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Posted on Jun 20, 2015
Should NCOs inspect barracks during the weekend?
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Barracks inspections in USAEUR are now required daily. Is this too intrusive? How deep should the inspection go and at what times?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 357
So all in favor of these inspections, with the justification that its young soldiers who would not take care of or neglect the barracks, do you believe we should inspect the housing for married soldiers for the exact same reasons? I bet you don't, because this would impact you directly.
What about those older 'new' soldiers that are in their 30's but still live in the barracks due to regulations?
While I don't disagree with the need to check on the facilities periodically, I believe there is a double standard in living that isolates single soldiers and only fosters contempt towards leadership.
If married soldiers quarters were to be inspected in the same manner, I bet those currently in favor, would have a much different opinion on the matter.
What about those older 'new' soldiers that are in their 30's but still live in the barracks due to regulations?
While I don't disagree with the need to check on the facilities periodically, I believe there is a double standard in living that isolates single soldiers and only fosters contempt towards leadership.
If married soldiers quarters were to be inspected in the same manner, I bet those currently in favor, would have a much different opinion on the matter.
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CW2 Donald Loughrey
Sgt Charles Welling - As a retired Soldier and proud to have been one I have to say I agree with you Sgt but don't paint the entire Army with such a broad brush. It's changed since my time in service but there are plenty of hardcorps troops out there who know what the real deal is. As a contractor now I work Part Time for the Marine Corps at 39 Palms and I can dig the chiding and good natured rivalry, but lets not get mean spirited. We all bleed red.
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CW2 Donald Loughrey
That argument is as old as the adage...."If the Army wanted you to have a family, it would issue you one!" The fact is that the Commander can impose inspections on family quarters and if he believes a Soldier isn't performing satisfactorily, he can revoke the privilege of living off post or in quarters and put the soldier in the barracks. An arcane measure but it is (or at least was) authorized. You live in the barracks, you take what comes with it. If it seems unfair well so is life and warfare. they say a "bitching soldier is a happy soldier" so if occasional or daily inspections are the major problem, life must be going well. All things are temporary. You can wait out your time and ETS, or find a mate and earn the privilege of living off post or on quarters, or just drive on. Its the Army/military...its SUPPOSED to suck sometimes.
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Sgt Charles Welling
CW2 Donald Loughrey - I paint the Army as it presents itself to me. The Army has had fine men and women in it yet something fundamental has changed because I do see silly, seemingly liberal inspired nonsense on this site from USA personnel. Additionally, it was the nonsense I saw in the Army while in Army uniform that made me seek a lateral transfer from Army to US Marines, I got it, lived it and saw in undeniable terms...………….. the Marine Corps is special and does not tolerate bullshit. THAT is the bothersome element of what I see here, how on earth can a military function with so much distracting crap? The simple answer is...………… it can't, it is a break down in order, discipline and respect not to mention it costs money, money the military has to beg for from politicians of all things. MAYBE that is a foundational reason the USA has undertaken a study to assess why the Marine Corps dramatically out performs it day in and day out. Not meaning to be harshly critical, meaning to express what I know and feel.
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CW2 Donald Loughrey
Fair enough. We all have our beliefs. I did 22 years in the Army and spent time in all types of units. I saw typical Army BS that occurs and I've heard that its the same BS that all Services experience from time to time. Glad the Marines gave you what you couldn't find in the Army. We can agree to disagree. Have a good Thanksgiving.
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Try making your check during the time that the Soldiers are not taken off guard, especially on the weekend, go in at about 1700, 1800 or even 1900. No need to do room checks, just make sure you check in, but while there see how your Soldiers are living, check the laundry room and if you have an at-risk Soldier it is worth making sure they are doing ok, make sure the leadership that lives in the barracks know when you will be there as well.....you don't have to go in disrupting peoples lives to get across that you are there to check on the barracks.
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SFC Dennis A.
I never did what I would call an inspection on the weekends and off duty times. But I would walk through the common areas once and a while. I know from my time of being a young soldier living in the barracks some times things happen and action needs to be taken sooner than later. I once walked into the barracks and had several soldiers confront me because about 8 of 10 washers were broken. We contact the Supply Sergeant and got a repairman in by Saturday afternoon which allowed them to get things done without having to go down town.
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SSG Michael Langley
SFC Don Ward - MY wife pullled 24 hour CQ duty at Kelber as a SGT in 4th Trans GP HHC and checked all floors regularly in 1981. The stairs were a bit of a challenge as she was eight months pregnant, but duty was duty.
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CPL (Join to see)
You can't possibly be a CSM. What you're saying makes sense and in all my years in the service I've only seen one CSM that was sensible.
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PO1 Dennis Herdina
Never had in my first hitch in the USAF. 1ST Sgt NEVER inspected on weekends. Inspection were on Friday..maybe once a quarter. We are talking late 60s and early 70s here and I was stationed in England. Daily barracks checks were regarded as over the top. The guys worked in different specialties and different shifts. Disturbing sleeping troops was simply not on for the 1st Sgt. At any given time and day anything between 100 to 200 guys were on their sleep cycles (barracks held 300). In the 20 years I was in Navy we had 1 barracks inspection. I served most of my Navy time with the Marines aas a corpsman. I was ready for the first inspection...inspecting MC Sgt Maj said what the hell are you doing Doc? I told him why and he said you ARE supposed to inspect barracks for sanitation...were their any problems? I SAID No and he said then get out of my sight Doc never stood another barracks inspection either Sgt Maj was VERY explicit and my Chief told me the same thing when he found out what had happened.
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I think the bigger question is WHY is it necessary to do daily barracks checks? Seems like there may be underlying problems that need to be addressed first. Without knowing why the daily checks were implemented, it's impossible to analyze the situation.
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SSG Roger Hampton
The original thread was about USAEUR. I was stationed in Downs Barracks
(Germany) when Single Soldier Initiative (SSI) was instituted by GEN Saint. Basically there was this plan to not allow NCOs into the soldiers Barracks. They went as far as kicking me out when i made SGT. I moved into a closet in the NCO barracks! So It Seems this return of inspecting the troop barracks on weekends must be a result of the SSI not working out as a good method for troop quarters cleanliness/maintenance and Order. Later in my career as an NCO I think being able to check in, casually on the troops over the weekend just showed that the leadership gave a damn about them and their health/welfare.
(Germany) when Single Soldier Initiative (SSI) was instituted by GEN Saint. Basically there was this plan to not allow NCOs into the soldiers Barracks. They went as far as kicking me out when i made SGT. I moved into a closet in the NCO barracks! So It Seems this return of inspecting the troop barracks on weekends must be a result of the SSI not working out as a good method for troop quarters cleanliness/maintenance and Order. Later in my career as an NCO I think being able to check in, casually on the troops over the weekend just showed that the leadership gave a damn about them and their health/welfare.
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PO1 Jim Spencer
Either that or there's someone in the Chain of Command who let power go to their head. Happens a lot. Some mid range O gets a hair up their ass and suddenly there's a regulation making the Enlisted personnel's life miserable. Usually the people higher up the Chain have no idea what's going on.
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PO3 Pamala McBrayer
Safety and security. make sure watchstanders are doing their job, no unauthorized persons in unauthorized areas, no unsafe conditions (fire/electrical /other hazards). A general walkthru to make sure it isn’t allowed to become a pigsty.
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I completely disagree with doing these daily. Periodically yes. Sure as heck not daily. These Soldiers are adults, not children. The more we treat them like children the more they will ACT as children.
Secondly, remind me what the purpose of CQ and Staff Duty is then? They are already doing barracks checks. Now you're going to impede and alter a leaders weekend just to see if a Soldiers is living right? Seriously?!? Not everyone lives close to post. I know NCOs who live over an hour away. Now they're mandating that they make a daily road trip to check up on cleanliness and adherence to policy and regulation when the designated CQ and Staff Duty personnel are already charged with that duty? Talk about stupid.
Secondly, remind me what the purpose of CQ and Staff Duty is then? They are already doing barracks checks. Now you're going to impede and alter a leaders weekend just to see if a Soldiers is living right? Seriously?!? Not everyone lives close to post. I know NCOs who live over an hour away. Now they're mandating that they make a daily road trip to check up on cleanliness and adherence to policy and regulation when the designated CQ and Staff Duty personnel are already charged with that duty? Talk about stupid.
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SSG Daniel Deiler
SGT Montana Crawford I completely understand your point, however when a standard didn’t exist (making weekend checks on SM’s in the B’s) prior to signing a lease, nor would that requirement enter any normal persons mind as a possibility it changes things. If I knew I would or possibly have to make those checks, it would greatly influence my choice of where I lived.
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CW4 (Join to see)
They are going to be making that drive five out of seven days anyway, it's called work. Not sure how far you live from work has anything to do with your responsibility as a leader.
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1SG Billye Jackson
SSG Daniel Deiler so checking on the welfare of your Troops is a impediment of your Time. Boohoo then turn in your Strips.
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SSG Daniel Deiler
1SG Billye Jackson there’s a HUGE difference between checking on the health and welfare of your Soldiers and being an over-protective parent figure. If an adult living in the barracks needs to have daily H&W checks, there are much larger problems. And while I’m on the subject, if single/geographical bachelors need leaders to check their rooms every single day, then so do married Soldiers. Or is there some kind of magic switch we, as humans have that automatically gets switched on to make us more responsible when we get married? I’ll give you the short answer. No. I’ve seen more pig styes in family housing than I have in the B’s. It’s leaders like you who think they have to breathe down the necks of Soldiers to make them comply and act professional who make them shirk responsibility. Why? Because they’re being told what to do at every turn instead of learning how to act as an adult.
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We used to maintain a Duty NCO, and the Staff Duty would to a "walk through" as part of his post tour.
Should every room be checked every day? Hell no. People need to be able to unwind.
Should there be a "presence" in case there is an issue? Definitely. It's government property, and military has a vested interest in its upkeep and well being.
As for how often, during the week the barracks will "naturally" be patrolled by the NCO Corps as a matter of course, with the Staff Duty checking in once in the evening, near Taps.
During the weekend, an additional couple check ins mid-morning and mid-afternoon just as a sweep to ensure general safety and well being.
Now room checks are done as part of Field Day inspections, or scheduled visits, or if people have their doors open "just say hi" but keep it casual, as opposed to an inspection regiment. It's amazing what will naturally get fixed when you just maintain a presence.
Should every room be checked every day? Hell no. People need to be able to unwind.
Should there be a "presence" in case there is an issue? Definitely. It's government property, and military has a vested interest in its upkeep and well being.
As for how often, during the week the barracks will "naturally" be patrolled by the NCO Corps as a matter of course, with the Staff Duty checking in once in the evening, near Taps.
During the weekend, an additional couple check ins mid-morning and mid-afternoon just as a sweep to ensure general safety and well being.
Now room checks are done as part of Field Day inspections, or scheduled visits, or if people have their doors open "just say hi" but keep it casual, as opposed to an inspection regiment. It's amazing what will naturally get fixed when you just maintain a presence.
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CPT Jeff Robinette
I would do a walkthrough as part of my rounds as the SDO. I only checked individual rooms. When something caught my attention; the smell of Hash being smoked or overly loud music.
The common areas were my main focus.
The common areas were my main focus.
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SFC (Join to see)
I can recall in the late '70's I was with a detachment billeted next to a company that every evening when the leadership left for the day it was loud music and noise into the late night. One night a convoy of Sea Bees came in. Old guys, really old. The man in charge was a mid range petty officer. I believe the noise offended these old sailors and they went over to have a chat with the young soldiers. We later observed negotiations didn't go well when many, many MP's arrived. Seems the Sea Bees were all NYC longshoremen(reserves). They came back through our area and chatted over beer about what transpired. No charges against the Sea Bees if they left after breakfast. We allowed we didn't like to go against our own team but agreed the troops were out of control. I bet the Co and 1SGT were mighty unhappy about being called back to the billets.
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MSG (Join to see) I am out of the game, but I can say back in the day, this was expected, for all leaders. The time and technique is up to you. I would recommend a variety of times. I see no need (unless directed) to check rooms, unless something peaks your interest. I think just wandering through at random times will help you have a better idea what is really going on, and will also demonstrate you give a shit. I think this all goes back to the comments several years ago, in the Army Red Book and Yellow Book, about the loss of Garrison Leadership.
In my day (1980 - 2013) leaders checked the barracks after hours and weekends. In several places I was assigned we also ventured check the living conditions of married Soldiers. Many places I was assigned, I wandered through the barracks periodically, and if I saw Soldiers I would greet them and chat if they wanted. But, as CSM Michael J. Uhlig stated I always tried to keep my visits low key.
In my day (1980 - 2013) leaders checked the barracks after hours and weekends. In several places I was assigned we also ventured check the living conditions of married Soldiers. Many places I was assigned, I wandered through the barracks periodically, and if I saw Soldiers I would greet them and chat if they wanted. But, as CSM Michael J. Uhlig stated I always tried to keep my visits low key.
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MSG (Join to see)
I agree sir, and think the past war has taken emphasis off garrison leadership tasks, such as these. I do notice a trend that Commanders do not feel that they need to visit the barracks, so my CSM has personally requested all of his subordinate leaders (myself included) have their CDRs visit the barracks weekly.
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COL Charles Williams
Part of recovering our Army... and getting back to basics on how the Army runs, and how we teach, train, check and enforce discipline thru things like training, actual counseling, and inspections. As you, in our effort to provide more privacy as part 1SGs Barracks Initiative, 1+1, we lost some things. I think the balance lies in middle. Perhaps in my day, we were to draconian, and I believe swung to far the other way, especially in the mid 2000s, in our effort retain the forces... It is is time to get back to the basics of being an Army Leader, which to me means training, maintaining, sustaining, counseling, checking, re-checking, and focusing on readiness. MSG (Join to see) . Thanks for your service, and what you do. Our Army is great because of NCOs like you.
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SSG Lyle O'Rorke
COL Charles Williams I believe we did get two lax in the mid 2000. But part of why we had to get that lax was how draconian we had gotten with the optempo we had. Well that and other political decisions that were made prior to 2001. The Army does need to find the happy medium.
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Only being a Cpl I have had to do this a few times and I only know the bottom rung of info on it. but the need for weekend inspections is really unnecessary it stops the marines from being able to de-stress over the weekend. Which leads to more problems within the unit than what the inspections are trying to accomplish. As a leader I don't agree with it at all. but if it must be done it should be at a time that is agreed on by both the NCO's and the junior service members, (especially for the E-1 and E-2's since they are the most at risk for being overstressed and falling into bad behaviors). also it doesn't need to be their team leader/Squad leader, anyone who is at the barracks should be able to do this inspection. the best option would be the duty NCO, or have it on rotation for the squad's team leaders as to not overwork every piece of leadership in the unit. and the inspection should really just be a walk through because there is no need to have an immaculate room every hour of every day, as long as there is no beer bottles out and dirty clothes all over the floor, and ask how the service member is doing to check for any red flags. At the end of this I will say this, we signed up to fight for our country not to be treated like children.
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There's an amazing concept out there that really, really works... it's called, if you treat people like adults, they'll act like adults. Again, some good mentorship up front would prevent most of your problems. People have forgotten that the team(s) we lead are made up of individuals, and we are leading and developing individuals. You'll get a lot further a lot faster by treating each individual according to their merits rather than pooping out a blanket policy for everyone that you think works, but really doesn't, and causes hate and discontent.
It's truly shocking as to how many senior NCO's and officers truly do not have a clue as to what a leader and mentor really is these days.
It's truly shocking as to how many senior NCO's and officers truly do not have a clue as to what a leader and mentor really is these days.
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No. Soldiers/Sailors/Marines/Airmen are people too and need time to unwind.
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I remember once as a Second Class having my barracks room inspected by two First Classes. First PO1 opens the drawer to my night stand and finds my box of condoms. He asked me "What do you have condoms in your barracks room for?"
I'm more than a little bit of a smart ass so I replied "Because I don't want my girlfriend to get pregnant while we're f**king."
I'm more than a little bit of a smart ass so I replied "Because I don't want my girlfriend to get pregnant while we're f**king."
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PO1 John Miller
PO1 Tony Holland, that wouldn't have worked in this case as the guy was gay! In fact, so was the female PO1 who was inspecting rooms with him.
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PO1 Barbara Matthews
I'm a former HM1 and PMT. I was the HM at the brow handing them out as sailors went in liberty. I ended up with a lot of extra ones. If they had been found in my room all I could have said that they were "left overs". Just about all Corpsmen had a bunch of condoms around for their shipmates.
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