Should PFCs stand at "Parade Rest" for a SPC?

If you re read FM 7-21.13 the answer is right there. A SPC is not a junior NCO. A CPL is a jr NCO. If you encounter this again state the FM and if you receive any lip take that high speed SPC to a real NCO. I am sure they would love to educate that PV4, oops I mean SPC.

haha! Right!

I would never in my life ever make anyone stand at parade rest for me. It's a waste of time and not professional.

The only time I have heard of troops going to parade rest for a full bird private is in Ranger Bat. Their club their rules. I do not know this to be fact but i have heard that it is true.

For the rest of us not part of the special kids club, I would say no. That being said the E-4 mafia is very good at brow beating E-1 through E-3's in to doing the right thing. If the Platoon Sgt fires off a heat round the E-4 may be in the impact area. This could ruffle the feathers on the shame shield bird and that will never do. So if you have a strong E-4 that can fix "issues" look the other way, peer pressure is a powerful tool.

Lets get back to basics.
FM 7-21.13,4-16 states: when speaking to or being addressed a noncommissioned officer of superior rank, stand at parade rest until ordered otherwise.

It is not difficult, this is an FM and a commander can instill discipline in his/her organization by establishing a standard to have Soldiers stand at parade rest for those senior in rank. Granted you will not see this much in today's Army. Specialist that are in leadership positions and laterally promoted to CPL shall be respected by those junior according to the FM.

According to the FM a PFC is not required to stand at parade rest for a specialist, but there is not a regulation that states any different.

I guess it depends on what grade a NCO starts at in your service. I guess each service may have their own rules on this. I don't think I've ever seen a 3rd Class put anyone at parade rest, although I believe they have every right to under the UCMJ. We're NCOs at E-4 (3rd Class Petty Officer) We usually see more 2nd Classes do that, this is the equivalent to Sergent; so maybe if Sergents usually stand subordinates at parade rest, maybe we're on the same page on this. We don't even see much of that at all anymore, though. It's like we have to be careful to not make people feel singled out and we have to make sure that no one can make a EO issue out of things. It all comes down to us becoming a more PC, more kinder and gentler military. When I came in, you would still hear people getting hemmed up getting yelled from the top from the top of the Petty Officer's lungs, veins bulging out of the forehead and all. They would put the fear of God in them.

The way I look at it is like this:

The FM is MANDATING enlisted personnel to stand at PR when addressing an NCO.

And AR 600-20 tells us that a rank structure is vital for the proper order and discipline of the force.

The FM also tells us that a soldier will be respectful, by being courteous and polite. The same FM tells us that a PVT should be the first to enter a vehicle and then a PFC (for instance), and vice versa when exiting the vehicle? Why?, because the magic words "ranking soldier" were used.

So, with those out of the way, I would venture that a PVT or PFC CAN stand at PR when addressing a SPC. Hell, a PVT CAN stand at PR when addressing a PV2.

It is customs and courtesies, FM tells us we HAVE to do it for NCOs. Junior enlisted do not HAVE to do it amongst each other.

Doesn't mean they shouldn't though.

After all, last I checked a PV2 still outranks a PVT.

I would encourage soldiers to do it, but I wouldn't punish them if they don't either.

No

Well after reading most of the posts on this i would say the members of its army has made its own regulation and i belive that is wrong and unprofessional.

Back in the old, old days, a PFC was hot $hit, he carried a lot of weight. I guess it was changing during Vietnam where a PFC was no different than a Spec 4 except in pay.
Spec 4s don't need to get power hungry until they make Sgt.

In the MP Corps, while in garrison, we would have specialist that would be in charge of a sector and would have lower ranking that were they would be in charge of. They would stand at parade rest for the specialist for that duty.

I never really cared for it, but the soldiers did it. I was only a specialist for about 4 months before going to Iraq. Once I got there I was promoted to corporal in the first week I was there. The sham days ended there.

As a tanker, it's common for a Specialist to be a gunner. On a tank, at least in my regiment, the gunner was a position of authority. I don't think I ever stood at parade rest for specialist who was also a gunner but I was required to listen to his commands (within reason of course) and show him proper respect. I think that would be enough.

Seeing as how it's possible to enter the Army as a SPC, and seeing as how a SPC is NOT an NCO (whereas a CPL is), God forbid if me or one of my NCOs caught a SPC making privates stand at parade rest.

My SPCs exist to to a few things here: assist the NCOs in training (through the delegation of authority from the NCO), to become and remain fully proficient in their MOS, and to begin learning and exhibiting the leadership skills necessary for advancement.

Notice I said learning and exhibiting, not demanding the benefit that accompanies, the leadership skills. If High-Speed Command Master SPC can't properly handle the limited authority that his/her grade carries, what makes me, or any other member of the CoC or NCO support channel believe that he/she will carry him/herself in any manner becoming of an NCO after hitting the board?

I had this issue as a SPC, had a PV2 who thought he knew everything and my NCO put me in charge of him and another soldier in my section, no problem, the problem comes when the NCO gives you the position, but not the authority to back your position. as a specialist my NCO expected me to inspect rooms and walk through the barracks on weekends, if my NCO had any intent on sending me to the promotion board at the time, I wouldnt have thought much of it, but here I am a SPC with 18 months TIS. I performed my duties without question, but when I found a deficiency and tried to make a correction I got the "you're just a specialist" line time and time again. My NCO would not back me up on the issue and when it came time for barracks inspection it all fell back on me. what I am trying to say is that ranks are there for a reason, and though parade rest is extreme NCO's need to stand behind the rank system and back their "senior" lower enlisted guys.

It's, the, army

I realize the Corps is a little different (why is it I say that a lot on RP?).
And, Yes, I am aware of the Specialist /Corporal divide in the Army.

But having been an E-4 I would have thought it a little ridiculous to call an individual E-3 to attention or expect them to pop to just because I was talking to them.

Now, I did expect to have their attention but the POA just for a conversation, seems crazy to me.
But,  if there were some kind of infraction, especially one challenging the authority of the Rank might change the situation a little as one needs to do the correction and ensure they know they are being corrected and the issue is a little bit serious.  Or if we were preparing to Drill....

But E-3's popping to because an E-4 walks in the room?  I am somewhat incredulous at the question.

Frankly, even as an E-7 I put people at Parade Rest if I needed to, the rest of the time I expected them to be doing what they needed to as long as they could pay attention to me If I addressed them. I am a big believer in the "Rest" Command, unless folks just won't listen up moving up to "At Ease" if they are intent on having private comments while I'm talking, then we can tighten it up a little. And the great thing is, I still have another position of rest "Parade Rest" to work with before I have to go full on "Attention" and lock folks up. :)
In my own personal view of exercising authority - I always thought that you should exercise as little authority as you needed to do the job, then, when push comes to shove and you throw your weight around, the Troops know there's a problem and they need to tighten their own stuff up and crush whatever the situation is. But opinions vary.

If that SPC/E4 is in a leadership position such as a TML, by all means, that PVT - PFC needs to be in parade rest. This is also good also if the SPC is on a promotion path to SGT.

Well back in 1984, we were required to stand at parade rest for all Tabbed E-4 or newly Tabbed E-3, if you did not all hell would rain upon you. If the E-4 was not Tabbed then I feel lower enlisted personnel should not stand at parade rest for the E-4, they are just a regular JOE.

What is even more ridiculous than this, is when you have two specialists whining about who is 'more senior'. You know what is really, really ridiculous? When they put a junior enlisted Soldier in a leadership position and that individual decides that they no longer need to do any work. I chew my fellow junior enlisted Soldiers asses for this almost daily. I work just as hard as I require my Soldiers to work, heck, I am probably to easy on them....but that is my style.