or North Korean fanatics. So everyone in the military must be able to defend themselves and their battle buddies. I had a former unit member who joined the Navy became a corpsman, was assigned to a Marine company, he had his red cross brossard and helmet his aid kit and an M-16 with full combat load. That's why he came into my unit, he made out alive.
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There may be something to be said for this idea, SSG (Join to see). Maybe a sort of MAVNI program for people who can bring cyber and other expertise to the military, but will never see actual combat. I could get behind this idea (if I had a vote).
On a separate note, even with the expertise, in my opinion it's policy and legal issues that are stopping us from winning the cyber war. We have a self-imposed set of Geneva Conventions in cyberspace, and China, Russia, Iran, and North Korea do not. In other words, we're fighting with one hand tied behind our back.
On a separate note, even with the expertise, in my opinion it's policy and legal issues that are stopping us from winning the cyber war. We have a self-imposed set of Geneva Conventions in cyberspace, and China, Russia, Iran, and North Korea do not. In other words, we're fighting with one hand tied behind our back.
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Get a job with a contractor firm. Then they can wear the uniform without ARMY on it. If they're in the Army, then training is the same!
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