Posted on Oct 27, 2013
Col Regional Director, Whem/Ssa And Congressional Liaison
210K
820
203
106
106
0
8fa7418a
First some background, the U.S. Air Force stopped producing Warrant Officers approximately four decades ago; in light of upcoming force structure changes, do you think that it is realistic to them back? If so, what are some of the associated pros and cons to consider? Has the Air Force suffered, is it better off... or does it even matter? The idea here is to begin an inter-service discussion on the merits of Warrant Officers in the AF, and in light of reducing budgets and change throughout the ranks, do we need to consider bringing them back? There's no right or wrong answers here, just an informed discussion on possibilities and precedents. I look forward to hearing your thoughts, so pull up a keyboard and let's get this thing started, thanks for all that you do, and... see you all in the discussion threads!
Edited 7 y ago
Avatar feed
Responses: 113
CW4 Glen Nardin
74
74
0
Edited 10 y ago
This thread has been alive for a few months, but this is this first I've noticed, so please excuse if I'm repeating what others have added. As a retired CW4 I would have a ton to add on this, but let me make a couple important statements regarding any potential return of warrants.

1. Before the question of "if" warrants would be returned to AF duty, the AF must define their place in the chain of command. Warrants in US military are commissioned officers. That, there, is a mouthful. I was a commander for 13 years, from W1-W4. How does a warrant position affect the rating system, the chain of command, and is the AF unified on that decision? I ask this because despite major advances in understanding the role of warrant officers in the Army, that point is still being debated.

2. A warrant officer is a technically and tactically trained officer, specializing in areas of expertise and often employed as advisors to the commander and team leaders of critical units. Warrants are not "3rd lieutenants," senior-senior enlisted" or "cheap" officers for 66% of the cost of O-grade officers-- all of which are the misguided views that warrants often have to guard against.

If the Air Force was to bring back the W1-W5 ranks in order to be a force multiplier, all these things have to be clarified from "Top down."
(74)
Comment
(0)
CW4 Glen Nardin
CW4 Glen Nardin
>1 y
CW2 Scott Williams - I've always said same. It'll never happen... When it comes down to it, officers cost more than WOs and everyone knows WOs will do the job no matter the pay. They already offer incentive pays for pilots, med MOS and others.
(2)
Reply
(0)
SSgt Matthew Ward
SSgt Matthew Ward
>1 y
Glen, I agree those points should be clarified upon reinstating these ranks, but that is not what is in question here. The question is if there is a need for warrant officer at all. An investigation should be made to determine if the need for reinstating the WO ranks is great enough to justify the cost of doing so. At that point in time the decision to reinstate them would be made, THEN your points would be clarified to fit the needs of the AF.
(2)
Reply
(0)
LTC Dick Welch
LTC Dick Welch
6 y
Senior enlisted cost less than warrants and many have degrees so the Army can follow the AF lead and get rid of the 15000 warrants
(2)
Reply
(0)
CPT Larry Hudson
CPT Larry Hudson
3 y
Commissioned officers are from congress. Warrants are not commissioned but rather warrented
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
SGT Thomas Sullivan
66
66
0
True story, down in MacDill AFB, I was lucky enough to meet one of the few surviving retired AF warrant officers. This conversation came up with him while talking with a few fellow soldiers and airman at a "getting out" meeting.<br><br>The general consensus at least from people working in STRATCOM and Missidle/Space is that we have too many young Air Force Officers filling roles that could and probably should be filled by enlisted and warrant officer roles. Especially in the satellite control and missile control fields.<br><br>Giving Enlisted members in the airforce a chance to fly as warrants I think would also be an excellent tool at retaining some very good skillsets in the military.<br>
(66)
Comment
(0)
SP5 David Scott
SP5 David Scott
>1 y
Do believe that there were sergeant pilots during WWII, but not here. Could be a good thing to have, considering the attrition rate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergeant_pilot
(2)
Reply
(0)
SPC Mike Davis
SPC Mike Davis
>1 y
SP5 David Scott - There were indeed Sgt pilots in WW-II. Gen. Yeager was one, Bob Hoover was also an enlisted pilot. Now...to why there are no warrants in the Air Force. The truth is hard to find, but, is there if you look for it. NCO pilots were hated and I do mean hated by commissioned officers during World War-2. These loyal and patriotic officers were more concerned about enlisted pilots than they were about winning the war. Threir complaints were so loud (at a time of national emergency and very desperate hours.) It even reached the president's desk. Who asked "could we not make them (enlisted) 3rd Lt.'s? So the position of "flight officer," was created. A flight officer was a warrant officer. Enlisted with a warrant. Needless to say this position continued throughout the war. Some were always sgt's, some flight officer (warrants) and some commissioned. This social breach (enlisted/warrant pilots) was more than commissioned officers could stand. A sgt/warrant a PIC/ flight commander/Sq. commander! Was, to an officer a situation that was unacceptable. Thus, when the Air Force was formed as a separate branch. No warrants/enlisted pilots were ever appointed. And that is why no warrants are in the Air Force to this day. It is an outrageous social challenge to the aristocratic hoity-toity commissioned officer. What I have posted here is historical truth. Look it up.
(5)
Reply
(0)
SPC Mike Davis
SPC Mike Davis
>1 y
MSgt Paul Connors - Sounds like the commissioned Air force is still at it. Good men were dying in Europe and Pacific for lack of air cover and the commissioned officers in the early 1940's were doing all they could to stop enlisted pilots. Shameful that no action was taken against these sorry commissioned brutes!
(3)
Reply
(0)
SSG Bob Teachout
SSG Bob Teachout
4 y
MSgt Paul Connors - If you knew the female WO - would you address her as MRS. Jones?
(2)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
MSgt Edbm, Section Chief
30
30
0
I have always been a supporter of bringing them back. We could cut some company grade officer slots and move a select few SNCOs into the WO ranks. I think this would be particularly good for Maintenance Officers. The Cons would be based on who was looking at it. For Os it would be changing up the status quo. For Es it would remove some top level jobs from SNCOs that wouldn't become WOs.
(30)
Comment
(0)
SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
7 y
Maj John Graham - I hadn't thought about it in that light, You have a very valid point Sir. You did get Me thinking.
(3)
Reply
(0)
MSgt John McGowan
MSgt John McGowan
>1 y
Maj John Graham - Sir I do and do not agree with you on one of your statements. As a maintenance NCO back in the day and as a lifelong maintenance type I think a SNCO's job needs to be more detailed than just manageing lower ranked enlisted. I have faced a lot of more SNCO's and maintenance officers than I care to remember over technical issues where I had to know just how and what my equipment was suppose to do. In my civilian career where I had a supervisor ( Navel Academny) tell me to change a 40 HP motor when I knew it wasn't bad but several electricians told him it was bad. The supervisor trusted me but he ended up asking me to change the motor, which I did. To make my point, I knew the equipment but he didn't. I was the expert but didn't have the horses to change anything. Good for sometimes heated discussions.
(3)
Reply
(0)
SSG Samuel Kermon
SSG Samuel Kermon
>1 y
Seems it would open up a realistic path for upward advancement for enlisted personnel.
(1)
Reply
(0)
SSG Samuel Kermon
SSG Samuel Kermon
>1 y
Maj John Graham sensible to me
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
Avatar feed
Should the Air Force bring back Warrant Officers?
SSgt Communications Project Manager
19
19
0
I think the best way to approach this is not "Can the AF use Warrant Officers?", but rather "Can certain career fields in the AF use Warrant Officers?" Being a comm Airman myself, I'll use comm as an example. If you're familiar with comm at all you know that it's made up of several different career fields that must constantly work together in order to be effective. No offense to my SNCOs but IT is a constantly changing world and if you're not actively working in a technical position you can get left behind real quick. How can you effectively orchestrate cohesion between all these career fields when you're behind the learning curve? Aside from that you'll also retain those people that leave the AF for high paying technical jobs just to avoid promoting into that managerial role. I guess the overall point I'm trying to make is that the WO ranks may not apply to every job, but in a select few could be highly useful.
(19)
Comment
(0)
SSgt Cyber Transport Supervisor
SSgt (Join to see)
>1 y
Could not have said it better myself.
(2)
Reply
(0)
TSgt Kerry Hardy
TSgt Kerry Hardy
7 y
Well said! WOs were SMEs before E-8/9s were created but E-8/9s were to be the SMEs but that isn't the case. No SMSgt or Chief knows more about the technical side of your AFSC than the real SMEs of most AFSCs TSgt! E-6 has become the SME as that is last rank before you become admim. In Comm, I was Tech Controller, WOs would help as we send them to schools to become the SME to teach the airman in E-1 through E-6 and to help as needed. IT is ever changing and we need people who can keep up. Also some people just want to do the job they are trained for and not get promoted to push papers. And in Comm SME can be a E-4 or E-5!
(4)
Reply
(0)
SMSgt Thomas Yeager
SMSgt Thomas Yeager
>1 y
Well said, indeed. I found myself promoted just ahead of the technical curve along the way and had the misfortune of having supervisors who refused to send me to any sort of technical training whereas I knew other SNCOs who were being sent because they had supervisors who saw the value in it. I would argue that a MSgt in other career fields that did not change quite as much would be able to step in when and where needed and to be a credible trainer; but I started out as a 511X1, Computer Operator, and the last technical training I received other than brief familiarization training was advanced Honeywell operations when I was an A1C... and I already knew everything that the school taught. As a MSgt I would not have been able to reboot a server or create user accounts because I did not have the training or experience to do so. (I was once threatened with punishment by a SMSgt if I was caught doing anything "technical".) I also lost a lot of good troops to contracting jobs because they didn't want to stop doing what they loved doing, though if they'd had an opportunity to become warrants they'd have probably stayed in.
(2)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
CW2 Information Systems Technician
17
17
0
Edited >1 y ago
how about folding the whole Air Force into the Army Air Corp....yeah I'm going to duck some bricks.
(17)
Comment
(0)
Col Lyman Faith
Col Lyman Faith
8 y
Better yet, expand the USMC and fold Army into a true expeditionary force.
(7)
Reply
(0)
MSgt Superintendent
MSgt (Join to see)
>1 y
As an active duty USAF E7 I completely agree with you.
(2)
Reply
(0)
TSgt Kerry Hardy
TSgt Kerry Hardy
7 y
That would be a complete combined force with "branches" called USAF, USMC...etc...
(2)
Reply
(0)
SSgt Boyd Herrst
SSgt Boyd Herrst
>1 y
To the CW 2 (vTS) yes sir gotta watch them flying bricks. I ‘m out now.. and as a result of an in military in duty accident in the AF I was put on a TDRL for a TBI.. I went a community college and earned a
Associate in Applied Science in Culinary Arts/ Restaurant Mgt. what really have me a lot of credits was my CCAF credits. (CDCs, time in training during CDCs counted as apprentice training (6years worth) NCO school, I did re-enter the AF as a SSGT.. and did good.. I had a problem and that was a cmdr who didn’t want to take a chance with a guy with a head injury.. so it seemed my fate was sealed. He even dug back to before the latest re-enlistment regarding time on weight reduction program, a few times.. actually I was only on for a few lbs over ea. Time.. s’body was trying to make themselves look efficient .. that Cmdr was told that first batch of years was off limits . He managed s’thing, I still got out and AF board comped me and still got me out with Honorable over that Cmdr’s objection. If it weren’t for the head injury and if the AF had s WO program.. I think I could have fit in as a Chef that became a W.O.
The Army ruled me out then because of my head injury.. (all the TBIs then were rated as too serious)- it happened in ‘77.
Prob’ly too much readjusting to the Army way of life. But I wouldn’t know until I tried it..
(1)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
CW4 Network Systems Technician
12
12
0
Should the AF appoint people to the Warrant Officer Corps. In short I would say yes. Having a unique perspective on this subject, in that I started off my service in the AF and after reaching TSgt I made the switch to Warrant Officer. The Warrant Officer brings unique skills in the fact that they are not concerned about command as RLOs are, and they are more focused on their craft than the Enlisted. While the reasoning that the AF stopped appointing Warrants in documented it is also flawed. Currently, for a person to be promoted to E9 they are not doing the job from the time they are a MSgt instead they manage people and account for equipment.
Now on to the cons, just as with the Army there is no defined way to treat Warrants. RLOs want to lump us in with them however, we are more concerned with the technical side. It is also figured that because we are the experts that we do most of the work when things go south. Instead the Enlisted should have enough knowledge to get things up a running and we just give them pointers as to items they might have forgot. I recently had an exercise in which I had to bring up two separate sites because the Signal Soldiers were not trained to do the job. This then brings the question of the Warrant doing training (which I will add I am not opposed to but I just need a heads up to conduct training).
(12)
Comment
(0)
CW3 Allied Trades Technician
CW3 (Join to see)
10 y
CW2 Lamont, I too, came from the USAF. In short, I agree with your analysis of E8/E9 performance as lacking current technical expertise, but training for the lower enlisted echelons is very strong and the MSgt's are there to support them. On the other side, the one thing I think the Army could benefit from is the use of a CDC and separation of rank and skill-level, as well as (re)establishing the SQT (SKT). I've been working on a product similar to the CFETP to layout career field specific training tasks, but it's been hard getting people to sink their teeth into it. My personnel love the idea because it gives them a working document to train from.

At WOAC we had a discussion about WO relevance, and my argument was that the USAF was doing fine without them. Don't get me wrong I think it's an awesome program, otherwise I wouldn't have made the switch. The USAF could bring in WO's into certain positions as stated in other posts in this thread, and as a means to reduce the civilian force among our ranks.
(4)
Reply
(0)
CW4 Network Systems Technician
CW4 (Join to see)
10 y
I agree with you that MSgt are very supportive of the training of lower enlisted. Although the Army could use the benefit of CDCs they do have a separation of skill level (again this is coming from the Signal Branch) as far as CFETP you should check out if your people have a METL. Back to the training aspect the problem I currently have with the Army is there is no check on the training status. I mean that in the AF when a person said they were trained on a task QA could come in at any time and force them to perform the task. If the person could not perform the task to standard then were decertified and the chain of command had to explain why they lied on the paperwork. After a few years in the Army I am seeing that the point is they get a solider from AIT so the person is trained and proficient. As the phrase goes “he is a school trained 25….”
A reintroduction of the SQT would a good start to help and I have heard that they are going to start a time in service requirement before a person can get the next rank. There are certain positions that a Warrant would be a good idea due largely on the fact that we bring a lot of knowledge and experience to the table as I told the Signal Company Commander when an issue I told him I have seen this before and it didn’t work then because of these reasons. I told him here was a better solution to the problem. Now as a Warrant the only problem I have is that we can advise and the command can ignore.
(5)
Reply
(0)
CW3 Allied Trades Technician
CW3 (Join to see)
10 y
I agree, school-trained doesn't mean anything... other than the absolute basic knowledge. As far as separation of skill-level, there isn't. When a Soldier gets promoted to E-5, they are automatically a 20-level with no assurance of an increase in skill knowledge, or experience. I haven't seen a METL break down a career field into skill-level associated tasks any where close to how the CFETP does. I agree, at least it's something, but it's not a measure that can be used to certify through any type of recognized association or educational institution. The Army is getting better with regards to MOS training and certifications, but I haven't seen a degree program tied to any MOS yet. I do believe, however, that the Army will get there eventually.
(4)
Reply
(0)
CW3 Jim Ramge
CW3 Jim Ramge
>1 y
Comments are lively, interesting and point out the SWOTs.

Here's something to consider and compare against your canoe club enlisted. Some of the finest techs I've run into are CPOs. By the time they make E7, they've probably attended two or three feeder MOS producing schools. That's why they can do the job of many of their Sailors in different MOSs.

The Army's problem and weakness is that they place a high value on leadership development, fulfilling 'I've held a leadership position at such and such, which doesn't amount to a hill a beans. Sergeants learn in school; real NCOs learn by osmosis. Think about that one for a moment.

Next, because the Army places such a high premium on holding slots / positions they are eating their own. Why? Because the higher you go up the chain of command (mainly in tech fields), the farther you are removed from the nuts and bolts of one's MOS. as a result, most E7s cannot really do the solid hands-on training required for their Soldiers.

That's where the WO comes in, if he / she are worth their salt.

I've watched it first hand from '67 to '13 when I returned to the retired rolls from the WOCC. All the best.
(2)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
MSgt Guillermo Ybarra III (HVAC Recruiter)
10
10
0
It's time to bring them back, especially with the push of focusing on our jobs again. Also it would save the AF money. All other branches can't be wrong!
(10)
Comment
(0)
CW4 Glen Nardin
CW4 Glen Nardin
>1 y
I'm sorry to differ, but "save the AF money" is the wrong reason to bring the WO into the force again. Warrant officers are professionals, they are specialists in what the do. The reason to bring them in would be to benefit from their expertise, not to decrease the budget.
(7)
Reply
(0)
CW4 Glen Nardin
CW4 Glen Nardin
7 y
Problem would be that WO's have the same training requirements of the branch requirements. To make a dual track for the "different officers" would border on bias and unequal pay for same job. That's been a problem in the Army.
(2)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
MSgt Rob Weston
9
9
0
I have always believe that the Air Force should bring back the WO Corps. I believe it more now with these reductions in the officer and enlisted due to force reduction. While it is understandable that there are some AFSC were an WO can not be utilized (example doctors) there are many areas where it is crucial. However, just like in the Army they can be considered technical experts in their field. Below are some examples where the WO Corps will be great to have.

Ops Groups: Finding those enlisted personnel who have an aptitude to fly, the Army utilizes many WO for helicopters. The same principle can be used in the AF as well as for Drones or other airframes. Additionally, WOs can be assigned to lead ATCs, plans, QA, etc.

Security Forces: Especially assigned to units where their is only one or two commissioned officers assigned. examples would be Flight Commanders (WO 1/2) to work along side with the Flight Sergeant (usually a SNCO), CWO (3/4) to fill in section chief duties (S-2: Investigations, S-3 Assistant OPs Officer or as Ops Officer if a commissioned officer is not assigned, S-4 Supply and Logistics, etc) , CWO5s Work along side the Security Forces Manager and Commander as the overall supervision for all WOs

Fire Fighters: The WO1/2 are station chiefs while WO3/4 can be fire chiefs along with SNCOs. CWO5s are lead the over all fire dept. and works with the CE commander as an assistant fire marshal.

LRS/CE: WO1/2 are section chiefs (i.e. lead for POL shift, warehouses shift, etc.) CWO3/4 lead whole sections with their SNCO counterpart, and CWO5 works with the command sections.

MDG: Specialized practitioners that do not require to be a doctor (i.e. Social Workers, Counselors, etc) as well as nursing, and chiefs of sections. While they meet the education requirement to be a commissioned officer with a BS/BA or higher degree, this will allow them the option to be practitioners specifically

I also believe that when an enlisted person reaches E-6 they have a choice of going on to a management track (SNCO) or a technical expert track (Warrant Officer) meeting a set of steps necessary to meet each. Both tracks must require the TSgt has completed NCOA, meets all fitness requirements with at least an overall 80%, and have at a minimum a CCAF degree in the field that are in (exceptions are specialized practitioner). Furthermore, the TSgt must state in writing which track they wish to pursue and be accepted through a board of SNCOs or WO based on EPRs (past 5 years) and recommendations of at least 3 SNCOs or WO, the TSgt may submit to both boards. Boards will meet at the base level annually and a TSgt who has been passed over from the board may resubmit no more than three times. This will allow the AF that ability to invest those deserving while allowing TSgt to reach retirement (20 Years) while allowing the TSgts a chance to progress if passed over previously. Finally, WOs should only consist of about 10% of the total force such as the SNCO corps (WO1/2=MSgt Strength, CWO3/4=SMSgt Strength, and CWO5=CMSgt Strength)

Just for fun: All WO are called either "Warrants" or "Chief Warrants"
(9)
Comment
(0)
MAJ Ronnie Reams
MAJ Ronnie Reams
>1 y
I thought they were called Flight Officers in the USAF.
(2)
Reply
(0)
LtCol Mac McCarty
LtCol Mac McCarty
>1 y
CWO2-CWO5 are commissioned officers.
(2)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
MSgt Raymond Hickey
9
9
0
When I was&nbsp;first enlisted in 1968, the rational was that the WO ranks were being fazed out of the&nbsp;AF because the "new" super enlisted ranks of SMSgt and CMSgt were slotted to fill the&nbsp;WO ranks.&nbsp; I served for 20 years,&nbsp;16 years as a Security Pollice, security specialist and 4 years as an Officer Recruiter.&nbsp;&nbsp;During my time as a SP, I was fortunate enough to serve with JTF-Bravo in Hondurous, there I served with USMC, USA and USAF&nbsp;personnel.&nbsp; There were some&nbsp;WO personnel as well as senior enlisted and officer personnel.&nbsp; I was always intrigued with the amount of respect and deference that was afforded USAF senior enlisted&nbsp;by the other branches, additionaly USAF senior enlisted, myself, a MSgt,&nbsp;included, were given more responsibility and in some cases more authority then our peers and&nbsp;WO's from the other services.&nbsp; I think that the USAF did an excellent job of educating and preparing senior NCO's to fill the void that was left by the&nbsp;fazeing out of the WO positions, in my opinion, to re-introduce&nbsp;the WO positions&nbsp;would do nothing more then add another layer of command that is not needed.&nbsp; Layers of command do no get the job done, having well educated/trained and motivated&nbsp;individuals is paramount to successful accomplishment of the mission.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
(9)
Comment
(0)
Col Regional Director, Whem/Ssa And Congressional Liaison
Col (Join to see)
10 y
MSgt Hickey, outstanding, thank you for sharing your experience and excellent point "having well educated/trained and motivated individuals is paramount to&nbsp;successful accomplishment of the mission." Great post, thanks again for sharing!
(1)
Reply
(0)
SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
>1 y
I tend to agree with what You said about SMSgt and CMSgt replacing Warrant Officers. Once the USAF stopped making New Warrant Officers it seems perhaps SMSgt (Senior Master Sergeant) was the replacement for Warrant Officer, W1 and the word "Chief" Retained for Chief Master Sergeant as a replacement for Chief Warrant Officers, W2,W3 and W4. Prior to that the enlisted USAF ranks had only gone up to MSgt, Master Sergeant until hte two new super Sergeant ranks of SMSgt and CMSgt were created. The rank insignia were the only ones with top chevrons at that time until the insignia was changed by General Merrill McPeak when he was Chief of Staff of the USAF. I feel that the only ranks with the top stripes was homage to the fact Warrant Officers had been a part of the USAF History and adding MSgt to those with top stripes, MSgt one, SMSgt, two and CMSgt three should not have been done. Prior to that SMSgt was one and CMSgt two top chevrons, MSgt had none. When i was promoted to SMSgt I had one top stripe and six under, I had to change insignia on all my uniforms, no because I had been promoted but because General McPeak decided to change the insignia so all the NCOs in the "Top Three" enlisted had top stripes. The new SMSgt insignia had 5 lower stripes and two top stripes.
(2)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
Col Regional Director, Whem/Ssa And Congressional Liaison
8
8
0

Here's a great thread highlighting a recent article about the potential return of the Warrant Officer to the AF ranks, definitely food for thought... thanks SSgt Moskal for posting!

(8)
Comment
(0)
Col Regional Director, Whem/Ssa And Congressional Liaison
Col (Join to see)
10 y
(1)
Reply
(0)
Col Regional Director, Whem/Ssa And Congressional Liaison
Col (Join to see)
10 y
(1)
Reply
(0)
CMSgt Superintendent, Force Support Squadron
CMSgt (Join to see)
10 y
This is an excellent topic. Early in my career I felt that Warrant Officers were not necessary, but my opinion has greatly changed since then. Air Force Officers are heavily utilized for operational and command functions but many are unprepared to "fight battles" on behalf of the enlisted corps. I feel that in many career fields (such as Personnel) SNCO's are not being heard by the officer corps and we need that "middle management" to bridge the gap and act as the liaison between the two. By no means is this a knock on officers, it's just simply a well-documented observation that I am seeing within the ranks.
(2)
Reply
(0)
SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
7 y
Col (Join to see) - I was in on the much earlier end of a prior transition as an A2C E3 and became a A!C, still an E3 hadn't been promoted and still had two stripes. The Airman 1st Class was then an E4 and they changed the E4 to Sergeant. Back then most people finished as an E3 on a first enlistment. Very few made it to E4 in that time period. We had E4s with often 10 to 12 years in service. Back then You could stay 20 years as an E4 but not beyond. I did make E4 in two years and SSgt E5 in four years which in the Air/Security Police was almost unheard of. promotions in that career field at that time in the were not good in the mid to late 1960s.
(1)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small

Join nearly 2 million former and current members of the US military, just like you.

close